Why are /pol/ and /leftypol/ so retarded?

>"Fucking oppressive democracies, I wish I lived in a totalitarian state under Hitler/Stalin. Now that would be freedom!"

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More freedom=less freedom you cuck. Don't you get it. When people get freedom they will inherently act in ways that strip it from them

When will they realise that theocratic distributism is the only way?

Hitler and Stalin ruling together at the same time?Now that would be interesting.

I find it more funny that most Prusianboo are American.
Prussia was a epitome of state taxing and regulating everything.

>most Prusianboo are American.

95% of Americans don't know what Prussia is

freedom isnt actually easily and requires a certain degree of responsibility and mental ability. Retarded loser millennials cant handle it, freak out, and revert to begging for a big daddy tier government to wipe their asses for them. This is the core of both of them, the only difference is really what aesthetic they find "cooler" then they pick one, learn all the dead propaganda lines from dead regimes, and spout them again

That's probably part of the problem

Yes and? You can probably replace Prussia with anything non-American and still be right

Exactly.

>Why are /pol/ and /leftypol/ so retarded?
/leftypol/ here. Democracy is of zero value for me, because it isn't democracy: the Capital is always the one to rule, and most of the freedoms of a liberal democracy are just as intangible.

Now, a liberal Republic is a very potent and efficient system too, but not because of freedumb or muh rights.

leftypol is on average, a lot less retarded.
That's what makes them a bigger deal than pol shitposting.

There's far less people posting there so that's expected.

>Democracy is of zero value for me,
Yes, because you think you are right and hold the absolute truth and everybody else is wrong and a sheep and the world would be so much better if you could take all the decisions for everybody as a benevolent dictator.
Fortunately the question is academic only.

>most of the freedoms of a liberal democracy are just as intangible.
Literally what the fuck does this even mean? No, no, stop it, I'll save you the hassle: it doesn't mean anything. "Freedoms" are inherently intangible, you idiot.

Anyway, this is such a fucking sheltered viewpoint. The second you have to live without the rights, freedoms and protections you take for granted in our "fake democracies" you will change your tune (and no, if you happen to have taught English for a year in China or wherever, that doesn't fucking count). Shitting on liberal democracy is a luxury that you have because you were lucky enough to be born in a prosperous and ** free ** country.

>Yes, because you think
Can you fucking read? It is of zero value to me because it is not, functionally, a democracy. Liberal Republic tends to oligarchy, and populist communist oligarchy has certain advantages over a plutocratic liberal oligarchy. One such advantage is that it doesn't pretend to be something it is not.

>leftypol is on average, a lot less retarded.
No, they are just more educated and have slightly better manners. which makes for a better discussion but does not really help when some guy is trying to push his 19th century agenda down 21st century throats. Like Marx as a theory is fucking dead, social progress isn't and flinging dogmas that long have been disproved by reality don't help.

So your post to that user is basically be grateful with what you already have? That is not an argument [spoiler] especially when the 'greatest' republic's citizens has been proven to have no effect on national policy [/spoiler]

>Literally what the fuck does this even mean?
That these freedoms have a merely decorative and ideological purpose.
>The second you have to live without the rights, freedoms and protections you take for granted in our "fake democracies" you will change your tune
It is reverse, actually. I am Russian, and I did, indeed work abroad.

So wait, I happen to live in a direct democracy, my town is run by mix of Socialist, Green and Anarchists, I vote on every issue of my constitution from taxes to immigration laws. But then I am a puppet because free market economy and you know my situation better than I do.
Thas about right?

It's just contrarianism. The normal form of government today is liberal democracy so they LARP as things directly antithetical to that. Same goes for Veeky Forumsfags who LARP as "monarchists."

Some of the stormfags arn't exactly larping, because they really mean it. also tons of larpers that shit up Veeky Forums
Commiefags are larping, but only because Communism is so btfo and the idea is absurd. not so many larpers around
Monarchfags are indeed larping contrarians, but they are fun, harmless and belong to the Veeky Forums crew.

>So wait, I happen to live in a direct democracy
That's certainly a good thing, and I believe that Switzerland, for instance, has one of the best, if not the best political system. But no matter where you live, you (or general population) still do not control global decisions and central management - even if you have some local autonomy.

