What is Veeky Forums's opinion on the policy of forced confrontation?

>Shown pictures of dead Jews
>They must've been gassed, six million of them in fact!
>This is what this trial said so therefore it is true
And it's that simple

It was justified. It's a shame it didn't work.

This is not what the trial said at all.

>if I deliberately distort it, it'll sound crazy and hopefully people will join my cult

>They must've been gassed, six million of them in fact!
Your words, not theirs.

...

he was literally fucking there you nigger
not in the camps but he saw plenty in poland and knew it was a genocide insofar as he could grasp the idea at the time. it was fucking obvious what the ultimate goal was without ever going anywhere near any of the camps. this hubris killed germany forever. he was pomeranian so he knew especially the price in blood inflicted on the germans for this.

>denies something that no one ever says
>people tell him that no one is saying that
>"lol why you doing damage control?"
The absolute state of wehraboos

>btfo'd
>"UHH YOU GUYS R IN DAMAGE CONTROL! I TOTALLY REDPLLED YOU GUYS!"

Yes, nazi ideology was an existential threat to the allies. The war essentially was not over until the hearts and minds of the germans had been won and if they could not be won then they would have to be neutralized some other more costly way.

yeah man we're just really panicking about your dangerous subversive information

>My grandpa's said it was real
Lol, here is what happened.
>Be ur grandpappy
>See Germans not treating jews well
>Oh no
>Sit through slideshow after the war seeing pictures of dead Jews and hearing about how they were all gassed
>"Yep, I knew they were gassing through Jews all along"
>Can't prove the holocaust happening with referring to
Kek
Methinks Thou doth protest too much
See the above poster

he. killed. jews.

Is this the LOL thread?

>poland
Ah, the case is cracked.

>Can't prove the holocaust happening with referring to
What the fuck are you even trying to say here? You weren't even attacking the Holocaust, you were saying that 6 million Jews were gassed, which no historian says.

do you not know what fucking pomerania is? was, rather. you're even a shit nazi

You cannot try to prove the holocaust without making these assertions
Which can be easily btfo'd

Time to break out the ole 'pics

>You cannot try to prove the holocaust without making these assertions
>what are bullets
>what is starvation
>why is estimation

>they had to be gassed to be killed

>the lice meme

Moar

>this whole thread
Fuck

...

in any case it's fun to try and unpack them

>Literally predicts Gish gallop
>Fake document
>Cites ad verecundium as an argument against leuchter
How predictable

>Proving my point
Would you like me to Gish gallop too? Okay. Let's do this.

At what rate could German cremation ovens fully cremate bodies (i.e. fulfil the definition of cremation), and does this rate have a basis in reality? How many bodies were fully cremated?

Prove that the Third Reich was capable of constructing ovens that could cremate millions of people within the time frame. They had a finite amount of ovens, and stacking multiple bodies into one oven doesn't actually speed up the reaction, putting each body into one oven is actually a faster method (because there is more surface area exposed to the heat). The definition of cremation does not reference bones anywhere, which means the cremation process was carried out in full. If it takes 2-3 hours to cremate a body (youtube.com/watch?v=BHBaCZ3slis, butlerfuneralhomes.com/_mgxroot/page_10745.php, cremationresource.org/cremation/how-is-a-body-cremated.html) with modern cremation ovens, does the math add up? You can over-hype the engineering capability of the Germans all you want, but for the rest of us in reality, that is not an argument.

For example, according to this source (jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/augas.html), it states: Crematorium I operated [at Auschwitz] from August 15, 1940 until July 1943. According to calculations by the German authorities, 340 corpses could be burned every 24 hours after the installation of the three furnaces.

August 1940- July 1943 is equivalent to 2 years and 11 months. Let's assume that each month is thirty days long, for convenience. So that is 24 hours*30 days per month)*(35 months)=25,200 hours. If Crematorium I operates at 340 bodies per 24 hours, parcelled equally per each furnace (three furnaces), that is a rate of about 113 bodies per furnace per day, which is about 4-5 bodies per hour per furnace. That is not possible, it takes much longer to cremate a body than 12-13 minutes PER BODY.

