/tv/ JIDF

Here's the whole picture/camp as opposed to the little capture you posted.

>picture of something burning outside
>no pictures ever produced of the as would be required 24/7/365 running chimneys smoking like crazy

>he doesn't know that this picture was for years used to "prove" a smoking chimney, when it clearly wasn't, with jews claiming there was a chimney there

>still no pictures of smoking chimneys out of thousands upon thousands of allied recon photos

Your claim now is they used open pits when the ovens where "too busy".

Why is the only thing smoking in this photo an outdoor pit? Seeing as the cremations needed to run non-stop to come close to even half the numbers claimed.

You're not too bright, huh?

>Computer, although I supposedly had 46 ovens, create a primitive outdoor fire pit for my secretive jew burning.

Other urls found in this thread:

holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2015/02/john-balls-air-photo-evidence-on.html
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/Auschwitz-Birkenau_Complex_-_Oswiecim,_Poland_-_NARA_-_305897.jpg
virtualglobetrotting.com/map/minato-waste-incineration-and-power-plant/view/google/
google.com/search?&q=waste incinerator google maps
phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/see-no-evil/
articles.chicagotribune.com/1992-05-07/news/9202100662_1_death-wall-auschwitz-memorials
www2.gsu.edu/~crirxf/friedmann/index.htm
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

>the numbers
How many do you think were cremated?

Regardless of the smoke, where ARE the chimneys in this photo? I don't see any. I read the detached one that's there today was built post-war by the soviets.

>>he doesn't know that this picture was for years used to "prove" a smoking chimney, when it clearly wasn't, with jews claiming there was a chimney there
This picture was released in 2004.

>still no pictures of smoking chimneys out of thousands upon thousands of allied recon photos
>thousand
There are like 10. You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

>Why is the only thing smoking in this photo an outdoor pit?
Maybe the ovens weren't active then? And I can imagine that a chimeny like that produces less smoke than an open pit. I think different material was used in both operations.

>Computer, although I supposedly had 46 ovens, create a primitive outdoor fire pit for my secretive jew burning.
Crematoria had limited capacity.

At Auschwitz? You tell me. The official numbers have fallen from 8 million to 1.5 over the decades.

I'm looking for solid proof there was any actual organized large scale gassings+cremations aside from starvation/disease/work deaths to be honest. Help me out if you can.

It was never 8 million. Can you please stop lying?

>This picture was released in 2004.
Yeah, 13 years ago. I can link you arguments of people claiming there's a chimney there, not a pit.

>There are like 10.
Can you link them? Can't find any aside from the one above.

>Crematoria had limited capacity.
So if they're using an outdoor pit due to over-capacity... wouldn't the chimneys be smoking too?

Also, where are the chimneys in this photo BTW?

Can you?

>Can you link them? Can't find any aside from the one above.
But you just said there are thousand.

holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2015/02/john-balls-air-photo-evidence-on.html
Here is a good analysis.

This is not the official number and never was.

BTFO

>But you just said there are thousand.
I said thousands of recon photos were taken... with none showing smoking chimneys.

Can you show me some of the "like 10" you said there were?

You're not doing it right.
You're not supposed to use critical thinking and logic.
You're supposed to have some animalistic emotional reaction which short circuits your higher brain function.

>Seeing as the cremations needed to run non-stop to come close to even half the numbers claimed.
I don't know where did you get that from.

Why would they show chmneys smoking if most of them weren't taken at Auschwitz-Birkenau? There are actually just 6 photographs. Only two of them made during the Hungarian operation. Both show smoking outdoor pits.

Most look like this. It's simply too far away to see anything.
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/Auschwitz-Birkenau_Complex_-_Oswiecim,_Poland_-_NARA_-_305897.jpg

Can anyone provide pictures of smoke coming from Auschwitz chimneys or even any additional open pit smoke photos?

>holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2015/02/john-balls-air-photo-evidence-on.html
only has smokeless photos.

Do they exist?
said there are "like 10".

That's eyewitness accounts, as it says on the cover, not historian consensus.

This is Minato waste incinerator which burns over 100 tons of garbage a day. You can find many such aerial photos.

virtualglobetrotting.com/map/minato-waste-incineration-and-power-plant/view/google/

google.com/search?&q=waste incinerator google maps

I am actually seeing more smoke in your picture than these. A human body weighs about 75 kilos, of which over half of this is water. Many of the bodies burned weighed far less than this due to starvation or only being young children. If a human body is the equivalent of 40 kilos of trash (an overestimate ignoring some of the factors mentioned), 1 ton is the equivalent of 25 people. 6 million jews would be 240000 tons. A waste incinerator burning 500 tons a day would be done in a year and 3 months.