The matter of fact - which is becoming a common knowledge after a short lived triumph in the Cold War - is that a Liberal Republic is not the most moral or the most efficient government in itself, but rather circumstantial.

>but only because Communism is so btfo and the idea is absurd
Neoliberalism today is in downward spiral, and all kinds of Marxist-born ideologies are regaining positions all over the world.

>tfw no roman republic where stalin and hitler are elected consul and co-consul and a civil war breaks out because they keep vetoing each other's legislation

>tfw no roman republic where stalin and hitler are elected consul and co-consul and a civil war breaks out because they keep vetoing each other's legislation
Stalin would use his bureaucratic prowess and Hitler's delusions to disgrace Hitler before the senate, but Hitler would use fiery rhetoric and adventurism to launch a rebellion in remoted province - unless some assassins sent by Stalin wouldn't finish him first.

>It is reverse, actually. I am Russian, and I did, indeed work abroad.
Are you, now? Feel free to continue this conversation in Russian, then. I'm not going to, I freely admit that my written Russian is dogshit, but I can certainly tell a native speaker from somebody frantically using Google Translate.

If you are in fact Russian, go ahead and feel accomplished, because you type like an Anglo. For the time being, color me skeptical.

>That these freedoms have a merely decorative and ideological purpose.
Yeah? Bullshit. To give one example out of literally hundreds, when you severely restrict people's freedom of movement (within their own country, anyway) it can economically cripple families, sometimes even whole towns (imagine all the jobs in your town drying up and not being allowed to move without express gov't permission). As far as rights, when they are removed it's quite clear afterwards that they weren't merely "ideological." The downgrade of the right to strike in America (to the freedom to strike, as some people have put it) has seriously hurt the working class.

Perhaps we should go tell the people suffering from the lack of those freedoms and rights that there's no problem because they were never more than "decorative."

>So your post to that user is basically be grateful with what you already have?
There is a difference between "be grateful" and "be content."

Sure, give me a call when the proletarian world revolution and the final downfall of capitalism is going to happen.

>Sure, give me a call when the proletarian world revolution and the final downfall of capitalism is going to happen.
So, you would accept nothing less than a complete worldwide triumph then? That's quite a strange perspective.

>Are you, now? Feel free to continue this conversation in Russian, then. I'm not going to, I freely admit that my written Russian is dogshit, but I can certainly tell a native speaker from somebody frantically using Google Translate.
Кaк я yжe cкaзaл, я paбoтaл нa инocтpaнныe кoмпaнии, и вooбщe имeю cклoннocть к инocтpaнным языкaм.
>Perhaps we should go tell the people suffering from the lack of those freedoms and rights that there's no problem because they were never more than "decorative."
Not all rights are decorative, but the ones most distinct for a Liberal Republic are, as the majority of citizens can't exersize them anyway. Freedom of press, for example. You cannot exercise them unless you are rich, and you can exercise it proportionately to how rich you are.

desu they just last longer before posting their retarded porky memes

[Curb Your Enthusiasm theme starts playing]

Agreed OP, "radical centrism" is the most cringeworthy meme in existence and anyone who uses it should kill themselves

>There is a difference between "be grateful" and "be content."
Not enough to make an argument

No, one first world country would shut me up already. Political reality is Marxism is dead, instead social democrats have achieved most goals by democratic means.

Technical and social progress have changed society so much that classic Marxist theories are dated and anachronistic and the dogmatic nature of Marxism prevents it from adapting to new circumstances.

You end up with the endless "my theory would work if" threads on the asshole of the internet.

Face it, the Hegelian dream of perfect humans in a perfect society was a shit idea.

>if I strawman hard enough, I won't have to actually understand what other people are saying!
Almost there OP

Hitler would get ice picked.

/pol/ here. Most of us are shitkins larping. I'm the 5'4" son of Cuban/Ecuadorian immigrants and on the internet I'm a blonde hair blue eyed 6'3" Chad that wants that damn wall built already.

>freedom isnt actually easily and requires a certain degree of responsibility and mental ability.
freedom requires a populace suitable for it. Sadly the freedoms in western world have been used to push for cultural and demographic replacement of people who care for and are capable of functioning in it.

Stalin might as well get Röhm'd by some easily impressible guards

But I don't want to live in a totalitarian state.