From the same source: The Crematorium II building, which contained a gas chamber and furnaces for burning corpses. Several hundred thousand Jewish men, women and children were murdered here with poison gas, and their bodies burned. The bodies of Jewish and non-Jewish prisoners who died in the concentration camp were also burned here. According to calculations by the German authorities, 1,440 corpses could be burned in this crematorium every 24 hours.
This does nothing to specify how many furnaces were at play. Let us assume that it meant a single furnace. That means that a single oven could burn 60 bodies per hour, which means that fully cremating a human body to ash in ovens that are now eighty years old would take just one minute. This is mathematically impossible. Let us assume that there were 10 ovens. This means that a single furnace could burn 6 bodies per hour, which is a single body every ten minutes. This is also impossible. Let us assume that 100 ovens were used. This means that a single furnace/oven could fully cremate a human body one hour and 40 minutes. Only when we assume that 100 ovens were being used around the clock, without maintenance repair, or any other coincidence, is it even remotely possible to claim that the figures were being met. Keep in mind, as the narrative stands today, over one million Jews were gassed and cremated at Auschwitz. Our ovens today cannot match this efficiency. And you expect everybody to believe that the Germans could do that simply because it fits the story you wish to believe?

>Prove that the Third Reich was capable of constructing ovens that could cremate millions of people within the time frame.
Why? Not all Jews were gassed and cremated, many were shot and starved and dumped in mass graves.

From the same source, the third Crematorium has the same figures. The fourth and fifth crematoria have different ones, though. It states: According to calculations by the German authorities, 768 corpses could be burned in this crematorium every 24 hours. According to the testimony of former prisoners, the figure was higher.
Again, let us make the same assumptions that gradually increase.
One furnace=32 bodies per hour. Impossible.
Ten furnaces=3.2 bodies per hour, or one body every 30 minutes. Not possible.
100 furnaces=1 body every 3 or so hours. Plausible, assuming no coincidences/malfunction. The narrative does not rely upon this many furnaces. The story is simply flawed.
If cremation is defined as "dispose of (a dead person's body) by burning it to ashes, typically after a funeral ceremony", then it is not for "aesthetic" purposes. It is actually more efficient to load each body into a separate oven, as opposed to jamming them all into one oven, by the logic of the surface area required for the heat to interact with. Again, a crematorium oven is a crematorium oven, by definition. It is not apples to oranges, but you make it so by putting "civilian" in front of it. Again, if you have access to advanced technology, it is only logical to use it in order to advance your business. Why wait 2-3 hours, when you can speed it up down to your claims, as sourced by you.
"A lot has been said about cremation capacity and rates of the crematoria in Auschwitz, which allows to screen the testimonies for corroborating and converging features. Carlo Mattogno has compiled a list of 17 accounts in ATCFS, p. 319. Following the former Jewish Sonderkommando and SS men, the cremation capacity of all 4 crematoria in Birkenau was 4,000 - 10,000 corpses per day, which was achieved by loading each muffle opening with 2 - 5 corpses every 15 to 30 minutes."

to 30 minutes."
Why not use this technology? Why assume that "civilian ovens" have not caught up to these rates? It is purely to maintain an arbitrary narrative, try and put your bias aside and look at things objectively. What reasoning do modern "civilian" ovens have for using inferior technology? Why have "civilian" ovens not, at the very least, advanced to meet the rates the Germans had eighty years ago? Technological advancements are advancing on an exponential curve, would it not follow that, if the advanced tech existed, a business would use it? Why claim that they are not the same thing, when you are not helping the comparison by adding "civilian" in front of the cremation oven?

forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=10214

>Another holocaust denial thread
And remember within this thread all documents are fake, all pictures edited, and all testimonies were/are lies and enforced by torture. Everything else is invalid for (((some))) reason

My favorite thing they do is when they edit the pictures themselves and then post them as proof that the pictures were "fake".

it really doesn't matter since ultimately the only thing that matters to you is that it can't have happened, not if it did. it's just not a good look, even for you.
>le every dead jew had to be cremated meme
you're frothing over a retarded angle as usual

Tell me stormfag-kun, what do you make of the sonderkommando photos, we're they also faked?
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonderkommando_photographs

>inb4 someone posts this document which even believers in the holocaust have called fake
forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=10214

>implying dresden was bombed

Frankly, the Allies would have been justified in simply purging the germans.

