Back Poland unconditionally in the ultimatum

>and the geography was bad for an attack.
Quite the opposite, don't forget about the Maginot line

they were in a bad position
even though the soviets were very bloodied and basically milked through their reserves there was still 6 million frontline troops in the vicinity,the allied has mostly 4.5 millions
even though in the long run there was going to be an attritional victory there was a significant risk of the Soviets pushing all the way to France
Soviets also was the most experienced nation when it comes to Operational level in warfare,Deep Battle mostly blew away any Western battleplan until Airland battle was developed in the 80's
also there was huge sense of camraderie amongst the veterans,ideological differences were put aside as the Soviets regarded the Western Allies as valued allied who provided alot of support and material,what people dont remember that while Lend Lease seems miniscule in total production,most of the items were very valuable instruments or hard to produce items and motor vehicles that makes those massive pushes into the Reich possible,while the Western acknowledged the scale of the Great Patriotic War and bloodshed the Soviets encountered,pitting the two of them would be unthinkable to the common men

The Germans had a "line" of their own. Not as big as the Maginot but still would have been tough to crack.
Not to mention that the land is heavily forested and half of the front it is guarded by the Rhine.
There's a reason that all the fighting between Germans and Franks was always in Belgium.

>This leads them not to compromise on Danzig
Stopped reading there OP. Get fucked.

they would have gotten shit on by the red army. there weren't enough atomic bombs to save the westerners in that kind of scenario

>Britain just wanted to take Germany down
Oh wow, is that why they were feeding Germany all the fucking states?

UK wanted Nazis and Soviets to bleed each other to death.

Though I know full well what you're doing posting this shit, the Allies knew they couldn't defend Poland and certain British figures expressed (I don't remember who) expressed a disgust they felt with themselves over this. Churchill himself was in disagreement over what Stalin had planned for Poland post-war but between the Russians and Americans he didn't really have much weight in the discussion. More Poles are angered at the Americans giving in to Stalin's demands and turning the country into a Soviet satellite than the Allies' inability to come to their aid in '39. The Brits especially were good to us and many of our soldiers and political exiles went on to live there after the war was over.

>The Brits especially were good to us
Ah yes, especially when they demanded poles to pay extreme amounts of money for amunition and other supplies, hell even for using the planes.

Especially when they murdered Sikorski, right?

Do you think Poland would have refused any concession deal if France and Britain didn't back them?

Yes

Danzig was independent from Poland

Why?

Seems illogical that they would fight a war they knew they would lose.

Not really, it was autonomous in the same way that Andorra is autonomous.

>Especially when they murdered Sikorski, right?

lol

Much better than the Germans who killed a fifth of our population and destroyed our country or the Russians who massacred our intelligentsia and put us under their boot.

Yeah measuring allies and enemies with the same scale is totally fair

Better a shitty ally than a mortal enemy

Brits literally threw Poland under German bus to get time to prepare.

War was inevitable anyway, the question was when.

Drink that soviet cool aid mate, only Warsaw pact apologists can twist to that communist-party-line ass version of events.

Poland was supposed to hold out for a minimum of 3 months for assistance to arrive, as per the guarantee.

What is the Danzig referendum.

It was the western allies, not Stalin responsible for the failure of the Warsaw Uprising... r-r-right??

Meanwhile, arm, equip, legitimize (albeit slowly at first) polish gov-in-exile, and the countless soldiers, pilots, researchers, workers who were vital in our collective victory.

hmmm.

That's in every way wrong

>Poland was supposed to hold out for a minimum of 3 months for assistance to arrive, as per the guarantee.

That's more true for the Sudeten crisis. Hell, they even prepared a palace coup to depose of Hitler if the West decided to intervene

I'm pretty sure that the British, basically, killed off the whole Polish govt in exile when they took a stance of opposition against the USSR, though.

...

>entire country completely occupied by the Red Army
>"yeah I think there's a chance it won't become communist :^)))))"

The idea was shilling for a Ruso-German war.

Poland was lying in between and it was used as a buffer against the USSR and as a mean to have Germany tied up. Poland was pretty anticommunist and it would have likely participated in a war against the Soviets, along with other countries like Hungary and Romania. The Brits wouldn't mind about that, on the contrary they would be happy with that, as long as their leverage in eastern europe didn't dissipate, i.e keep Poland and others like Romania but specially Poland as assets for their geopolitics, not losing them to German alignment.

Essentially, Poland was indeed a tool.

French and UK wanted Germany and Soviets to destroy each other,before intervention.They had no intention of helping Poles.

>In 1945, all countries from France to Greece and Poland had a very real chance of the communists gaining power democratically and then ursurping it somehow

Nope, not in Poland. Communists didn't have chance of winning free elections there.