>blaming it on minorities

no, a lot of newly arrived immigrants are a lot more industrious and living examples of the "american dream" and usually do work more. The problem arises with middle to lower class natives who have no drive and who see the american dream not as "if you work your ass off, you can achieve success" but as "you can become a millionaire at the age of 22 if you follow your dreams and with little to no work!"

And sure a lot of immigrants come here just for gibsmedats and care nothing about America at all, but many are here working jobs like construction, something most of these leftypol/pol fags would never do because they think its beneath them.

>He I have not a single coherent opinion I am so smart

>Political reality is Marxism is dead, instead social democrats have achieved most goals by democratic means.
You are aware that all major social democratic parties were Marxist originally, yes?
>Marxist theories are dated and anachronistic and the dogmatic nature of Marxism prevents it from adapting to new circumstances.
Marxism, by its' nature, is extremely adaptive - and just because some don't adapt - it does not mean that all don't adapt. There are Marxist parties and governments all over the world, so it is, by definition, not obsolete.

the latter is the cultural replacement.
and no I am not blaming it on minorities - those who care for and are capable of freedom work as well as any other.
I'm thinking about culturally (and physically) replacing these people (both majorities and minorities) - it is the takeover of culture (either by corporative consumer culture or redistributive central organized "counter" culture which is as materialistically focused) on one hand and unchecked immigration on the other hand (from cultures and societies where "freedom" is a rather foreing concept - I know a lot of them would be the most freedom inclined individuals and that is one of the reason they are emigrating but if theres no check and we all go - no need to assimilate keep your own culture then it compounds the issue - also lots of the "freedom inclined" immigrants would more be the blue jeans and hollywood inclined individuals )

At least Stalin and Hitler are honest with this.
"Democracy" is rich faggots doing "stop punching yourself" prank on general population.

>muh responsibility
Great, when rich fags will start taking responsibility for their fuck ups, we can start talking. Start from Bush senior hanging himself for the shame of supporting Bin Laden when he was fighting soviets.
Then we will move to Bhopal, BP oil spill, GlaxoSmithKline scandal and numerous others.

Oh, and don't forget bombing Wall Street for all the crisises and bubbles they helped create.

"Responsibility" my ass. For poorfags and plebs, while rich cunts suck on government (and not only) tits the moment something goes wrong.

And americucks are actually happy with that.

>You are aware that all major social democratic parties were Marxist originally, yes?
Yeah, and they evolved into something that actually works. By accepting democratic rules and free market economy but still achieving social progress for humans.

>Marxism, by its' nature, is extremely adaptive
You mean by being set in stone and not having changed at all in its theoretical core since it was written down in the mid 19th century?

When they see the light and recognize the authority of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

it is the hobbes things. they think a strong central government is the only thing that can prevent tyranny

why wouldn't they

>yes, this is a copypasta i found
Now /leftypol/ and /pol/cucks i want you to remember where the fuck you are, you're on Veeky Forums, the place where we're 2 clicks away from watching demon futas rape each other to death, not just that; but on the most degenerate board as well, /r9k/.
So please, keep the "degeneracy" preaching to yourself.

Second, you know 0 fucking things about "your" ideology, aside from what propaganda /pol/ pushes into your little retarded brain.
Only thing most /pol/niggers know about 'fascism' is "muh wite rayce" and "muh westurd civilizayshun" (and they can't even define western civilization by the way), nothing more, no economy knowledge, nothing.

Third, should your shitty big government you dream of having ever happens, you'd be the very first to suffer, everybody suffers under a big government, everybody except the governmental ruling class.
It starts by censorship and removing free speech, such as blocking your favorite fucking website, Veeky Forums
then feeding you dubious amounts of propaganda till you break
then enslaving you, or throwing you in some corrupt jail/gulag forever
You don't realize the huge bliss of being born in a free country

Fourth, keep your obnoxiousness to yourself, you're now worse than bronies and furfags.

