Greco-Turkish War

This was the war that ended the Ottomans. It also terminated the possibility of a revived Byzantium.

It delineated what the final borders of Greece and Turkey would be, excluding Cyprus.

It caused the monarchies in both countries to be overthrown.

It ended 2,500+ years of Greek presence in Asia Minor, as well as 400+ years of Turkish presence in Macedonia.

It was the proper end to WWI.

It is known in Turkey as the "Turkish War of Independence" and in Greece as "The Asia Minor Disaster"

Ask me any questions.

How did the greeks lose?

Also what would it have looked like if they had won?

could greeks possibly win? by winning I mean something ambitious like annexing smyrna and east thrace

Tfw no greek trebizond province neither

Why are white people are so cringy ayylmao

France+Greek+Armenia couldn't win against Britain+USSR+Turkey.

How the fuck did Greece lose it they literally had everything to destroy roaches
Give me details man

The Greeks could only win with Allied support. Their economy was fucked and their people exhausted after ten years of continuous mobilization since the First Balkan War. They had fought the two Balkan Wars, a civil war, and a World War in that time, and now they were launching an invasion of the interior of Asia Minor. Kemal was on the defensive with an army of volunteers defending their homeland. He simply had to outlast them. As Winston Churchill put it, "The Greeks had involved themselves in a politico-strategic situation where anything short of decisive victory was defeat; and the Turks were in a position where anything short of overwhelming defeat was victory."

The Greeks never got the support they needed. Before 1920, the support from the Allies was only halfhearted. The Brits were only using the Greeks because they thought it would be cheap and easy. They weren't going to send a lot of aid because it would defeat the whole purpose of supporting Greece. The War Department made it clear to the Cabinet that Turkey could still be used as a client state to keep the straits open, and this would require much less bloodshed. The Cabinet only sided with Greece on the insistence of the Prime Minister David Lloyd George, who was unambiguously a philhellene and personal friend of Venizelos. Apart from him, most of the British government was uneasy about supporting Greece. Most either wanted to support Turkey or simply didn't think Greece was strong enough to maintain the straits.

The French and Italians were barely supportive at all. The Italians were pissed that the Greeks were given Smyrna, as Italy had been promised it during WWI and no formal promise was given to the Greeks. Smyrna had actually been given to Greece to deliberately fuck over Italy, as the Italians had broken with the Allies after Fiume was given to Yugoslavia instead of Italy. The French fought Kemal because they had to protect their holdings in Cilicia and Syria, but eventually they decided they could only protect their interests by coming to some sort of understanding with Kemal. Both Italy and France were also eager to undermine Britain's plans, and Britain was supporting Greece.

After 1920, the situation completely changed to make Greece's position even more untenable. King Alexander of Greece was wandering the gardens when he was suddenly attacked by a monkey, bitten, and he died of the subsequent infection. Lloyd George wrote, "It is strange but nevertheless a fact that the bite of an infuriated monkey changed the history of Greece." The elections of 1920 were a choice between Prime Minister Venizelos, who wanted to continue the war, or voting conservative and reinstating the previously deposed King Constantine, which seemed to be the peace option. Venizelos was ousted and Constantine was reinstated.

The new government continued the war since they thought they could win and it seemed propitious that the 100th anniversary of Greece's independence was coming. But the Allies dropped all support for Greece. Constantine was previously ousted by the Allies during the First World War because he almost brought Greece in on the side of Germany.

To quote Churchill,

"“All the loyalties of the Allies began and ended with the Greece of Venizelos. All their resentments centred upon the Greece of Constantine. The ex-King was a bugbear second only to the Kaiser himself in the eyes of the British and French peoples . . . It would be absurd to ask the British or French democracy to make sacrifices or efforts for a people whose real spirit was shown by their choice of such a man. The return of Constantine therefore dissolved all Allied loyalties to Greece and cancelled all but legal obligations.”

The French were relieved that they know had a pretext to break with Greece and make friends with Turkey, and the British notified Greece that they could no longer acquire war loans. France and Italy actually supporting Turkey with war materials, and the Soviets were also a strong ally. Greece had nobody and had no chance but of pressing on for a decisive victory. They pressed into central Anatolia and were routed, giving Kemal the decisive victory.

>pic related is Greek economy

In my opinion, Greece never stood a chance. They were the victims of Lloyd George's unrealistic philhellenism and his support made them overestimate the material support they would get from the Allies. Even if they got Thrace or Eastern Turkey, there would be a permanent stand-off with Turkey and eventually another war.

based Kemal is not to be fucked with

A good source on the war is Winston Churchill's "The World Crisis: The Aftermath." He was in the War Department at the time and was a close relation of Lloyd George. He changed between supporting Greece and Turkey depending on what was strategically viable at the time. A recommended secondary source is Eleftheria Daleziou's pHD thesis "Britain and the Greek-Turkish war and settlement of 1919-1923."

Pic related is the ethnographic clusterfuck in Greece and Turkey. Statistics were even worse back then. Politicians could quote whatever study supported their own biases.

