Classical Greece and Macedon

Why didn't anyone think of this before? Why could the Macedonians do it when others could not?

YOU ARE BOTH, IGNORANT, AND CONFUSED.

1. OBVIOUSLY, SHE IS SUPPOSED TO BE A SARMATIAN IMMIGRANT IN GREEK LANDS.

2. THE PEPLOS DID NOT ORIGINATE IN TURANYA.

3. THERE IS NO "THE (ANCIENT) GREEKS"; THE GREEK PEOPLES OF "ANTIQUITY" WERE RACIALLY HETEROGENEOUS, WITH TWO MAIN RACIAL TYPES CONSTITUTING "THE (ANCIENT) GREEKS": ARYAN, AND TURANIAN.

4. SARMATIANS/SAURAMATIANS WERE TURANIAN, NOT ARYAN —SARMATIA/SAUROMATIA IS IN TURANYA, NOT IN ARYANA.

Is this a custom Joi DLC?

joi?

Shut the fuck up you fucking faggot.

I'm less certain about Macedon, but at least in the classical greek era, it's that they found a system of fighting that worked well when you didn't have professional armies, which were still the order of the day in most of the world.

I'm not entirely sure though why that mostly hoplite derived system still worked so well with the advent of professionalism that you see in the Macedonians though, although you do see more of combined arms tactics and moving away from spear pushes.

>The Greek cities state militaries weren't as effective as you may think.
And yet they kicked the ass of the Persians in things like the war of the Delian league. They seemed to work pretty damn well for slapped together militias.

The idea of professional militaries wasn't exactly new. It was more that it's difficult to sustain such an army economically (one of the reasons Sparta could was the mass enslavement of the Messenians), and politically, as the Romans found out to their cost.

Once you have states rich and stable enough to at least try to solve both problems, you usually see professional militaries arise.

I fucking love antic fashion. We look like depressive scarecrows nowadays.

THE WOMAN IS AN ACTUAL PROFESSIONAL PROSTITUTE.

...

A longer stick

No one cares about you

?

I'm curious. Do you not recognize Ana de Armas and know about her ancestry, or are you simply ignorant as to who the Turanians were?

The fighting was insanely brutal tho
Most of the deaths (or rather, large amounts of them) were caused by crushing of one force against the other, rather than by wounds caused by the enemy.
But yeah, except for Sparta it was mostly farmers and stuff, which is why the wars were short and brutal and not that common.
Had a nice subject about this, but I only remember the basics now. It was pretty interesting though.

THE TERM "TURANIAN" REFERS TO RACIAL TYPE, NOT TO NATIONALITY, NOR TO "ANCESTRY".

Aye, and Philip was the one who actually implemented them and dragged Macedon into a functioning kingdom.

>white subhumans think greeks and romans wuz good at war
absolute state of /his
please ban every white subhuman on this board.

Do you have a transverse palmar crease in one but not both of your hands?

Women like that, probably

fuck you, you fucking retard. I fucking hate you.

The Macedonian style of warfare was one of the first real large-scale use of combined arms tactics in that each division of the army was instrumental to battle. Generally, the phalanx would hold the bulk of the enemy in the center. It was not really their job to break the enemy but their deep ranks and long pikes meant they could hold the line for a prolonged amount of time as other units maneuver. The cavalry was used as the offensive wing of the army. They would charge at the enemies who have already been engaged in the center and break them. At the flanks were a more mobile force of infantry who would support the phalanx in fighting off envelopment. Famously, these were the men commanded by Parmenion in Gaugamela. The peltasts assisted the cavalry in fighting off enemy cavalry ensuring that they could be free to run the flanks.
At least this is how Arrian describes it a couple times.

Iphicrates?

>insulting holo-waifu Ana de Armas
You ugly big nosed Jewish Mexican I will rip out your skull and shit down your neck. Joi is too pure for these comments

this
even in Cynoscephalae where the phalanx were uneven due to bad terrain the Romans wasn't able to penetrate it,it was when the Makedonians got betrayed and there was no hammer did the Romans triumphed
a big wall of pikes could always be ignored ya know

HAMMER AND ANVIL

An actual cavalry wing, longer spears than their rivals, versatile infantry to cover the flanks, and a non-retarded view on warfare.

>They were essentially militias who were raised only when needed and hoplite had virtually no training.
That's wrong though, every summer they were either fighting or training, contrasted to the Spartans who trained all year long.