Fuck Germanics. They've been nothing but a scourge on Europe for centuries.

that's because some fake documents alone don't prove much.
soviets gonna soviet. we know. this doesn't disprove the holocaust by any stretch, or every other document for that matter. nobody here is saying literally every single piece of information about the holocaust is true, but maybe you do the opposite.

Murder of Jews was an open secret in Germany lel
you literally have people writing shit in diaries
of course, they didn't know the full scale and exact methods (they knew about mass shootings in East), but this just makes Holocaust denial so funny
not to mention shitload of German soldiers, who wrote home, talked when they came on leave, or even sent photos

Soviets tried to downplay Holocaust, you dumb nigger, and emphasized Slavic victims
Stalin was anti-Semitic, and so was USSR from late 40's onwards
was that forged too?
since it's so easy to fake stuff that happened within the lifetime of still living people, how the fuck do YOU know anything?

>Oh no, dead people on the ground in a photograph being cremated in the slowest way possible
>Must mean 6 million Jews were gassed
Not much desu

no one claims 6 million were gassed you dumb Amerinigger
this is like those pics faked by stormniggers and then they paste the real one next to a shitty fake
>really makes you ponder
kys

>Must mean 6 million Jews were gassed
Literally no one is saying this you fucking autist, why do Naziboos always attack unrelated points?

that's pretty much exactly what i was trying to say actually...

>6 million were gassed

for such proud defenders of the third reich none of them seem to have any real firsthand familial connection to the actual time and place
oh wait no i forgot literally every german was brain hacked

95% of Hitlerboos are Amerishits
God I hate America

i am american i just have family from pomerania, the part locked in poland, so you can imagine the resentment and still denying they were killing the jews is fucking absurd to them
but nah they were lobotomized and just made up what they saw heard and DID FIRSTHAND.

Yes. They all should've been thrown in the camps themselves, fucking Krauts.

>Fake document
Disregarding evidence that contradicts your views as being "faked" is not a valid form of argumentation.

Just read Holocaust Controversies blog. People there debunk all this nonsense.

>The definition of cremation does not reference bones anywhere, which means the cremation process was carried out in full.
For example this is a lie. There were bones. And you can even see them in films from Majdanek.

"No crematoria" capable of disposing of millions of corpses? Absolutely false, the crematoria were more than capable of the job, according to both the Nazis' own internal memos and the testimony of survivors. Holocaust-deniers deliberately confuse civilian, funeral-home crematoria with the huge industrial ovens of the death camps.

>it takes much longer to cremate a body than 12-13 minutes PER BODY.
Let me guess, you're basing this off how long it takes modern crematoria to do it, right?
You do not understand the difference between everyday civilian crematoria and military-industrial crematoria. typically, a commercial crematory operator will burn a corpse for an extended period to remove all traces of carbonized flesh, i.e., to whiten the bones. Even so, such processes only extend the total cremation time to between two and four hours, you forget that such cosmetic concerns were not of importance to the Nazis.
There is still simply no question about the burning times of the ovens. In 1939, the firm of Topf and Sons was awarded a contract to build a Dachau furnace which had an estimated capacity of one corpse per hour per muffle (times two muffles). By increasing the air pressure, by July 1940 they had produced a furnace that could burn just under two corpses per hour per muffle (again, times two muffles).
The crematoriums that were eventually installed at Auschwitz-Birkenau were massive. They were capable of disposing of several bodies per muffle in half an hour or so, and they could run for days at a time without maintenance. (There were difficulties eventually, however, and several of the ovens were out of service for months at a time.) Topf and Sons was awarded a patent in 1951, and the patent also states that a single muffle can cremate a corpse in half an hour.

No one except the deniers called it fake.