>Even if they got Thrace or Eastern Turkey

*Western Turkey

Lots of typos, sorry.

I would also recommend checking out Lloyd George's "Memoirs of the Peace Conference." He devotes several chapters to the Greek fiasco. It shows his mindset for why he supported Greece. It is very biased. The man was unapologetically a racist and hated Turks with the fury of a thousand suns.

>"The amazing legend that the Turk is a gentleman is dying hard. That legend has saved him many a time when he was on the brink of destruction. It came to his aid in October last when the policy of his country was changed by the revolt of the Turcophile against the Coalition. The Turk has massacred hundreds of thousands of Armenians, and dishonoured myriads of Christian women who trusted to his protection. Nevertheless, the Turk is a gentleman! By his indolence, his shiftiness, his stupidity, and his wantonness, he has reduced a garden to a desert. What better proof can there be that he is a real gentleman? For a German bribe he sold the friends who had repeatedly saved his wretched life. All the same, what a gentleman he is! He treated British prisoners with a barbarous neglect that killed them off in hundreds. Still, he is such a gentleman! He plunders, he slays, and outrages those who are unable to defend themselves. He misgoverns, cheats, lies, and betrays. For all that, the Turk is a gentleman! So an agitation was engineered with perverse tenacity to save this fine old Oriental gentleman from the plebeian hands that sought his destruction. Hence the black Treaty of Lausanne.

>King Alexander of Greece was wandering the gardens when he was suddenly attacked by a monkey, bitten, and he died of the subsequent infection
The absolute sate of modern Greek history

>On 2 October 1920, Alexander was injured while walking through the grounds of the Tatoi estate. A domestic Barbary macaque belonging to the steward of the palace's grapevines attacked or was attacked by the king's German Shepherd Dog, Fritz,[e] and Alexander attempted to separate the two animals. As he did so, another monkey attacked Alexander and bit him deeply on the leg and torso. Eventually servants arrived and chased away the monkeys,[47] and the king's wounds were promptly cleaned and dressed but not cauterized. He did not consider the incident serious and asked that it not be publicized.[48]

>That evening, his wounds became infected; he suffered a strong fever and septicemia set in. His doctors considered amputating his leg, but none wished to take responsibility for so drastic an act.[49] On 19 October, he became delirious and called out for his mother, but the Greek government refused to allow her to re-enter the country from exile in Switzerland, despite her own protestations. Finally, the queen dowager, Olga, George I's widow and Alexander's grandmother, was allowed to return alone to Athens to tend to the king. She was delayed by rough waters, however, and by the time she arrived, Alexander had already died of sepsis twelve hours previously at a little after 4 p.m. on 25 October 1920.[50] The other members of the royal family received the news by telegram that night.[f]

So what you're saying is that Constantinople could have been returned to the Christendom if not for a monkey bite?

Also, what's the deal with Smyrna? Why did Italians want it? Was it to be a mandate or an occupied territory?

Greece had no chance in the first place.

>So what you're saying is that Constantinople could have been returned to the Christendom if not for a monkey bite?

I pretty much agree with . The Turks were willing to fight an indefinite war, the Greeks were not. The Allies were already regretting their decision of supporting Greece. The monkey bite just sped things up.

>Also, what's the deal with Smyrna? Why did Italians want it? Was it to be a mandate or an occupied territory?

Italians wanted to blob all over the Mediterranean and they had to be incentivized somehow into joining the war. Greece wasn't in the war yet and the Allies had already made plans to partition the Ottoman Empire between Russia, Britain, and France. They decided they might as well give Italy a chunk.

I'm not sure if it was supposed to be a mandate or not. I'll have to look that up, I'm sorry.

...

Thank you.

Greeks always lose against us

It's like an unspoken rule

kek you are Greek you dirt anatolian med

I'd probably break your bones for associating me with whites in real life, but on the internet i can't do such thing.
But i can disprove it easy.

Now shoo.

Do you know what was Jozef Šnajdárek doing during the war

Good stuff on the British government’s diplomatic support. Have you any information on the alleged support given to Turkey by the Italians and Soviets?
I wanted to research this a while ago and eventually gave up.

Would Greece have been able to win if they just stayed on the west side of the Bosporus and held Constantinople? Sure you wouldn’t be able to save the Greeks in Asia Minor, but you would also be holding the Turkish population of Constantinople captive, so you could potentially have a population exchange.

>Would Greece have been able to win
see

>Have you any information on the alleged support given to Turkey by the Italians and Soviets?

Afraid not. The thesis I'm working on is only about Lloyd George and Britain's role, and my secondary sources only mention it sporadically. There's definitely a lot of material out there about the Soviet support. One source I remember is Salahi Sonyel's, "Turkish Diplomacy 1918-1923."

The Italian and French support is probably less well-documented, but there should be something out there.