>I'm not entirely sure though why that mostly hoplite derived system
Because like most of humanities' developments the Macedonian military was an evolution on an existing system rather than a revolution. Phillip knew how the Greeks fought, and knew that they were successful moreso than most of their neighbors. Phillip saw what "worked" (helped that he was advised by Greeks) and simply made it better, rather than bother coming up with something completely new.

>It's Ray thread

Alexander's campaign was successful due to cavalry which was created under Philip.
Persians had shitty cavalry or didn't even have one to fight against the greeks. Macedonians basically invented cavalry charge which dominated in battles.
Phalanx system was also were revolutionary for its time and surprised the Persians.

>people replying to KOZ
>people who don't even know who he is
ryzhknd.tumblr.com/archive

fucking newfags

Uh turanian means turkish/turkic bro.

>Defeats your sarissa phalanx

I really like that dress.

Seems good for summer.

I really want to know that, how did they do it?

Those people BTFO Carthage and persia

What training would that be?

Not him, but at least according to Xenophon, most of it was centered in how to walk in a line without the phalanx falling apart.

>be persian general
>decide to invade greece
>march in
>fight them
>your men's weapons are so ineffective that the greeks are virtually invincible and their swords and spears can literally cut through your men's shields and armor
>invasion fails
>think about your mistakes and try the exact same thing after 10 years
>invasion fails again
>they organize an army only a portion the size of yours and stil btfo you because you still didn't fix your shitty equipment

Only when by flanking it on uneven ground and with no cavalry around

Combination of cavalry and infantry (i.e. Hammer and anvil tactics).

>Be Darius I
>Control the entire Middle East
>Border with rich and fertile India with like-minded servile people
>Decide to invade poor,small and troublesome Greece instead

Was it autism?

Where? I'm almost certain that was about the Spartans not the other city states. IIRC the Spartans did formation training while in campaign

Is this a meme I'm not getting? Why do you call her Turanian?

You really need to kill yourself

She has turanian traits

So it was their equipment?

Also can you explain battle of himera?

Syracuse wiped out carthage

What? There were four racial groups of classical Hellenes: Dorian, Ionian, Aeolian, and Achaean.

Dorian and Ionians were obviously the superior Hellenic races. Achaeans were low tier Dorians, and Aeolians... probably not even fully human, basically just Thessalians who had sex with their horses and Thebans who had sex with their own children. Boeotians were Aeolians, and it is the common consensus on Veeky Forums that they earned their reputation as idiots and child molesters.

Well, yes and no, Xenophon did write about Spartan training in his Constitution of Lakedaemonia. He also wrote a text about training Athenian cavalry.

There are also about 3 or 4 detailed texts on military tactics from the Hellenistic/Roman period, and they give details about training the Macedonian style pike phalanx and other units.

Anyway, there were literally hundreds of city states during Classical antiquity. The Spartans were first to have a well trained and regulated military body. Some allies provided trained forces, too, like the Skiritai from near Tegea. Later on, some other important city states raised well trained forces of their own to complement their general army. I also imagine that people were generally taught how to wear the panoply and charge in a line regardless. There was an Olympic event that imitated this.

While it's not directly attested to, Xenophon's Hellenica (I'd have to go digging for an exact page citation though) mentions how hoplite training doesn't focus on "close combat" because everyone already knows enough of how to do that. Given the rather amateurish nature of non-Spartan phalanxes, there really isn't anything else besides (very basic) formation maneuver training.

>Macedonians basically invented cavalry charge which dominated in battles.
>mfw Japs invented cavalry charge in the 16th century

>SARMATIAN
?
she doesn't look Polish at all...

>Sarmatia is Poland

BRAH LOOK AT THIS DOOD

Sarmatia isn’t Poland, idiot. And by the way, she does look Polish.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmatism
Poles were Sarmatians.

H A M M E R
&
A N V I L

True Poles are Slavic, not Khazar/Sarmatian.

Eat shit

Poland of previous century was full of Jews.

>was

Did you not read the post you're replying to?

she isn't her, she is a spanish actress from the series hispania

She isn't whom?

WHAT IS HER NAME

During a period of percieved weakness there were a few revolts all over the Persian Empire, with the main one being in Egypt.

He had a vendetta against the Greeks since they supported the Ionian Greek revolts in Anatolia.

