The best way to build mass as a natty is the following:

You are right, but still; fuck feeling like a pussy lifting babby weights.

I train like you said, but have kept the big lifts with a 3x5 scheme and train for strength with those.

Also, fuck the "essential" deload. I'll just deload on my main lifts whenever I haven't been able to do them 3 times in a row (so much like in SL/SS). The rest automatically follows.

Nevertheless, looking strictly at mass, you are right; no way around it.

> mfw

>whenever I haven't been able to do them 3 times in a row
Ideally you'd deload before you hit the wall, not after. Although there are many ways to deload of course.

>low intensity

>Low intensity
>Low RPE (leave reps in the tank you said)
>As frequent deloads as demanding programs like TM and 531
Zero gains
Post body
Oh wait you won't because this is a shit thread. Kys.

I'm not OP and I don't train exactly like he expouses, but...

1. You can't have both high volume and high intensity, so low intensity is a must.

2. Leaving "a couple of reps" in the tank as he suggests is hardly "low" RPE.

3. TM doesn't include deloads. 5/3/1 includes deloads every 4th week and that is more frequent than OP's suggestion.

In conclusion you're just talking shit. Why? If you have legitimate points of criticism that's cool but you can't just make shit up and be angry about it.

>finishing each set feeling like you could do more
WRONG, you must go balls to the wall every set with good form

hes trying to help and your saying hes talking shit. what he said is pretty much how you should train exept the deload bullshit because thats not needed at all just lift. if you cant go heavy for a day go light simple as that

OP post example workout with reps per set, interested newb here.

>working out muscle groups 2x a week
>natty

Yah....no

ABxABxx
Why not?

Having a good diet is better than working out more

So you train Axxxxxx, where:
A: delts
?

why do you trip you disgusting DYEL cunt
filtered

it certainly isnt chest. lmao

So a deload then

eeh...yeah lol

are you trying to prove you know your shit by posting that picture?

>this is what weak faggots actually believe

5/3/1 updated is every 7th week breh

won't it really depen on what type of genes you have? some people will just have superior reactions to one type of training, one to another

this high volume shit sounds literally like for roidfags who grow by doing jackshit

Thank you OP, I've been looking for exactly this, in the midst of all the strength training and juice memes.

Is it really 8-10 sets, not reps? I've never heard of that before.

Post routine OP, I'm interested in trying this out

What's ss

For each group, not exercise.

Dyel detected

a meme

I read the first sentence and already decided I was going to call you out on your bullshit. But then I read it and realized this is exactly how I made the majority of my gains before I started pinning.

I always assumed felt shame for the low intensity part. You described it perfectly. But I somehow knew I shouldn't increase my intensity. I knew it was more important to keep up with high volume and frequency at the expense of sacrificing intensity... I would barely be out of breath or sweating that much.

I guess I didn't do the 6 weeks followed by 2 week deload though. Although I was only semi-committed and probably deloaded every few months for a week or two without even realizing.

People should listen to OP. It's true... It's why people complain about "chad" making gains without even trying or following a program... Laziness (like in the picture) is the perfect mindset for making gains as a natty.

Now that I'm not natty though, I have switched to... well probably not high intensity. I've switched to medium intensity. Lol. I'm still lazy as fuck. I never push till failure. Always can still do a few more reps if I need to.

I approve of this thread. It's about time somebody posted something different, from personal experience. Rather than everyone posting the same viewpoints that the fakenatties spout out to make money.

In general, yes, but people respond differently to different volume/frequency methods, and should find what works best for them (once they're not a beginner and can actually judge such things).

Veeky Forums is obsessed with there being a one-size-fits-all approach.

Schutz Staffel

Check out Beyond 5/3/1, Wendler now says it's best to do two 3-week cycles before a deload, and strongly recommends First Set Last and Joker Sets for more volume.

Yes. When you are experienced enough, find what works for you.

I can buy all that except for leaving reps in the tank. Why should I do that?

Straight shota.

literally auschwitz

kill yourself you dumb motherfucker, why do you keep tripfagging here? You're fucking useless

bullshit ive made decent gains and I do 5x5 for most everything and can barely finish the 5th set.

