Does lifting really contributes absolutely NOTHING in a fight?

Does lifting really contributes absolutely NOTHING in a fight?

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Lifting increases muscle strength
You use muscles to move
You move when you hit someone in a fight
So you use muscles when you fight
Stronger muscles = you hit harder

Therefore yes lifting theoretically makes you better at fighting, imagine fighting with a skinnyfat dude vs fighting klokov or Arnie

lifting does contribute to fighting ability, but only if you know how to fight. If you can't throw a proper punch you're just trying to polish a turd by lifting weights.

Also adding mass to your body does ideally make you harder to hurt.

However more muscles require more energy=smaller gas tank unless you do a lot of cardio.

Also lifting can increase tone (resting muscle tension) making you slow, unless you do relaxation work.

If there was a fight between someone who only lifts vs someone who only trains boxing, I would bet on the boxer.

it doesn't make you better at fighting, if anything it only makes your punches stronger and maybe you could take a few hits more than you would.

All other things equal (height, weight, level of fighting practice, mobility, ability to take a hit, etc) the guy who lifts more will hit harder than the other guy and do better overall. However most of that shit isn't equal so you have to take those factors into account

if you're stronger than your opponent and dont put yourself into a position that compromises yourself for a RNC.

lets say equal skill but different strength/power = ???

>you can take more punches
>you punch harder

So it does make you better at fighting. It won't make you good at fighting though.

>it doesn't make you better at fighting it just makes you a little bit better at the basics of fighting

assuming constant fighting ability between two people yes lifting weights would give an advantage
if you had a great deal of extra strength you could probably even over come someone with a slight edge in ability over you
if the person has a large amount of fighting ability on you though strength will start to matter very little

What

There is literally no downside to lifting and training a martial art. Lifting will make you stronger and give you a better idea of what muscles to activate and when.

Are you actually retarded?

Put a really strong BJJ black belt vs a weaker BJJ black belt and the stronger guy will have an advantage. There are a lot of moves in BJJ that are easier to execute if you're strong as shit. Like the kimura. See Jacare vs Marcelo Garcia as an example youtube.com/watch?v=Et6HRk72Fqc where Jacare basically out muscles him. So yes there's a benefit to being strong.

You retards don't get it. If you don't know how to fight, you get folded in an instant even if you endure one punch more.

Urist McWrestler has cleared been abusing Danger Room training.

clearly*

>Height doesn't matter if you're handsome!
>Muscles don't matter if you're tall!
>Being handsome doesn't matter if you're muscular!
>Being strong doesn't matter in a fight!
>Being good in a fight doesn't matter if you have a gun!
>A gun doesn't matter if you're already rich and living in an upper class area!
>Wealth doesn't matter if you're not manly!
>Being manly doesn't matter if you still have bitches all over you!
>Bitches don't matter if you're fit!

All these things matter, stop making these shit threads.

Everybody fucking roids in the BJJ scene. They have no testing whatsoever. So obviously strength matters if the top practitioners are juiced to the gills.

Strength and conditioning absolutely matter in fights. However, a fight between two untrained individuals is still a complete wildcard because no one knows what they're doing.

Learning to fight is the first thing you should do. Even if you're a huge guy with ridiculous numbers if you haven't trained some 140 lb string bean of a boxer will knock your fucking head off.

If size/muscles didn't mean shit why do they have weight classes? I mean sometimes the smaller dude wins (see pic related) but they have weight classes for a reason.

If you fight someone with the same fighting skill as you lifting will give you the edge. If you're fighting someone with actual fighting experience just close your eyes and think of a happy place cause you're gonna get shit on

It helps but fighters like to say is doesn't and act like their sport is hard.


Also this:
youtube.com/watch?v=YAXaCmky4Hw

Pic related wasn't an actual fight, either. Even in BJJ, the open weight winners and Superheavyweight tournament winners are usually the same person. In fact, the open weight final fight is usually the same TWO guys

That's still one more punch a person can endure than before you beanpole dicksuck

>If size/muscles didn't mean shit why do they have weight classes
It's a sport with rules. Those rules favor the heavier man (doesn't evenm matter if it's fat). Not to mention those rules and weight classes aren't nearly as old as the sports themselves and boxing and wrestling did fine without them for thousands of years.