Ancient civs didnt take rebellions lightly and to support one was seen almost as an act of war.

IIRC Darius had a scribe remind him after every meal to destroy Greece. Because it was such an insignificant place he kept forgetting about it, but he was filthy af at what they did.

She's Cuban you tard.

Ana de Armas

shes spanish but her family were living in Cuba, Why is this so difficult to understand?

I thought the Persians usually wiped the floor with the Greeks.

Was western Anatolia considered part of Greece back then?

thanks

mainland greeks beat them

what i really want to know is how carthage lost against syracuse in 480 BC

>lol the phalanx isn't the best battle line in ancient warfare, just look at the manipular formations that defeated them!
>with effective skirmishers
>and cavalry support
>on terrain the manipular formation was literally conceived on

Totally better. Like, by a Roman mile, amirite guys? It's not like the phalanx has an overwhelming majority of instances of holding the center line against anything that came toward it, including massed heavy cavalry charges. Literal shit on the battlefield as far as I'm concerned.

>Born, and raised, in Cuba.
>Somehow Spanish.

Are you mentally handicapped?

Greece city-states really didn't have that impressive of militaries. The Persians actually did have heavy infantry at their disposal--Herodotus states that Persian and Median infantrymen wore iron-scale cuirasses, that Lycians and Cilicians were armed in Hellenic fashion with slight differences, that Assyrians carried heavy shields and metalic helmets and wore linen cuirasses; Egyptians carried large tower-shields, wore linen breastplates, and their helmets were weaved out of some material. The Persian military was actually quite strong and it wasn't like a multiplayer video game where they were only great at cavalry for balanced reasons--there's a reason why they conquered lands from the Nile, Danube, Don, Oxus, Jaxartes, Indus, Euphrates and Tigris

Macedon is a outliar in pure military power to the Greek city-states. It was a unique situation where it's ruler was allowed to be an autocrat so long he could fend for himself from dissidents. Orators and politicians in the Greek city-states recognized this when Philip was gradually building up power, Demosthenes essentially tells his fellow Athenian citizens: 'Hey, look, I would like to say us Athenians are strong and exceptional, but Philip's army is far beyond the skill and expertise than most of us can even muster and arm; he's marching around the Balkans and Northern Greece with his army year around accumulating very valuable experience for them and recruiting more and more allies where he goes, and unlike any of us, he's unaccountable to his actions. He can literally throw a couple of hundred of thousands of men at us if he wants to and let them die in the attempt to raze our city and there's no one at his home that's going to stop him, like there are here in Greece' He basically grinded his army from a bunch of herder peasants that he armed in cheap gear fighting against a bunch of irrelevant backwaters Illyrian and Thracian tribes and went so far that he left Alexander an overpower fighting force when he died

Still he could have sent an army in Ionia to keep the rebellion in Check... Invade India and then become a true super state

>Back then

Its still is

Combined arms.

wrong. The fighting was almost ritualistic.

Sounds like Macedonia was benefitting from improvements in agriculture in cooler climates, alongside Mediterranean trade, that would later also boost economic surpluses and population in Italy.

I thought the Greeks gave up on that.

>Why didn't anyone think of this before?

They did, but the Greeks were fragmented into small city states, in order to field bigger armies they needed more men, men who couldn't be away form home too long because of the crops and their families, furthermore the Greek system was sufficient for its purpose, defense of the city and expansion in other parts of Greece. The Macedonians on the other hand had a large centralized kingdom quite literally geared for world conquest.

Those legionaries never touched a Macedonian sarrisa. Posting hollywood meme hamata wearing Roman soldiers should be a bannable offense.

>full body side view
Hnnnnnnnnng

more like this

Ugly like the people that wear them

Your logic:
>Somalian parents
>but happened to be born in Sweden
>HE'S SWEDISH
Wew.

... but that's literally true.

Oh, right, you're american.

KOZ is mentally ill, in a legit non meme way
youtube.com/user/ReiK0Z

Different user than you were talking to, and I'm Swedish. Being born here makes you Swedish. Are you completely ignorant?

>Are you completely ignorant?
You are the one showing complete ignorance of the fact that state nationality has nothing to do with the discussion. No, being born in Sweden doesn't make you Swedish, it only grants you the papers to claim adherence to the state of the nation of "Sweden". The blood that runs through your blood is is what makes you Swedish.