Maybe its cause I just turned 19 too but idk pal you seem to be memeing

>trying to counter based quads of truth with that horrible picture of that goblin body

get out

Not OP, but I like this idea.

So your muscles can repair without being lost due to lack of sleeping 12 hours a day.

When I lift heavy (I can rep 135 for press, diddy 365) I need so much sleep.

Also allows you to hit muscles more often per week.

Okay. That makes sense. Thanks.
I'm only looking to build mass. Got the strength already. Will try this when my cut is over.

...

So I should do sheiko?

mostly right OP, except for
>low intensity (finishing each set feeling as though you could have easily cracked a few more reps out)

strengthandconditioningresearch.com/hypertrophy/#4

tldr: lift to failure

highly recommend you read this entire article tho

you don't destroy yourself every session. instead you go in and stimulate growth, then leave. then do it again after a rest day, when you will be able to stimulate again because you can recover in that time.

unfortunately, unless you lift very close to failure you might not be stimulating growth at all.

so how would a program based on op's and your statements look like?

So how does one know when they've trained a muscle enough?

semen sucking

lift heavy enough that you can't do more than `~12 reps
high volume
high frequency
lifting to failure each set

so basically any bodybuilding upper lower split

unfortunately there's not a whole lot of research on several of these factors. for example, we only know that lifting weights in a high relative load (meaning you can't do more than 15 reps) induces more hypertrophy in untrained individuals, but there's no research for trained subjects. so the advice to do high relative loads is just assuming that this correlation isn't the opposite in trained individuals (which i think is a safe assumption -- why would training make lower relative loads more hypertrophic?)

same for volume

there is evidence for greater frequency and training to failure tho

you really need to post your body or some other kind of proof that this actually works

for all we know you look like shit or are just making stuff up

that said, my routine is pretty similar to what you say, but i never deload
dont really see the point

This is one good way to gain size as a natty.
Another, I would say is to train for strength in the main muscle groups once a week and then hypertrophy in your second workout targeting the same muscle groups.
I've been training for several years as a natty and have had great results from both methods.

you want to finish each set unable to do another repetition.

strictly speaking you don't NEED to go to failure to actually induce hypertrophy, you just need motor unit recruitment. if you're training to failure, that's then you're surely achieving motor unit recruitment.

Boosts your test like CRAZY

i like to do a heavy day and a higher volume one, kinda like phul

...

did all of you start programs like this after doing SL or SS, a strength building program?

my lifts are shit but I only ever cared about hypertrophy

just start a hypertrophy program. "strength bases" are a meme. you'll gain some strength along the way

opinions on Hypertrophy Specific Training?

Is working out 6-7 days really gonna hurt my gains. I sorta just enjoy going everyday and lifting is way more enjoyable than cardio

>high volume (8-10 sets per muscle group)
at how many reps per set?

You need rest for muscle to grow.

Is that the same guy?

I feel very sorry for whoever falls for this bait.

they were identical twins

Yea I mean I read that muscles need ~24 to recover n I switch uppers n lowers everyday. Also I am never sore, maybe directly after a lift but I never really feel any soreness build up

>1. You can't have both high volume and high intensity
I didn't say you should
>low intensity is a must.
No it's not
>2. Leaving "a couple of reps" in the tank as he suggests is hardly "low" RPE.
2-3 reps in the tank is literally 8-7 on the RPE scale, respectively.
"Sets ≤7 on the RPE scale contribute very little to systematic fatigue and don't need to be calculated in your workout" - as good as I can remember it from the RPE dude.
>3. TM doesn't include deloads
My bad, I meant madcow. I get those two mixed up sometimes. Madcow, like 531, has 1 deload week every 4.
>5/3/1 includes deloads every 4th week and that is more frequent than OP's suggestion.
1 week every 4 weeks = 2 weeks every 8 weeks. Excactly the same frequency. I don't know what you are talking about.
>In conclusion you're just talking shit. Why?
>Make shit up and be angry about it
I literally have no idea what you are talking about. I believe my post comes across as levels headed.

Hi! 1.5 year lifter here and I think you clearly look like u lift, kinda surprised everyone's hating. Obviously not a mass monster but very dearly a body type that took time and effort.