Maybe, but the Greeks didn't hold Constantinople. It was held by the Allies. When Kemal repelled the Greek advance on Ankara, the Greeks actually transferred two divisions to Thrace to make a move on Constantinople. It was probably meant to use the city as a bargaining chip. The Allies told them to stay away from the city and that taking it would be seen as an act of war. Turkey realized the two divisions were moved and seized the chance to attack the Greeks in Anatolia, causing a general rout.

Turks had Šnajdárek, Greeks had nothing to do.

>"Turkish"
Lmao you can't just go making up ethnicities just you can larp as steppeniggers

>n-not an ethnicity
tell that to rest of europe LMAO we literally cluster with no one except for some Circassians that mixed with Nogais.
>m-made up
tell that to your subhuman white ancestors who lie dead in Anatolia. Forgot to ask, what's your ethnicity? Was i arguing with an amerimutt subhuman?

>have twice as many troops as the opponent
>75% casualties
>opponent had 2% casualties

Fucking hell

The Greek casualties mostly happened in the retreat. They had a long ways to go from Central Anatolia to Smyrna. The Turkish light cavalry ran then down.

Had Greeks understood anything about war they would not have lost their meme empire (also known as Byzantine Empire)

>that european subhuman butthurt
LMAO

>Ask me any questions
Who were the goodies and who were the baddies

>goodies

civilians

>baddies

politicians

the turks are objectively one of the worst civilizations.

Yeah, only a 15% gold mining bonus? What were they thinking in Age of Empires 3?

Here is an interesting conversation that Winston Churchill recalls in which he challenged Lloyd George to defend his pro-Greek position:

>Being in complete disagreement with Mr. Lloyd George on Turco-Greek affairs, but preserving always an intimate and free intercourse with him, I on more than one occasion during these years invited him to state the foundations of his policy. He declared them, with his usual good humour and tolerance of the opinion of a colleague, in these terms, and more or less in these words.

>‘The Greeks are the people of the future in the Eastern Mediterranean. They are prolific and full of energy. They represent Christian civilization against Turkish barbarism. Their fighting power is grotesquely underrated by our generals. A greater Greece will be an invaluable advantage to the British Empire. The Greeks by tradition, inclination, and interest are friendly to us; they are now a nation of five or six millions, and in fifty years, if they can hold the territories which have been assigned to them; they will be a nation of twenty millions.

>They are good sailors; they will develop a naval power; they will possess all the most important islands in the Eastern Mediterranean. These islands are the potential submarine bases of the future; they lie on the flank of our communications through the Suez Canal with India, the Far East, and Australasia. The Greeks have a strong sense of gratitude, and if we are the staunch friends of Greece at the period of her national expansion she will become one of the guarantees by which the main intercommunications of the British Empire can be preserved. One day the mouse may gnaw the cords that bind the lion.’

>To this I replied in effect and at suitable intervals, ‘If this is so, what are you going to do about it? You have no armies which can be sent; you are always saying there is no money which can be spared; you have no public opinion which will support you. The Conservative party is the traditional friend of Turkey. The bias of your majority is pro-Turk. We are the greatest Mohammedan power in the world. Very deep oppositions will arise to any prolonged anti-Turkish or pro-Greek policy. Moreover, the Turks are very dangerous because they are both fierce and unget-at-able. If the Greeks try to conquer Turkey they will be ruined, and now that Constantine has come back you will never be allowed to help theme effectively.’

>Their fighting power is grotesquely underrated by our generals
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
*breathes in*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA
whites in charge of warfare

Saved

And here is Churchill's comments about the effect Lloyd George's moral support had on the Greek people:

>“It is quite certain that according to all the canons of official diplomacy they received no encouragement from His Majesty’s Government. They assuredly were warned and discouraged on every opportunity and through every available channel by the British War Office and General Staff. But of course they knew that the Prime Minister’s heart was with them and that he ardently desired their victory. Lloyd George was the only Englishman known in Greece, and he appeared to their eyes as the successor of Canning and Gladstone. His achievements in the Great War, his prestige in Europe, his unquestioned mastery at the time in England, his own resourcefulness and will power, his known and evident partisanship, created in Greek minds a sense of vague but potent confidence. Although, thought they, nothing definite had been said and no agreement has been made, the great man is with us, and in his own way and in his own time and by his own wizardry he will bring us the vital aid we need.”

>equal numbers
>Greeks take twice as many casualties

hmmm

Makes me sad as a byzantyboo...
But oh well, greeks were fucking stupid and incopetenned so they deserved their shit being beaten by Legendary Mustafa Kemal.

Based Lloyd

Did you know that
on 26 August 1922 the Great Offensive began. Expelling Greeks from Anatolia

on 26 August 1071, Battle of Manzikert happened

Coincidence? I think not, the BLACK god is watching and protecting us.

Any pics of the Greek army from that war?

For real?

absolutley

david lloyd "hitler is a great man" george

literally /ourguy

Why did you need to fuck everything up, Hitler?
Was it the same kraut autism as Willys?

Shame Hitler didn't die right after Munich Agreement... Could have been remembered as a great man as Lloyd spoke of...