The point isn't that lifting DOESNT help - it's that training to fight gets you infinitely better at fighting than getting strong does (shock)

So if a really good lifter who doesn't fight tries to fight a really good fighter that doesn't lift, the fighter will win (assuming non ridiculous weight/size differences)

It works vice versa, the fighter who doesn't lift won't be as good a lifter (double shock)

>lifting doesn't make you better at fighting it just makes you more durable and increases how much damage you can cause
Fucking retard.

If live were a game, lifting would give you stat boosts but not actual experience points

That's about the easiest way I could think of describing it

Think of it like having a big gun or some other form of weapon. If you have no idea how to use it, it doesn't count for much unless you get lucky.

Experience tops all else.

Not really. There's a wierd thing about how hard you hit, and it's kinda genetic i.e. people who hit hard are born to hit hard.

Lifting doesn't help a bunch in grappling tho. I'm a wrestler and I lift less then most guys on my team my weight, but when we wrestle I'm stronger than most of them

>hur dur it's so hard to point and shoot a gun
Bad analogy is bad

Size does matter, but in a fight how much you lift doesn't really matter. Roy nelson is one of the heaviest hitters in mma, but he isn't jacked. He's fat, and has skinny arms for his size. His body is just naturally built in a way that makes him hit hard, and he's skillful

Lmfao, all you people totally misunderstood the fucking picture. It only points out that the bench press is a total meme lift without real world application. Real men only press and do dips, fuck laying down beneath a barbell.

I had a teacher put it thusly:

being stronger and faster than the other guy never *lost* anybody a fight, but its not the most important thing.

consider one of his black belts was a 110# 4'11 woman that could whip any of the underbelts of any size with ease, I think he had some claim to authority

>If the exercise doesn't directly replicate a real life movement it has no use
>being this uneducated

This thread totally disregards what BJJ is about.

>Fun
>Thousands of (potential) hours of technique and growth
>Self-defense
>Self-confidence
>Being part of a team
>Amateur competition
>Tradition
>Non-sexual human contact
>Challenge
>A reason to not drink

You all are arguing about the extent to which strength helps without even considering what it's helping you with. BJJ is about a lot more than winning.

>people can't discuss a relevant, tangent factor of a sport theyre interested in
Fuck off hippy

thats bullshit. I hit way harder then my dyel friends that don't lift with boxing sparring gloves where its too painful take my blows with mitts as their whole body fidgets. If I never lifted and have twink shoulders and arms like everyone else I hit like a bitch.

>people can't

You better watch out, I'm after your guns next :^)

36 replies and nobody has mentioned what BJJ is actually like.

It's a factor but it's not the most important factor.

If you're untrained, and your opponent is well trained, you would have to be MUCH stronger, not just a little stronger, to overcome that.

e.g. look at the OP's picture. This is a bit of a simplified explanation, but basically to get out of that, the guy's close-grip lat pulldown weight would need to be able to overcome the other guy's deadlift weight. About the only way that's going to happen is if he's a bear mode powerlifter and the other guy is actually a girl.

>nobody discussed the subjective opinion of what bjj is about
>in a thread posing a specific question
Just piiiiiiisssss offfffff hipppyy

You mean one. Roger's retiring.

I don't understand you all. Why do you want to fight?

If you want to defend yourself in a street fight, all you need to know is how to throw a good KO punch (just get a punching bag and practice) or how to throw someone to the ground (so beginner judo, BJJ, wrestling)

If the fight you are in requires any more than this, it is not worth fighting, because you are endangering your life.

This is enough to defend yourself from a robber or from a drunk asshole.

You should only be concerned about whether lifting matters if you are professionally competing, in which case, ask your damn coach.

it amazes me that you fucks can't think out anything

there are weight classes because BOTH FIGHTERS KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING

but in a fight where one person is highly skilled and the other knows nothing but is strong and big - the smaller skilled person will win

why would you ask about lifting for fighting on a board of people who barely even actually lift, let alone get into fights? without even reading this thread i can already tell you 95% of it is going to be complete bullshit, jesus christ

>using logic and common sense on a mongolian throat singing thread
mirin the effort

Nice reading comprehension, faggot. That user didn't say weight mattered more than skill, just that it mattered. You're calling out a guy for saying exactly what you're saying.