Greece wasn't occupied by the red army.
Usually in countries with a very strong partisan movement there was a chance of communist gaining power

Polish people hate communism since 1920 war, to this time called somoene a communist is a insult in Poland

All polish defense plan was about lasting long enough to france offenisive started

Italy was occupied by allied forces yet had a strongchance of becoming communist. Finland was unoccupied and had the same possibility. Czechoslovakia had a functional democracy despite Red Army presence. Hungary had free elections. Romania ws a monarchy for several years despite Red Army. Yugoslavia went communist despite no Red army. By hindsight, one might see the correlation between occupying army and the ideology of the country after a brief free for all situation, but in 1945, there was no precedent to believing that Poland being a fully lost cause. Czechoslovakia was considered Western enough to be offered Marshall aid. Same for Finland.

this has to be bait

Do you perhaps live in the belief that Eastern Europe was just declared a socialist paradise the day Berlin fell? There was a complex and tumultous period of democratic transition in all countries from North Sea to Black Sea from around 1945 to 1948. It is a fascinating period, but only when you stop thinking that other socialists countries besides USSR were irrelevant and that Moscow controlled everything - both very ingrained in the Orthodox American vision of cold war.

This is all totally true but your ignoring that the soviets essentially took complete control of the communist parties in these countries and used them to gradually, or in the case of czechoslovakia, suddenly, seize power. There was never any doubt that they would fall to communism and become soviet puppets, stalin just had to do it gradually to avoid provoking the west.

Also there was never any chance finland would fall to communism after the winter war, andnthe us expeded a ridiculous amount of effort amd money to keep italy from going red.

It's hard to estimate what kind of popularity they would have gotten, but all the European countries that went through peaceful elections between 1945 and 1950 did see the leftist parties gain at least 35% of the vote, with communists usually getting around half of that. In Hungary, where the communist party essentially had been non-existent for two decades, it still gained 17% of the vote. In Czechslovakia, where the party had been a relatively strong one, it gained around 32% of the vote. France, where the party had a strong base before the war, 26%. Finland, where the party had been banned since '31 and associated with the previous invading regime, it still gained 24% of the vote. While Poland might have been an anomaly, I think it would possible to see a 30-35% vote share for the two left wing parties (Labour, Communist) and have the country headed by a center to left coalition which could have probably been eroded to strengthen communists and/or repress right wing and centrist parties, as in elsewhere.

> There was never any doubt that they would fall to communism
In the West there was quite a lot of doubt, actually. Western powers saw the elections as the determinant part - Hungary had free elections, and probably could have stayed out of USSR sphere of influence due to its relative distance to Moscow and relatively weak Communist party.

> Also there was never any chance finland would fall to communism after the winter war
This is not true. Firstly, left wing parties did gain an enormous share of vote (25% for SDP, 23% for SKDL [Containing and dominated by the Finnish communist party]), and were allowed into the government until 1948, when the SKDL faced a real chance to gain power in Finland through the alliance to the Soviet official stationed in Finland and a somewhat credible way of inviting Red Army into Finland through the 1948 Finno-Soviet treaty. It fell down between the lack of trust between USSR and SKDL, with the latter being too shy to use power and the former not being sure of SKDLs capacity to stage a coup. Also, USSR felt that Czechoslovakian method could risk a civil war or an insurgency in Finland, which would have damaged the country's industry, which would have not been in USSRs favors as the Finnish industry exported scarce machinery and other industrial products into war-stricken USSR as war reparations. By all means it is possible to consider a Czechoslovakia type of approach in Finland a possibility, with the question rather being its success rather than the threat.

It is somewhat unfair to credit the succesful communist parties (in gaining power, that is) to USSR/Moscow, and unsuccessful ones to the national ones. The leadership of Italian Communist Party had resided in Moscow for a good decade. Finnish party leadership had lived and trained in Moscow quite frequently, with Sundström (leader) having been a Soviet spy, Pessi (first secretary). Maurice Thorez (the head of French Communist party) lived in Moscow 1941-1945 too.

all this leftist backpedaling
> stalin dindu

Polish people also hate grammar I see

> The leadership of Italian Communist Party had resided in Moscow for a good decade. Finnish party leadership had lived and trained in Moscow quite frequently, with Sundström (leader) having been a Soviet spy, Pessi (first secretary). Maurice Thorez (the head of French Communist party) lived in Moscow 1941-1945 too.
Interesting. I think it changed later because I remember reading how Italian and French communists criticized the Soviets for invading Czechoslovakia in 1968.

The Italian and French parties never fell in line with the Soviet method of doing politics. They were very concerned about legitimacy and being perceived as proper players, which led to mostly engage in a legimate manner unlike their Eastern counterparts, and to be sidelined in the process by the center-right parties.

You're an idiot.

If it was autonomous, why didn't it join Germany when the Nazi party took power there in 1933?

Treaty of Versailles.

Okay, 1936 then when it was violated and nothing happened

It was violated a little.
Let me explain you in terms you can understood.
It was like some Syrian refugee grab ass of some Germboy girlfriend and he looks away with hope that it will not went any further. A girl do not like that and throw a fit and get slapped and situation escalated.
UK and France was that Germboy back in the time(but with bigger balls) and Germans were Muslims. Poland was a girlfriend and was not amused.

>>Back Poland unconditionally in the ultimatum
It wasn't unconditional. Brits declared the guatantee of Polish independence not territorial integrity of the then borders. Also, don't forget what poland had been for the 5 preceeding years.

It was under control of the League of Nations.