If anything you should be arguing that there is too much smoke and the photo was fabricated to make it look like there was more smoke than there actually would be.

Thanks for the photo, it's nice. Smoke would defiantly be visible in this photo if there was any, it's pretty high resolution. Smoke like in OP can be seen for miles.

You or someone else above said there were photos of smoke coming from Auschwitz chimneys, "like 10" photos. This was also claimed on /tv/ so I came here.

So, this isn't true?

It just dawned on me from watching an argument on /tv/ that I have never seen photo evidence of actual oven cremation (i.e. smoking chimneys) taking place.

That smoke is from open pits, not from the crematorium. And it's the only picture showing that much smoke. Other pictures show less smoke. Do you even know how big was Birkenau? What you see in those photos is a complex of three camps and an industrial complex.
OP shows only Auscwhitz-Birkenau.

You can easily find all the photos. Here is another good article about Ball, but it also show the photos. Including one made by the Luftwaffe.

phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/see-no-evil/

This is in that picture. Do you see any smoke.

>I am actually seeing more smoke in your picture than these.
Are you talking about the OP pic? Yeah something is defiantly burning in an outdoor pit. A lot of smoke.

What I'm looking for is evidence of smoking chimneys from the famous/infamous 46 indoor crematoriums at Auschwitz that cremated to ashes a large portion of 6 million jews.

Or smoke from any of the crematorium chimneys at any of the camps would be nice too.

How about the Nuremberg Trial, then?
"about 7 million died at this camp (Auschwitz)"

He said there were 'like 10' allied recon photos (but actually just 6, ) rather than 'thousands upon thousands'. That's why he greentexted the word 'thousand'.

That's not the verdict. That's just one testimony. I don't know what Document Number F-140 is.

>Official numbers

That is a factory. That is not a crematorium that cremated 8 to 1.5 million people.

There is smoke easily visible in the OP pic that people are claiming is a jew burning pit.

I am asking if there is/looking for any photo evidence of the actual crematoriums being used, where many, many more jews were supposedly burnt.

5 crematoria + mass graves + open pits - 1-1.2 million (some 900.000 Jews)
It's impossible to tell in most photos.

>that is a factory
Yes. It's visible in that one picture. Do you know where it is? Do you see any smoke? Do you think a huge rubber factory emits less smoke than a crematorium?

>Official numbers
Funny picture.

Well, can you guys tell me what the official number is, then? Is it 1.5 million now? It was 4 million until the 90's.

articles.chicagotribune.com/1992-05-07/news/9202100662_1_death-wall-auschwitz-memorials

> use critical thinking and logic.
>HURRRR STALIN TOTALLY KILLED 100500 MILLIONS IN SOVIET UNION

Fuck you, stormniggers. You can't even accept your own ideology without pedaling back like a fucking rodents you are.

>6 million jews would be 240000 tons
>6 million jews were all incinerated

Absolute state of Holocaust threads.

This is also not an official number. It's a Soviet number, and as you can see it says that 4 million PEOPLE died here, not Jews. It was the Soviet policy to minimalize the amount of Jewish victims and portray the Nazis as the enemies of all free people.

It mentioned in one book doesn't make it historical fact.

The 4 million plaque was put up as compromise between USSR and Western allies.

The 4 million according to the western view represented 4 million people estimated to die in Concentration camps total (as per an estimate given by some nazi SS bureaucrat in testimony.)

The USSR number was the soviet number of the total amount of people killed at Auschwitz (adding soviet POWs) Notice how it says "people" and not jews. This number is clearly wrong, but the camp at the time existed in USSR controlled territory, so there was nothing anyone could do but go along with it.

Once the USSR fell, a more accurate plaque was put up.

It's like stormfags don't even read.

>stormfags

>holocaust
>testimonies of Poles, Germans, Jews, Ukrainians, Lithuanians, Russians and so on, reports, mass graves, photos, orders, letters, diaries of various Nazi officials - from Goebbels to random Auschwitz physicians, population censuses
>lol, never happened

>Bromberg massacre
>Der Sturmer article, some photos made by the Nazis, random number made by the Nazis, few testimonies of Germans
>WTF Poland, stop denying your crimes!

