Nazi Germany and Stalin's Soviet Union are often compared as similar organizations with the similar kinds of repression/surveillance systems directed towards their respective peoples.
However, how come Nazis were the ones paranoid enough to have an entirely separate private army loyal to the party while the Soviets had, well, just the army?
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They didn't need to have a private military because the nature of their ascension to power was different. Soviet army was already Bolshevik at its core as a result of revolution. Nazis needed paramilitary groups to back their "peaceful" seizure of power.
And since they were useful they ended up growing in power and influence and grabbing more resources for themselves until they stopped being just paramilitary.
What exactly do you think the NKVD was?
Secret police, like SD.
Secret police that by the war's end operated 53 divisions and saw extensive frontline combat.
The Soviet Union did have a Waffen SS-like army: The NKVD Divisions of Internal Troops. Where the meme commissars come from.
In fact Russia still has internal troops following the collapse of the USSR.
Commisars were never part of NKVD.
the guys behind you during an attack
everything from border guards,army and railway units to refugee camp guards
This might come as a shock to you, but the Waffen-SS was not the only branch of the SS.
It wasn't so much that the Nazi were paranoid as it was Himmler just wanting to be a LARPing faggot and siphoning funds from the Wehrmacht to pay for his divisions of glorified Nazi Party brown-nosers
i think that you replied to wrong comment
no, it was exactly the right one. If you're asserting that the SS was a parallel army for Nazi Germany, but that the Soviets have no equivalent, the NKVD fits. Both organizations were paramilitary forces, but they also had other functions.
more like the Red Army was by definition "Red" while the Germans had a national army, and then a party's army
>how come Nazis were the ones paranoid enough to have an entirely separate private army loyal to the party
Well, the SA or brownshirts were on track to replacing the actual German military, but Hitler say this as a bad move and rather would keep the existing German military and build that up. He also was paranoid about the SA since many of them, including Rohm, favored the Strasserist faction, so he created the SS which evolved into a para military unit loyal to Hitler rather than loyal to the nazi party. So when faced with the decession between the Germany military/Prussian aristocrats vs the rowdy batch of nazi party street brawler who were loyal to a rival faction of the national socialist idea, it was an easy choice for him to just take them all out with the SS and then fold the rest into the SS. So then, Hitler had the German military AND his own private Hitlerist military as well that were loyal to his cause rather than to Germany
The soviets were different because Stalin didnt really create it in the same way Hitler did. The Red Army won the Russian civil war and then became the official military of Russia after that. The closest thing Stalin had were the commisars, which were officers assigned to watch over the military and make sure they were following party lines and not getting any bright ideas of over throwing the communist.
Both were paranoid, but just done in different ways. They were both born out of the idea that the military would turn on them, so they had their safe guards in place to prevent that from happening
>operated 53 divisions
The actual military (ie not railway/garrison/internal security) divisions formed by NKVD were operated by Red army because everyone realized how dumb is it to have two parallel armies.
Something Germans didn't seem to grasp for some reason despite SS corps acting independently and at times against their orders
It's more like NKVD didn't have a Waffen-SS branch that would go around acting on its own.
Otherwise organizations are indeed comparable.
German law actually prevented members of political parties from joining the armed forces without first resigning until very late in the war. The only way to serve in the German military and remain a member of the NSDAP was to join the Waffen-SS. The Wehrmacht did not have political officers until late 1943 and developed the system in response to the Soviet commissars. As such, the trustworthiness of Germany's standing Army to the Nazi Party was always in question (and given the number of times the Army tried to kill Hitler, somewhat justified).
Also the Nazis actually had two private armies, the SS and the SA. The SA lost most of their power after the Night of the Long Knives but prior to that were basically Nazi Germany's auxiliary army. At 3 million strong, the SA on paper actually outnumbered the Reichswehr who were limited to 100,000 as per the Treaty of Versailles. This wound being a major problem because Ernst Rohm developed the ambition of having the SA replace the Reichswehr and become Germany's standing army. The traditionalists in the Army were appalled by this proposal and Rohm's refusal to drop the matter was major factor in Hitler's decision to massacre the SA leadership.
