Without religion, what are some legit alternative to nihilism?

im basically a utilitarian. needless suffering should be minimized and fulfillment / happiness should be maximized.

seems like pretty much every philosophy is about this in some way. they just have different ideas of what is needless suffering, what are the sources of happiness, etc.

Waifuism

The need to belong and the ways in which that need is exploited gets omitted way too much in these kind of discussions. Happiness and fulfillment is often dishonest.

They said no religion

being a part of something greater provides fulfillment and happiness though.

like i said, there are many sources. and it differs according to people's personalities.

There is no connection between nihilism and atheism/agnosticism.

You are basically saying. If nobody tells me what to do/think/feel I can't answer these questions on my on which is pathetic.

>huuuh what a shitty life on a shitty planet with billions if people, I hope that I die soon so I can be in imaginaryland.

^ you

Don't cute yourself on that edge

The natural world teaches us that the only meaningful practice is the promotion of your individual wellbeing and the survival of your offspring.

Believe in yourself, your survival, and the promotion of your own success. Teach this to a new generation so that they can survive and be successful.

Live long, and prosper.

>Happiness and fulfillment is often dishonest

Is the happiness dishonest, or the expectations of the one experiencing the happiness?

>Cute yourself

You aren't wrong about being part of something greater is fulfilling but that's going to happen no matter what you do anyway. Being a member of some ism just seems lazy.

Questing after happiness is itself a way to unhappiness. Elevating "happiness" to a place of importance in your philosophy is a good way to ensure quixotic results.

Happiness is ephemeral and meaningless. Seek something more meaningful than a fleeting emotion. Even utilitarianism should have more stable and meaningful goals that "happiness"

The "doing what is expected of you so you can get the stroke so you can belong" part is dishonest, because it is predicated on how it benefits the power base you are supporting

i had already basically believed that suffering was bad and happiness was good. as do most people. utilitarianism is only a label.

im curious though why do you think a sense of belonging was remarkable. were you meaning to highlight that tribalism, religion, ideological movements are important or what

Secular humanism.

happiness and suffering are simply the criteria for goals and acts. if something results in more suffering then its probably not good. pretty obvious stuff, but its the foundation for rejecting nihilism and building more complex lifestyles.

The utilitarianism guy is the other guy but I like where this is going.

It is a need to belong. It is ingrained in us as social animals and often exploited. I think that is very remarkable. Even the people who hate religion do the same crap. I don't understand why we have to agree with one another to the point of being part of the same category to have fulfillment in sharing our human experience. Not you and me, necessarily, since I think you are probably a very cool and open minded person, but people in general.

The cure to nihilism is having kids. Let biology do its thing, you'll find meaning comes along with it.

Or get a dog

basing happiness on other people is not fulfilling

Problem with dogs is that they die. So do children, of course, but generally AFTER you do. Losing a beloved dog can be devastating if that's all you have in your life.

I guess you could always get a pet tortoise.

lmao I read your reply as 'secular hoomanism' lol

It is if he gets to feel like he belongs. Everyone wants that and they do a lot of stretching and bending to get that feeling. We all do it. The part that pisses me off is that this fact is used to divide people, ironically.

Or another dog!

fair point. though i think some people have a greater need than others. being disagreeable and introverted is probably correlated with a lower need to belong to groups.

i wouldnt elevate any one these needs above the others. id only point out that we should always keep in mind how much happiness and suffering is being caused, and if we are moving in a good direction.

it can very well be. particularly if those other people are those who you have deep relationships with.

Happiness is not the opposite of suffering.

Suffering is a permanent and inescapable condition of existing in this reality. It is a state of being. Its only opposite is non existence.

Happiness is an emotion. Its opposite is unhappiness. You can choose to vacillate between these two emotions endlessly or you can choose to not chase after/flee from them endlessly.

The suffering of life is endless. You can reduce it, but not eliminated. Chasing after happiness and fleeing from sadness both increase your overall suffering.

What if we didn't need to agree with each other to feel relation to other people? I like people that disagree with me. As long as they are smart and honest I value my relationships with those people even more than other jerks like me. I get everything I need and I learn all kinds of stuff instead of putting myself in the echo chamber. I am only poking at you, for example, because I respect your opinion, even if i disagree with it. I doubt there is an ism for that and that makes me happy and sad at the same time. On one side, I get to feel special because I think that is a wise point that I don't hear other people screaming about, but on the other hand, I want people to be more like me. I am a hypocrite just like them, I guess

See nihilism through to its logical conclusion and either kill yourself or die alone without producing children. Thanks.