Wait, -- no infact keep preaching your bullshit, i really want to see how you'd break and cry when they take your precious neetbux

>but on the most degenerate board as well, /r9k/.
At least put in a minimum of effort

well it wouldn't be a copypasta then

>you can't change copypastas to make them fit the board you're on
You're wrong and I hate you

>The man of the future will be of mixed race. Today's races and classes will gradually disappear owing to the vanishing of space, time, and prejudice. The Eurasian-Negroid race of the future, similar in its appearance to the Ancient Egyptians, will replace the diversity of peoples with a diversity of individuals.
— Richard Nikolaus von Coudenhove-Kalergi
balder.org/judea/Richard-Coudenhove-Kalergi-Practical-Idealism-Vienna-1925.php

libertarianism and liberalism are no better than national-socialism. They share the same corrupt materialist root
It could be argued national-socialism is less dacedent than communism because somehow it preserves some kind of social order and are not so capitalist in nature as communism (the worship of money and labor) and in that regard this could mean national-socialism is the ''least bad'' socialist alternative.

This is contrarian larping at its best, pick some virtually unknown pan-europeanist, use a quote out of context and then go on with some incohesive anti liberal rambling. Don't forget to damn materialism and omit any to what would be better than it.
10/10 user

>Yeah, and they evolved into something that actually works
They have created these systems and policies to begin with. Everybody moves in pragmatic direction within a lifecycle.
>You mean by being set in stone and not having changed at all in its theoretical core since it was written down in the mid 19th century?
Compared to what? Are you suggesting that Nepalese Maoists are pretty much the same that Paris commune?

>Compared to what? Are you suggesting that Nepalese Maoists are pretty much the same that Paris commune?
No, they are 3rd world farmers that live a bit to close to China for their own good. Would you say there is much difference between them and how Mao wrote down is theories over 70 years ago?

Would you say core beliefs of Marxist economical theory or class analytics have changed a yota since they were written down? Would you say Marxist theory has learned out of its mistakes, like taking the hin that central planned economics don't really work, or party dictaturship is a shit idea? Or that social classes have developed completely contrarian to Marxist theory? Or admit there is something like "human nature" and it does not correspond with the official party doctrine?

incorrect, prussia is the spawn of the devil
everybody knows that

>but on the most degenerate board as well, /r9k/.
Bitch please /d/egeneracy is where it is at

>this user knows what's up

>Veeky Forums
I bet my liver you're actually a bald powerlifter from Poland, larping on Veeky Forums as a shitskin, that larps on /pol/ as an aryan chad

>"Democracy" is rich faggots doing "stop punching yourself" prank on general population.

Kek

So much this. Edgy for the sake of being edgy.

>populist communist oligarchy has certain advantages over a plutocratic liberal oligarchy
Sure, but on the whole plutocratic liberal oligarchy, of the modern variety, is much better. I don't really see how one could argue otherwise.

This. All the haters of liberalism should really just give up their nice Western citizenships and see what it's really like to live outside liberal societies. Except this would be so shitty for them, I wouldn't even encourage them to do it as a learning experience because I'm not heartless enough to want to see retards stop being retards by fucking their lives over.

Because if Hitler won then I'd have a girlfriend.

Take your retarded strawmen and fuck off
>t. Socialist blue collar

Where does Marx argue party dictatorship? Modern marxists sure don't

No, these guys can't speak English and shitpost mostly on Polish sites, like Wykop or Karachan. He's most likely your classic Veeky Forums type, an edgy anime loving teenager.

Russian-American here.
Modern Russia is relatively liberal compared to what it used to be. Would you prefer it if Russia became more totalitarian?
I can understand why a Russian wouldn't think much of liberal democracy given the shitshow of the 90s. But I don't think you should blame liberal capitalism just because Russia fucked it up. Russia fucks everything up. It is a nation that perpetually does not get its shit together.
In the West, liberal capitalism actually works well. There are lots of people who don't do well under it, but that's the case in any system. It's just that Westerners who are butthurt about liberal capitalism tend to be overrepresented on places like Veeky Forums.
Sure, capital can do a lot to sway votes. However, I think that the real key freedoms of Western democracies don't just come from voting rights - they also come from the fact that Western democracies have multiple separate institutions that co-exist within a liberal framework which dates back centuries. Western society isn't really shaped like a pyramid with a sharp tip - it's a truncated pyramid with multiple competing power groups on top, not all of which can be completely compromised or bought. Corporations, politicians, courts, military, and so on... all maintain certain checks on each other, and the broad body of voters maintains checks on them and in turn they maintain checks on it. It's not the case that one cabal of oligarchs controls everything. There is actually some degree of real respect for rule of law and liberal values. More than in most places, in any case.