>active hobby
>improve self confidence
>reduced anxiety
>meet new people
You can keep making love to your gun for self defence but some people want to do things and learn new skills, even if they'll never actually use it

Yes but then you are doing it for a hobby and not self-defence

So ask your coach

Fuck yes strength matters.I just wrestled a 170 lb blue belt (i'm 195) and choked him out (arm triangle if you're wondering). Being stronger means it should be easier to sweep them, put top pressure on them and of course control them.
strength/no technique

real gentlemen don't fight

Hitting hard is 90% good technique 7% setting up the knockout 3%genetics.
If you don't have accuracy/ good technique then having good power is way less useful. Look at Roy nelson, he used to hit like a truck but has a unidimensional striking game (it's literally wing the overhand right until they go to sleep or he loses). Stipe Miocic is the best example of a fighter with good power and good technique. He hits hard and does it consistently through good technique.

bench press totally applies to bjj though... You've clearly never had a 300 lb dude try to drive his elbow into your throat. Bench press helps with framing in side control/creating space, etc.

There is more than one reason to fight. BJJ is a co-ed activity.

There is a lot of technique involved in successfully executed the kimura without strength; the problem is that most people just try to muscle it. I spent the first 4 years specializing in Kimura and had a great coach for it due to his additional shooto/catch wrestling background. If you want to see good examples, look at Rose Namajunas kimura finished in TUF. That was all from my coach.

Although obviously some techniques require much less strength than others. The submission that requires the least strength is the heel hooks. A great example is the fight between Butterbean (420lbs) and Genki Sudo (145 lbs). Also note the takedown he uses - the low single which also direction attacks the knee joint.

No

Framing is not about muscle, it is about proper aligning of your arms so that you can support their weight without having to use any muscle. Ryan Hall explains it really well in one of his DVDs.

Bartitsu begs to differ :
fightland.vice.com/blog/ufc-origins-victorian-london

95% men. Although I rolled with two women today, which is rare.

>bartitsu

...

nobody is going to be impressed if you lift them up.

clean&jerk them through the ceiling, though...

Depends on what kind of fight we're talking about. Strength and overall size is a strong indication of who will when in a street fight

This the reason why they have weight classes in organized fighting sports

>nonsexual human contact
Like people don't get boners during

I bench 405. One punch and you're in a coma. Fuck off skinny twinks

>he thinks the power from a punch comes from your arms

I know women who can hit harder than you

whatever dude i like lifting and fighting is for dumbasses

Based on your posts, it's very ironic that you are calling other people "dumbasses"

in boxing or a martial art, no.

In a grab hold of eachother/ gouging/ chocking/ biting/ rolling around on the floor fight to the death, yes.

youtube.com/watch?v=KBSQEnvz6zo

vid related

>mfw Veeky Forumsfucks think adding mass will protect their pressure points

...

>thinks poking people's pressure points is going to be enough to end a fight
>go back to watching naruto you fucking weeb

I find it hilarious to find a df joke on Veeky Forums simply because df players seem unlikely to ever do deliberate, intense physical activity.

wow am I in middle school again

>getting this b8'd

Are you guys in high school or just new to Veeky Forums

Who cares about that if you want to win a fight, bring a pipebomb. Nothing beats a pipebomb.

It helps that Jacaré is also one of the best BJJ players ever. He's pretty equal in terms of skill with marcelo, being also 20 lbs heavier

Marcelo vs Ricco is an example of the skill disparity overcoming the strength/size difference.

>Lel mass means nothing I just have to circle him and he'll tire out
>Then I have to get close to hit and get wrecked but it has nothing to do with him being big and having abs ahahahah

this is true, you don't need much skill to beat an average dope. but judo, bjj, boxing etc is FUN to train..

99% of people (after the first year) aren't training for that one street fight they might get in one day - they keep going because its fun

What are Veeky Forumsizens experiences with fights?