>if something results in more suffering then its probably not good

That's how you get inti heroine.

Life is hard and success is earned by sweat, blood and tears.

I sware you guys are pathetic as fuck, let's just lie down and pray that makes me feel good.

>success
what is?
>I sware
Oh lol you're just a /pol/ack

Except how do you know what suffering is unnecessary as opposed to necessary? And how do you know the best way to achieve happiness? Or if happiness should be the primary goal of people?

>dogmatically believe logical laws
>not religion

This is weak in the face of suffering

Nice b8, omw to work I guess you are still lying in your bed as a kissless unemployed virgin.

Pray to god for your super earth after you die, others work hard for not being pathetic losers.

never been on pol

He has a point. Investing in not getting your ass kicked in the future involves suffering

I can say this because I have totally overcome most of my problems and I'm a well-adjusted person talking shit on Veeky Forums. He is right though

>Buddhism, Taoism
Religions. Buddhism typically a crazy cosmology with all sort of supernatural shit, actual Taoists living in China are literal polytheists with a priesthood, only Western new-age types act otherwise

>Confucianism
More or less a religion that amounts to something like pantheism

>this is christian love

religion poisons everything

>I guess you are still lying in your bed as a kissless unemployed virgin.
woah injury to ego detected and counterattack launched
/pol/ confirmed

Nice slogan

m'epic

Jesus was an Arab is better

So, Nihilism is the opposite of being shepparded by the space monkey's mafia, and Nihilism is cringy too. What other alternative do I have that can make me feel like less of a confused jerk? I want to know. I have an idea but I want to bounce some ideas off you guys.

I'm in the same boat. Maybe it's better to believe in God (even though you're confident you can dispute his existence)?

>(even though you're confident you can dispute his existence)?
I'd like to here this

why is there suffering if there is a god

Maybe Jehovah isn't God but was actually some kind of monster that roamed the earth thousands of years ago.

Because Adam and Eve sinned in eating of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, disobeying God's command, to which there needed to be an actual punishment; the fall.

Or you can say that suffering is inherent in finite beings and that being is better than non-being, so the suffering is justified.

Or you can say that God allows suffering because it makes Man's choice to have faith in God meaningful if he does so despite conditions that would allow him not to.

That's a pretty exciting story.

Proofs?

Taoism (agnostic), stoicism, quietism, gnosticism (high level)

If God knows everything before he makes it happen that sort of gives him culpability. If I were on your side I would argue that suffering is a part of living in the natural world. For reasons.

It is
The Bible, and I know it to be the case. You won't get a scientific proof tho, not that I think that's possible.
Free Will is more important. Just because God knows your choice, doesn't mean He chose for you. God could also withhold the knowledge of free will choices from Himself if He wanted.

>It is
Heretic detected

>The Bible, and I know it to be the case. You won't get a scientific proof tho, not that I think that's possible.
I really don't want to offend you, but do you really expect people to really take your religion seriously if you say that the proof of what the Bible says js true is...the Bible itself? That's a circular argument.

>google definition
We're discussing theology here.

There are parts of The Bible at least that many historians regard with legitimacy, mostly in the New Testament. So to say that the Bible can't be used is wrong, and I care whether you and others take it seriously, because having faith in God, I think, will lead to a happier, more moral life, ultimately in service of the Supreme Good and source of creation.

How is nihilism a legitimate alternative to begin with? I can't think of anything more bankrupt and dull than nihilism. It's like the the anti-ideology ideology of the capitalist system. There's nothing to embrace there, and it isn't a comprehensive option.

Logic leads to me concluding that we as a species are a blight upon the planet and would be better off not existing.
Atleast my religion tells me that I have a place on this world.

Nihilism will do nothing but lead to a dead society full with people who are dead inside.
Think of it the art we find most beautiful is depicting either god/angels/god's creations.

Give me some non-religious alternatives.

There are none. You have to put your faith in something.