Except Internal Troops are considered a law enforcement agency. They're basically Russia's equivalent to the US Marshals, Department of Homeland Security, ATF, and FBI.
I would realy like to see Brown revolution, Germany without Hitler betraying the people in order to please his (((rich supporters))) could be great.
*would be great
Stalin was too paranoid to have his personal army.
Seriously though, from ideological stance it were two completely different organisations.
Like most right ideologies, nazism had "losers" - the people made up specifically to point fingers too - and "Aristocracy" - the fags who would pat themselves at the back.
It just NEEDED to have some special unit for the autists with most good boy points to jerk off their ego.
Worker-Peasant Red Army had nothing to build on top of it. You couldn't be, like, Uber worker(peasant).
>The NKVD Divisions of Internal Troops.
Internal troops, are, basically having police functions and they are still serving to the Ministry of Internal Affairs. Basically, they are glorified police.
>NKVD
>Secret Police.
Dude. Are you, by any chance, retarded? Especially secret were those women who were regulating fucking traffic.
Because Stalin was too paranoid to have a separate private army like that. Having an army like that would create a need to have someone to lead it, however whoever would lead it would become really powerful, probably powerful enough to overthrow Stalin if needed.
Because the Commies made the army party members.
Why are Nazis so retarded as to not do this?
1) The NKVD =/= SS. NKVD was both USSR's secret police and internal security bureau. Yes it had soldiers, but didn't perform the same role as Waffen SS. Most NKVD units did rear echelon duties
2) Why did the Nazis need a separate party-loyal army like the Waffen SS? Easy: German culture - or specifically, Prussian culture- turned the armed forces into a political party in its own right ever since the warhawks of Prussia united the Krauts. This was the case even after WWII, where the Reichswehr was pretty much a force of its own in Weimar politics.
Meaning: the Nazis had no sure control of the military because it stood equal to them in power. The army after all only sided with the Nazis because the leadership believed they could gain something from it.
Jesus read the wiki
>en.wikipedia.org
NKVD is an umbrella organization for multiple entirely separate services.
Featuring secret police. That actually cooperated with Gestapo in 1940 lel.
...
No, when some unit became guard, it meant for them they could wear special badge and got new flag, had supperior equipment and were expected to be the best out of the best (and were succesful in this unlike memSeS). They were issued with the hardest tasks, but they were regular part of RKKA and had the same command structure. I heard that STAVKA wanted to give them new special uniforms, but it was refused.
would Anne Frank's diary have gotten her arrested in the Soviet Union though?
What if pregnant Ann Frank teleported into the 9th May 1945 Stalin´s Dacha to celebrate the victory with friends, Voroshilov, Malenkov Berija, Kaganovich, Molotov etc.?
>Berija
You don't even need to be told about what would follow...
I unnironicaly admire Berija´s look
I still can't understand how this managed to NOT become leader of the Soviet Union given that he scared the shit out of Stalin even.
A balding numale manlet with glasses?
he was too good for this world, Jews tricked him, it clearly wasnt Kruschev because he had IQ 81 which was about half of Berija´s
Congrats to the first intelligent thread/answers about WW2, the Nazi party and Stalin I saw on this boards in months.
rare feat
Should've focused more on getting friends instead of being a creepy, hated pedophile wormtongue. Should've known he'd be ganked the second he stopped getting protection.
>What were the Red Army commissars
Not a separate military unit.
Not really, Russians have federal police which is equivalent of KGB.
Internal Troops (now consolidated as Rosgvardiya) are something else. They were/are practically military units.
*equivalent of FBI
It's more like NSA, really.
>tovarish, make sure you take the picture so the light reflects off my glasses, it makes me look cool
what a great guy