>what's your age, height and weight?

>what martial art or any sport do you practice?

>have you ever whiteknighted (ie fought to defend a cumdumpster or some other weakling?)

>have you ever fought someone above your weight? (30lbs + difference)

>what was the most painful technique/method ever used against you in a fight?

>what's your age, height and weight?
23, 5'10'' 165lbs

>what martial art or any sport do you practice?
I did Kickboxing/Sanshou in my teens, now a BJJ blue belt

>have you ever whiteknighted (ie fought to defend a cumdumpster or some other weakling?)
Nope

>have you ever fought someone above your weight? (30lbs + difference)
Street Fighting no, I never fought anyone.

Rolling in class, yes, happens pretty much time I go and me being one of the lightest makes me meet people that outweight me by 30 to 80 lbs. If they have no experience it's pretty easy to beat them, but it gets increasingly harder the bigger they get. A 200lbs white belt can put up a good fight

>what was the most painful technique/method ever used against you in a fight?
A purple belt once ezkieled me so hard I thought I broke my windpipe. I've been slammed pretty bad by some ignorant mofos, and I usually cringe everytime someone leglocks me (calfslicers are fucking stupid).

Why do you say calfslicers are stupid? I think they've been used very effectively in a few pro MMA fights.

Also, is slamming done by inexperienced noobs in BJJ or is it people who know they shouldn't be doing it but don't give a fuck?

>DarkSoulsUnarmedRun.jpg

>19, 6'3", 190 LB

>boxing

>technically yes i guess, was about 17 and some dude was picking on a kid on the bus ride home for reasons i can't remember, wasn't really willing to fight him over it but he sperged out and started swinging so i clocked his ass

>yes, some fat kid at a party when i was like 15

>fat kid hit me with a rock and it gashed by head open, beat the ever loving shit out of him after that

I'm not saying they suck, they are legit as fuck. They just scare me and usually hurt like hell.

In regards to the slamming, it's both. Some first class big guys that get caught in triangles and pick me up and think it's ogre to fucking slam me. That is usally my fault for not warning them.

Sometimes there are strong white belts that just do that shit to escape subs and try to pass it as a "I fell down".

>Inb4 someone tells me it's my fault for not letting go and letting them pick me up in the first place

dont be a fucking bitch

you shouldnt have to "warn" anyone about not slamming you, if you let them slam you - you shouldn't have a blue belt.

underhook the leg you fucking idiot as they try to stand

>underhooking the leg of a big ass dude that squats and deads double your bodyweight

It's not always that easy senpai

wow that guy in the orange threw a really shitty punch. No surprise the other guy laid his ass out on the tarmac

u got a technical blue belt from gracie academy online didnt u

Being stronger obviously means you hit harder, but you would hit much harder again if you actually knew what the fuck you were doing.

get in my guard ill focking choke u nigga

you get belts in wrestling? I thought that wrestling was rigged, why would there be a ranking system?

Get a load of this pedantic fuck. Not even the guy you're quoting but post a video of one of your matches, show us your skills or stfu. It's so easy to claim how you would do things differently and better. Seriously, faggots like you ruin every single martial arts thread on Veeky Forums including /asp/. I could bet my left testicles how your only experience in any martial arts come from the Naruto box set.

It helps, provided that you actually train jitz. There's a reason there's weight classes and bigger guys always do better against smaller guys, with few exceptions.

You would think so but I have seen more than one person hurt themselves trying to fire a gun. People are fucking stupid.

>implying you cant have all that and a way to kick the shit out of people.

Based Gunni

i encourage people to stand up in triangle setup, i underhook the leg and toss them over and get my other leg over the face for the armbar..

i think competing in bjj is fucking dumb, unless you're a legit phenom. best case scenario i win a dumb medal. bjj is expensive enough as it is.. why would i pay 100$ to go compete

>tfw no one wanted to start fights with you as a kid because you were 6 foot tall by 15-16
Didnt stop them talking shit though.

Yes, definetly for more reasons than just "hitting harder". More core strength, endurance and knowing your body (this one especially). Better reflexes and speed.