>The downgrade of the right to strike in America
What downgrade? As far as I know, you're perfectly free to strike in America. What you're not free to do is to try to coerce or force other employers to respect your strike. Makes sense to me.
Am I unaware of something?

You may not like the truth, but real freedom is achievable only in the totalitarian state.

The West bled the rest of the world dry like a parasite for like 300 years, that's why it is so wealthy.

Did Russians in the 90s really think they can reach American/European standard of life in just a few years? How delusional do you have to be?

...

Yeah and I bet War is peace as well

Joke's on you, I'm Veeky Forums with an artist gf

Russia has had access to enormous amounts of material wealth for centuries now and it has a GDP the size of Italy. I don't think you can just blame this on the West.

Fuck off scab cunt

Sounds like heaven to me.

You should all stop being pussies. Humans literally need hardship like air in order to survive. If you don't have war, you don't value peace.

There are few things on earth which feel so fulfilling like being part of a big group which moves like a train to a goal.

But instead of satisfying this deep-ingrained human need with pointless stuff like sport matches or concerts or fucking cults, you could satisfy it in a way which REALLY has an IMPACT.

Wake up bros, you never truly lived and you don't even realize it.

only a strong state can protect its people against the enemies

>You should all stop being pussies. Humans literally need hardship like air in order to survive. If you don't have war, you don't value peace.
>There are few things on earth which feel so fulfilling like being part of a big group which moves like a train to a goal.
You're projecting your own distubed mental state and beta mentality on everyone. In reality, only people who resemble you are like that.

You do realize that not everyone here lives in shitty America where democratic ideals are the norm? Most people in my country (don't even ask) wouldn't mind dictatorship.

From a European perspective, if you are not working for the state the enrichment is a burden exclusively. And also a century of gibs has bred a human typus which is completely dependent on the state (either receiving gibs or distributing them). Of course they do not care for freedom.

>There are few things on earth which feel so fulfilling like being part of a big group which moves like a train to a goal.
I hate other ppl desu.

>hardship like air
Excuse me but what?

Because the horrors of communism and stalinism isn't that bad people do bad things — they always do. It's that good people do horrible things thinking they are doing something great.

>oppressive

Are you saying that italy isn't an economic superpower?

Also material wealth=/=richness

BTW your claim hasnt been true for the majority of Russian history

until the 18th centuries Russia was economically backward due to lacking sea access and was ravaged by swedish and polish invasions, as well as muslim slave raids. Materail wealth was irrelevant until the industrial revolution and was again backward due to dvoryan degeneracy. USSR had ONLY material wealth at first, it lacked technology and was again ravaged by wars. Not to mention it was under more or less constant sanctions in its entire existence. Its a miracle Russia even survived, let alone is in the top 10 economic powers.

BTW I don't care about free speech, as lon g as the state gives me a job because I can't find one because I'm autistic, my culture is preserved, and there are traditionalist gender roles.

So basically you're such a fucking loser you want someone to hold your hand through life because you can't do shit on your own

They're all just losers who want a sense of community and belonging. You should pity them not hate them.

Yes

>Miamifag detected

Hitler went to far by killing Jews but German society was flourishing under him. Nazism was given a bad name by a few bad apples but that doesn't mean its evil. Communism is inherently evil.

The Leftists are just useful retards who want to be edgy without consequences.

The so-called Nazis could be anyone, but it encompasses socialists who value nationalism which is a reasonable position but marked for death by liberals and corporations.

I don't want to import the entire third world, I also would like universal healthcare, I don't really want any radical systematic change so I guess I'm literally Hitler because only neo-Nazis gravitate to my belief while Leftists try every mental gymnastic to attack me.

>Oppressive democracies
>Oppressive
>Democracies
Why are liberals so retarded?

First of all, no fascist thinks that democracy is too oppressive, they see it as being too populist and "free". They don't value freedom on an individual scale , they value it on a collective level Second of all, only marxists are the ones with the retarded "dictatorship of the proletariat" ideas, anarchists and various other socialists do not share the concept of a one party state command economy

Who wants total freedom? Humans are naturally inclined to be self destructive when given freedom. The best would be a society that limits the bad kinds of freedom

Actually, this is what /pol/ *really* looks like.

A rare breed. Shame you have to throw yourself off a building for being a traitor.

>communist """""""""""""intellectuals"""""""""""""