>Danzig massacre
>nothing
>Polish bolsheviks murdered ethnic Germans in Danzig before WW2!

>Do you think a huge rubber factory emits less smoke than a crematorium?
I'm not looking to engage straw men. Do you know how often that factory was in operation? Are there studies on nazi synthetic rubber production smoke vs jew cremation smoke on the visible spectrum?

Again, I am simply asking for evidence of large-scale crematorium use at Auschwitz.

You can clearly see the supposed bodies burning in the OP photo. I am looking for photos of the actual crematoriums being used.

If there aren't any, just say so and I'll be on my way.

You or someone else above said there were "like 10" of them.

The fact that the nazis told the manufacturers of the crematoriums that the capacity to burn 80,000 bodies a month was "insufficient" should be a clue.

see pic related. I can provide english translation if you wish.

See:
I'm posting it only because you probably won't read the article anyway. I'm not convinced if this is smoke or not. Like I said, most of the photos are of really bad quality.

>I am looking for photos of the actual crematoriums being used.
Only 2 sets of photos known to exist that taken while Auschwitz was in operation, the Sonderkommando photographs, and the Auschwitz Album.

The Sonderkommando photos have been the target of stormfags for years (saying it was some car accident scene or something from the 1910s).

Do you really think the nazis would let photographs being taken of the gas chambers, etc in use?

They clearly put a cap on photography after hundreds of Einsatzgruppen photos ended up in opposition hands.

>as you can see it says that 4 million PEOPLE died here, not Jews
And...? Almost sounds like a scripted response. I never said anything about jews. I said over the years there have been claims from 8 million, to 7 million, to 4 million, to 1.5 million people killed at Auschwitz.

>It's like stormfags don't even read.
Now were down to ad hominem attacks. It's almost like you don't want an open discussion?

I'm just tying to get the facts straight. As you know, this is an emotional issue for some. Don't you want the truth to be known?

Question: so are you really claiming that 4 million deaths WASN'T the accepted number that was taught as fact in western schools, literature and museums etc.?

>so are you really claiming that 4 million deaths WASN'T the accepted number that was taught as fact in western schools, literature and museums etc.?
You are speaking of Auschwitz, right? No, 4 million people were not killed at Auschwitz. Read the rest of my post.

Thank you. This is the kind of stuff I have been looking for the entire thread. True, very inconclusive. As far as you know, there aren't any better ones?

>The fact that the nazis told the manufacturers of the crematoriums that the capacity to burn 80,000 bodies a month was "insufficient" should be a clue.
A clue to what? As I said in the post you replied to, I am simply looking for photos of the actual crematoriums being used. If there aren't any, just say so and I'll be on my way.

>A clue to what? As I said in the post you replied to, I am simply looking for photos of the actual crematoriums being used. If there aren't any, just say so and I'll be on my way.
seeLuckily there is plenty of other evidence (some already posted in this thread) in which one can prove the validity of the gas chambers. Photographic images are not needed (do we need a photograph of Caeser to prove he existed?) when you have things like Blue prints, work orders, orders for a 7 year supply of zyklon b ordered every month, etc etc.

Plus if photos did exist, you would have no problem passing them off as fakes.

The 4 million figure was published by the Soviet State Commission in 1945, and is only supported by two out of 19 references, one being from 1946, long before any reliable estimates were available. In short, few historians believed the 4 million figure, and instead believed in more reliable numbers based on various methods like Camp Kommandant Höss' confession of 2.5 million, pre and post-war census data and the number of arrivals in Auschwitz minus survivors.

>Sonderkommando photographs
Outdoor pits
>Auschwitz Album
Trains being disembarked etc.

Thanks for both of those anyway, I knew of the former but not the latter.

>Do you really think the nazis would let photographs being taken of the gas chambers, etc in use?
You're familiar with aerial reconnaissance, right? That's when planes take photos of enemy (and even friendly) territory for intelligence purposes. For example, the OP photo was taken by the RAF in 1944. Germany certainty didn't give permission to the RAF to take pictures. During later stages of the war, Germany had very little control of their air space. Even at the height if the Luftwaffe, allies had little trouble getting aerial reconnaissance.

That's what I was hoping to find, photos of obvious crematorium use from allied intelligence.

Funny thing is, several of the aerials of the camps I've found do indeed come from Germans... Luftwaffe also doing reconnaissance.

I have come come across 100+ aerials of the various camps so far, was hoping someone could help me out as I'm coming up empty.