I don't understand why you have a problem with religion as such. There is plenty to like in Christianity, and it can be intellectually palatable if you take a different approach. I suggest you read some of Chesterton's works - Heretics deals with this quite a bit.
For me it's enough that I can inquire into these things and search for answers. Nihilism makes no sense to me whatsoever on any level, and I generally despise people that start talking all depressed, pretending that it's the "honest" intellectual position.
I also don't understand how this bothers you. You can't wake up and do fun things and read about the world unless you have a made-up stance on how to see everything and ready-made answers? That's a bit much for me.
If you just want some dumb shit about how life is full of meaning and how special you can be go watch some Jordan Peterson videos.
That's one of the dumbest things I've heard. How exactly does logic lead there? Your statement is full of premade moral evaluations that don't result from logic.

Read Nietzsche you dipshit

The overman idea?

No, the will to power idea

centrism

This

>Without religion, what are some legit alternative to nihilism?

God predates religion, language, and humans.

youtube.com/watch?v=l5bQUeSjlRU

Worshiping this beauty.

t. Buddha

Nigger look at the state of the planet.
We are killing our only home just so that we can have power over eachother by accumulating wealth and resources.

Put family before all else, because your blood is your life's meaning. Show reverence to nature. Western values are based on pre-Christian Greco-Roman values, so you can read up on those if you want guidance on how to live.

I was a confused jerk for most my adult life. I've recently decided to adopt more western esoteric ideas into my life. This adoption is more like a tweak to my consciousness rather a full blown belief into nutty shit like summoning demons roaming the astral plane and wjatnot. I do all the focus and meditatioin rituals and sigil work combined with more thought towards the historic hermetic tradition.

Scientifically-compatible mysticism revolving around the hard problem of consciousness and the mystery of why there is anything all rather than nothing.

*anything at all

Religions if you define them as mystical belief systems, not necessarily theistic belief systems

Become a dog breeder and live forever

Yes. So what? If we kill ourselves we deserved it. Maybe it turns out that we are a evolutionary dead end. But you can only do your best and potentially help mankind. If you just give up you deserve nothing. But if you don't your legacy might be more grand than you can comprehend. Remember, its not at all impossible that we are the first sapient beings in the Universe.

There is not a "problem" of conscuiusness that needs solving. It is an interaction of matter. No different than a bit of chalk striking a table. The chalk is conscious of the table's properties, and thusly stops when it comes into contact.

goddamn that's retarded

>I don't understand why you have a problem with religion as such.
not him, but I have nothing against religion but it will never be an option for me because I don't believe in god(s).

>Nihilism makes no sense to me whatsoever on any level, and I generally despise people that start talking all depressed, pretending that it's the "honest" intellectual position.
>I also don't understand how this bothers you. You can't wake up and do fun things and read about the world unless you have a made-up stance on how to see everything and ready-made answers? That's a bit much for me.
These two statements seem kind of at odds. I enjoy doing fun things, helping people, being productive and creative etc. but I would still call myself a nihilist. I don't think nihilism implies being depressed.

The modern human is trained to think that everything and everyone is bigger than him, that he is of no circumstance, that life is greater.

Forget all of that.

We base scientific understanding on a consensus of evidence, from the authorities that provide them. If you were never born, you couldn't sense anything within the universe, therefore the universe doesn't exist. Everything that exists happens within a dimension of perception. You could think of it like biocentrism; not that life exists as a process of the universe, but that the universe exists as conditioned by the need for life to inhabit a universe.

The fundamental truth is that you are bigger than the universe.

And to find meaning in the universe, you have to come to validate others' experience of the universe in a real way. This "Everyone is bigger than me" philosophy is a coping mechanism for meaninglessness in ones life. If someone is bigger than you, then they have to earn that no matter who they are.
This is one of the reasons people turn to religion to cure themselves, because they feel that god has totally earned the spot since he saved their soul or something; so religion is also a coping mechanism. I'm not saying there is no god; I actually do believe in God, but I'm more of a deist; until god proves himself worthy of being called "baker", I'm going to be living in a breadless world. God has provided me with food and shelter, but has also given me pain; I will respect him as giver and destroyer.

Transhumanism

Stoicism only really makes sense if you subscribe to some of the higher order understandings of the world like the Logos, and often references "God" in this fashion. It was made within the context of their polytheism, but it's not totally religious in nature.

Existentialism

...

why not just become religious

if the pursuit of success only results in more suffering, and doesn't make you happier, then it was probably a mistake.

i dont disagree that people should make tradeoffs for the future, such as short term suffering now for long term happiness. ultimately thats just a calculation about net suffering / happiness over time.

>Without religion, what are some legit alternative to nihilism?
Patriotism