Hitler would have taken Moscow and won the war if he didn't turn his panzers south to encircle Kiev

Any good books on the Eastern Front, more specifically the period of 1941-42?

history.army.mil/html/books/104/104-21/cmhPub_104-21.pdf

Absolute War by Chris Bellamy

What's even the advantage of holding Moscow anyway? by 41 most of the soviet industry were already moved to the Urals.

The actual important shit was down south with Stalingrad, Ukraine, Crimea and the Caucasus, who gives a shit about the North.

Major rail hub and would be a big moral hit to the Soviets. It would still not be war ending though and the Germans would get kicked out in the winter even if they somehow managed to take it anyways.

They'd never take it though
It's situated near Volga, so it would be a meat grinder like Stalingrad, except the Germans have less time to take the city while Soviets build up their forces.

It could continue without Moscow, with only lend-lease. The real point of balance was occupation of whole European part of USSR. It was unreachable.

That is why I said even if they somehow managed to take it. Wehraboos always point to what the German generals thought of how the war should be fought despite the fact that in 1941 I think the generals were possible just as if not more delusional than Hitler.

Even if Hitler took Moscow he wouldn't have won the war. Once the US entered it was game over, Germany would never have achieve naval superiority and even air superiority over their own territory was questionable. Even if Hitler managed to completely mobilize the industry of all of Europe minus the UK it still wouldn't have been enough to defeat Britain, India, China, and all of the Americas plus massive resistance movements in remote areas. Eventually the Allies would finish their nuclear project and end the war by vaporizing German cities anyway. The war was a foregone conclusion, possibly all the way from the signing of the Anglo-French treaty.

>Even if Hitler took Moscow he wouldn't have won the war
not even churchill believed this. with russia out of the war, the US wouldn't have defeated the Wehrmacht anywhere in europe

> Germany would never have achieve naval superiority
in what way would germany need a navy?

>resistance movements
memes

>muh nukes
depends when germany beat russia,, a peace deal would have been made before any nukes were

even if they were the germans probably have made one soon after.

Probably the most authoritative book on the subject.
archive.org/stream/GermanyAndSecondWorldWarVolumeIVAttackOnSovietUnion/Germany and Second World War - volume IV - Attack on Soviet Union#page/n0/mode/2up

>with russia out of the war
Taking Moscow wouldn't knock Russia out of the war.

>the US wouldn't have defeated the Wehrmacht anywhere in europe
Maybe they woudln't defeat the Heer, but that doesn't matter when all your enemies are overseas and they also command the seas.

>in what way would germany need a navy?
To reach their enemies' land and use their army to win the war. Also to prevent their enemies from bombing the shit out of them 24/7. You can't win a modern war with only an army and that's basically all Germany had by the latter half of the war, the Luftwaffe was annihilated to the point that its inability to stop the allied planes became a butt of a joke. And the Kriegsmarine couldn't even control the Baltic let alone contest the Atlantic or other high seas areas Germany would need to control to win the war.

You could always argue that if Germany were actually able to eliminate the eastern threat (doubtful) they could hunker down and use their industry to rebuild their air and sea forces to challenge the allies. But as I said, the allies already had a commanding lead in the air and once the Manhattan project was completed it would be game over. Air superiority would mean that the allies could engage in nuclear warfare against Germany with relative impunity. I don't see any possibility for German victory at that point unless some homegrown movement in the US leads to abandoning nuclear weapons for humanitarian reasons or something. And like you said, such resistance movements are just memes.

>a peace deal would have been made before any nukes were
Unlikely, Germany would have been spread extremely thin trying to occupy so much territory, and with the allies bombing the shit out of them 24/7 and the Italians being a liability Germany would have been surrounded just like before.

basically this, the allies would never surrender and let the Nazis have their way with continental Europe, they'd just bomb the shit out of them and use nukes if they have to. With Naval and Air Supremacy, they have all the Resources that they need and can just pound them over and over again until German population gets sick of it. They wouldn't even need to launch any D-Day landings or anything.

Germany had own nuclear program, with 2-3 years delay. It could exist in Europe and Middle East without fleet, some choke points - Gibraltar, Denmark, Suez could be blocked by army.

depends what timeline where talking

if the germans took moscow and defeated the soviets in 41 then they would have been able to focus more on air and sea if they wanted.

they weren't getting bombed the shit out of until 43 or even 44.

if this were to happen then another battle of britain would have happened with all their focus and considering the RAF were within 24 hours of being destroyed it probably would have this time.

>China fighting Germany

The Germans would lose a battle of Britain even worse than they did before with America helping.

They didn't need to take Moscow for the Russian Empire to explode, soviet soldiers were terrified of going up against the "unstoppable" germans and capturing Moscow would have been a massive morale victory. The soviet government was heavily involved in ťhe military and the leadership fleeing Moscow could've resulted in political turmoil.

>Unironically falling for the kicking the in down meme

China was part of the allies. If the Japanese were defeated (which was inevitable, even from the Japanese perspective) their resources would be turned against the Germans. Even if only as a staging ground for a far east campaign.

>even worse than they did before with America helping.
>implying

>Even if only as a staging ground for a far east campaign.

would the chinese let the allies just stomp all over the place?

there is a world outside the allies and axis

>would the chinese let the allies
The Chinese are the allies. The Chinese are a member of the allies. I know they don't really teach you this in America but you should know it anyway.

except the chinese are communists

>Russian empire
>dictatorship of Arab

Implying what? The Luftwaffe was horribly mauled after the battle of Britain and by 1942, the earliest chance for a second attack, the RAF was stronger than before while the Luftwaffe would have had just taken decent casualties in the East as well. And with American production and airmen the Luftwaffe would not stand a chance.

You can't be serious.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_China_(1912–1949)

>implying the americans weren't helping before battle of britain

...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Civil_War

>Result: Chinese Communist victory

>I am talking about the USAAF actually getting deployed.

>in 1949

>31 March 1946 – 1 May 1950

>this wouldn't be a problem for the usa who would just enter unopposed and ignored

What?

They were already there, they were invited in. Jesus christ stop talking about shit you clearly don't understand

>China was part of the allies. If the Japanese were defeated (which was inevitable, even from the Japanese perspective) their resources would be turned against the Germans. Even if only as a staging ground for a far east campaign.

>implying anyone in china would do such thing
>implying they were in any shape to do so

China literally declared war on Germany. They were part of the allies. This is my last (You).

peru also declared war on germany did that make a slimeball of a difference?

More like 8-10 years delay. Heisenberg's group never historically got to where Feemi did, and were advancing much more slowly, what with being bombed all the time.

and if they weren't being bombed all the time?

Hard to say. They'd still be hampered by the lack of theoretical physicists in the sphere of influence and far lesser access to Uranium.

But even in the event of a Soviet collapse, the Anglo-American air forces are enormously stronger than the Luftwaffe; being bombed to crap isn't something they'll be able to avoid.