>Question: so are you really claiming that 4 million deaths WASN'T the accepted number that was taught as fact in western schools, literature and museums etc.?
Not that guy but do you have evidence indicating otherwise?

>4 million people were not killed at Auschwitz
Obviously. I know that. You know that.

But that's not what was taught as a fact for many years to people in western schools, literature and museums... that 4 million died there was what was taught. That's the problem.

Auschwitz-Birkenau wasn't the target of those photographs. Monovitz (Monowice) was.

You won't find many (any?) aerial photographs of death camps (except maybe Lublin/Majdanek) because they were built in the middle of bumfuck nowhere.

wtf is this post

So e.g. a plane ticket or packed bag proves Mr. X went to Jamaica? Or would you want photos to prove it if you were in doubt?

>Plus if photos did exist, you would have no problem passing them off as fakes.
I'm was looking for photos and hard evidence to do the complete opposite, actually.

You forgot to call me a "stormfag". Ok, thanks.

>more reliable numbers like Kommandant Höss' confession

In his diary he decided that 2.5 million is too much and scaled it down to 1.2 million (the number currently accepted as correct).

>Auschwitz-Birkenau wasn't the target
Do you know the details of that particular flight? The camps themselves were certainly targeted, there's correspondence documenting it.

Virtually no large structure in Germany wasn't targeted.

Almost every camp has aerials from my research thus far, from USAAF, RAF, Luftwaffe, USSR and other sources.

This is speaking here. In case you missed my post, could you show evidence for your claim about a 4 million death toll at Auschwitz having been taught in Western schools, literature and museums?

>In his diary he decided that 2.5 million is too much and scaled it down to 1.2 million
>diary
After getting his balls crushed, teeth knocked out and kidneys shut down etc. while awaiting execution.

Just a 100%+ difference.

That's "reliable information"?

>the camps themselves were certainly targeted
Not the death camps. Auschwitz-Birkenau was never targeted.
But most concentration camps were situated close to factories because the prisoners were used as slave labor.

In this picture you can see Monowice (SS War Industries). Close to the village (I think it was a village) is Auschwitz III (Buna). It was like this with most concentration camps. It's a different story with death camps (Sobibor, Belzec, Treblinka).

In the same diary he mentioned how he was tortured by the British.
>After getting his balls crushed, teeth knocked out and kidneys shut down etc. while awaiting execution.
Source?

According to you Poles forced him to write a diary where he said he was tortured by the allies.

>missed my post
I did.

e.g. a quick search gives this book from 2005 by a jew professor who is very pro-jew/anti-denier again bringing up 4 million at Auschwitz.

www2.gsu.edu/~crirxf/friedmann/index.htm

Just google terms like Auschwitz+4 million+ various terms like "taught", "book", "school" etc.

Are you American/western? This is mostly just observation from living, e.g. the USAF Holocaust museum still claims 4 million- I visited it, teachers in my school taught 4 million, books cited it etc.

Wouldn't you expect this after 4 million was claimed for so long? Also google the 90's controversy about the switch from 4 million to 1.5 million. Lots of claims and counter claims and accusations of all sorts from all sides.

>Auschwitz-Birkenau was never targeted
It was, I've seen the documentation. Practically no large complexes were NOT targeted.

Reminder that deniers still cant answer any of these questions

It is my impression that that author is trying to say that 4 million died in extermination camps.
Anyeay, I just looked up "Auschwitz 4 million taught at schools" and the first page doesn't seem to yield results that support your claim.

Source? It was never bombed. I'm sure you confused it with Auschwitz III - Monowitz.

It's not even a book about WW2. It's also not a number supported by the academics. I'm sure there are also books mentioning 100.000 killed in Dresden, even if we know it was about 25.000.

>bombed
reconnaissance flights.

Okay then, I though we're talking about bombing for some reason. I think we even have some aerial photos of death camps (but after or before they started operating).

>still cant answer any of these questions
i.e. straw man nonsense?

When you can actually answer these last 4 questions, get back to me.

For people on the fence, all this brainwashy "all or nothing" and "evil stormfags vs us virtuous good people" bullshit tactics are very disingenuous. Not everyone who questions things, especially things where there are discrepancies, is a nazi or some cartoon cartoon caricature badguy.

Clearly numbers, details and methods etc. have been manipulated for political purposes. Only a fool would deny that. Or a shill.

I don't have the time to go through all the bullshit claims that have been made over the years and disproven, but if you have actually researched, you know exactly the type of things I'm talking about.