IIRC the bones were crushed by the sonderkommando and buried somewhere, good luck finding bone fragments after 70 years

I remember reading somewhere about a Japanese oven showed in 1905 that could burn 1 body in 20 minutes or so.

not to mention, again, you can kill and dispose of a dead jew in a great many ways. they should at least have more creative fantasies

sorry, your compatriots are retarded
it's also obvious they literally never heard about Slavic victims of Nazis, probably because their school system ignores it, or Jewish lobby doesn't want to lose their victim card
their "white nationalism" literally alienates most of fucking Europe

>CODOH
COHOD is a cult. They ban even holocaust deniers who disagree with their moderators. And of course they are 100% biased. The recent case with Sonderkommando photos is a perfect example of this.

they know, they just don't need to address it for reasons you stated and can just chalk it all up to simple war anyway since they can be tied to a country

i should add, those moments when parts of their narratives actually align are truly beautiful

There were five Krema in Auschwitz. Krema II and III had five huge furnaces, each of which had a "triple-muffle" that could burn three bodies simultaneously. They were designed to burn efficiently and quickly, especially when burning many bodies in a row (see Gutman et al., Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp, 1994, pp. 185-186).

Although the furnaces were designed with three muffles, two to three bodies could almost always be placed in each muffle. Remember that many children were present, and that the victims were often inmates who had been at Auschwitz for months and who were malnourished in the extreme. The Nazis took 70 to 100 kg of animal remains as a "unit" that could be incinerated in one muffle; whether that was one large person or three small ones was irrelevant, technically speaking. Höss testified that the Sonderkommando would alternate between putting three and two bodies in each muffle. (See Gutman et al., op. cit., pp. 236, 166, 180n55.)

Contrary to what the IHR claims in question 42, the furnaces would consume the bodies in anywhere from half an hour to 45 minutes maximum. This is not only verified by eyewitnesses, but by numerous Nazi memos concerning a variety of incineration jobs.

>amerikanischen
Whatever they were shown came from western camps liberated by the Americans which are officially not extermination camps. So basically is right. But I'm sure they later gathered all these people up again to tell them the images they were shown were actually the result of typhus and starvation and not some deliberate genocide.

What's a muffle

This

Nice commie propaganda

Thanks for the same image but this time with an unsourced caption

If you think documents or photos have been faked then prove it. Without it you have nothinng more than just your opinion. And why you think Soviets made this up if there are official reports coming from a lot of different countries? Not talking about communis puppets but for example Polish underground state.

>It’s only unsourced if they do it

*snigger*

The Holocaust is an established event in history, so therefore you have to support your position that it didn't happen.

No, it's unsourced if it's unsourced.

It is commonly claimed that photo is showing German troops or their allies killing civilians. What proof do you have that is in fact Russian troops killing civilians?

Because the holocaust is made up in 1960?

hmmm

NKVD was killing in a different way.

From 1948 until 1962/67 Holocaust survivors were seen as an embarassment in Israel and were bullied. I don't know how stormfront explains that. Maybe the Israeli government made a deal with them that they will be rich after a few decades when they will make the topic popular?

Because holcoaust theory is retarded

So no theory that would explain that? Or various official documents coming from German or Polish sides (if you don't trust Jews or Soviets)?

Because Jews play the long game

Then out of those thousands Jewish migrants from Europe there must've been at least one who said fuck it.

Loll what. The only holocaust document was the ersatzgruppen death toll thing written in 1960.

No. There were also documents from the Auschwit architects, journals and correspondence of Goebbels, Frank, Himmler, Heydrich's einsatzgruppel telegraph, Polish reports (Pilecki, Karski and the so-called "major's report"). Among others. Official documents from the Auschwitz archives convinced a former holocaust denier Jean-Claude Pressac for example.
Without debunking those documents (and there are more like the sondercommando notes) deniers are basically flat earthers. But keep talking that it comes from some Jewish institutes. There are nearly a dozen countries in the region all with their separate archives and not all of them are too friendly with Israel.

Many bodies were not results of typhus or starvation but of deliberate murder. They had bullet holes in their skulls. The Nazis killed a lot of prisoners before the end of the war.

What mass graves? Where?

>Many bodies were not results of typhus or starvation but of deliberate murder
[Citation needed]

If people were executed, it would have been a very low number.
t. forensic doctor on the western front

Also I don't remember seeing any photos of executed people from the western front either.

Ponary. Quite a lot of bodies were discovered there. Near Majdanek they also found hundreds of bodies.

I'm sure there are bodies like that showed in Death Mills. Or maybe I confused it with the film about Majdanek where they definitely show bodies of people killed by bullets.