I came here simply looking for at least semi-irrefutable evidence of crematoriums being used on a mass scale... and have come away with attempted redirections while finding no direct evidence at all.

>It's another "/pol/ simply can't keep /pol/ in /pol/ episode

kys

He referenced Auschwitz directly in the first paragraph.

You seem to put in great effort in you research.

Gotta go everyone. It was indeed helpful.

Remember the 6, 8, 12, 11, 4, 2, 5 million people that died.

The number and details don't matter to us little people.

(((you)))

ITT: people on a history board who are shocked by numbers and figures changing over the years as more research is carried out and more sources and documents are discovered.

The figures were intentionally and dramatically exaggerated during decades. Do you have any other example like that?

Procopius claiming Justinian murdered 100,000,000 Romans throughout his reign in "Secret History". Said the death toll was something like "ten thousand times ten thousand", before that he claimed it was somewhere Hundreds of thousands.

Damn, he was certainly bad at math.

Wut. A random quote in a book of eyewitness accounts is an "official number" according to you?
In reality there's not really even such a thing as an "official" narrative of the Holocaust. It's not like there's some master authority in charge of Holocaust-related thinking.

So according to you, he was tortured into making the number smaller?
Wut

>I came here simply looking for at least semi-irrefutable evidence of crematoriums being used on a mass scale... and have come away with attempted redirections while finding no direct evidence at all.

No you didn't. You came to troll. Your asking for photos than can be found with a fucking 4 second google search. People have provided evidence throughout this thread and you've just dismissed it as shilling. Shilling dismissal by the way, the the resort of a man who has no argument. Here one of the photos of a burning pit.

>For people on the fence, all this brainwashy "all or nothing" and "evil stormfags vs us virtuous good people" bullshit tactics are very disingenuous. Not everyone who questions things, especially things where there are discrepancies, is a nazi or some cartoon cartoon caricature badguy.

Because you are being disingenuous Stormfags are disingenuous. People who genuinely question the holocaust don't use the arguments like this. They don't have pictures like your saved on their computer. The difference between a Stormnigger like you and someone genuinely curios is easy to spot. You argue like how hitler quoted Jews arguing.

By the way, answer the fucking questions you replied to Stormnigger, Cause you can't. You can only dodge around and post shopped lies.

I'll give you those photos after you prove Dresden actually happend.

wtf is that picture user? Everything is wrong, is it a satyrical joke?

yes.

Whats the end game for you holokek deniers?
1 million kikes died,100k kike dies?
All of them survived?
Id accept any figures as long as you bores fuck off

>he believe in the Dresden bombing
I bet you also think the Hybernian Cospiracy is just a bunch of bollocks, hu?

They want Facism to be legitimate again, and that won't happen as long as it's name is tied to one of the worst genocides in human history.

Don't listen to this fag That picture I posted is 100% factually correct. At best Dresden was a Nazi false flag to drum up symptathy and blot out their own war crimes. At worst, it's just bold face Nazi propaganda lie.

So the logic is by making the holocaust a genocide that killed thousands instead of millions would make fascism attractice again?

Not him, but I think the actual angle they're going for is that

>Let's try to convince these people that le holohoax is really a secret mastermind conspiracy of DA EVIL JOOOZ
Once you have that, they'll be receptive to all sorts of Nazi-style nonsense.

Pretty much, at least that's what they think. They can write it off from "one of the worst crimes in human history" to "just another case of human being evil, no ideological factors necessary"


They are trying to basically lower it so they can just whataboutism it to oblivion and push their ideals

Why would jewish nazi's be hanging a soviet flag?

100% correct? A plane built in 42 can't fly over Dresden before its bombing in 45? The population numbers not only are fucked up but show an important population in 1933(!) and this is called a village? And the painting is not the same lol... I mean I don't care if it was bombed or not but this picture is fucking hilarious.

>according to german sources this church was never "reconstructed"
dresden cathedral and semperoper were both reconstructed in the 1980s

Krauts pls go. We all know you work for KIDF

>But that's not what was taught as a fact for many years to people in western schools, literature and museums... that 4 million died there was what was taught. That's the problem.
But that is false.

Literally never taught that ever

Sonderkommando photos show them burning bodies outside in a pile. I don't know if it was a standard practice.

Not him but I was taught "8 to 10 million people were gased int the death camps".

I was too, but 4 million in Aushcwitz alone? never taught that.