Push Pull Legs Advice

Do some research on programming.
Fullbody programs and low volume high frequency training is best for natty lifters.
Dont get memed by the bros from fit,you will waste your time.

retard scooby logic

you could do pull/push/legs to give time for your lower back to rest for legs, that's what i do and i also grow in terms of leg mass really quickly - the beauty of PPL is that you can just slice days out if you're snowballing too hard - just do an A/B switch with your leg days where one week you do two leg days and the next you only do one day of legs

Naw, man. I did my time on 5x5 and now I want to make some gains. I'm not gonna do a noob strength program forever.

also ignore this retard too

>Veeky Forums what program should I start with?
>Starting Strength
>Veeky Forums I've pretty much exhausted my gains on Starting Strength what should I do now?
>Starting Strength
I fucking hate you guys sometimes. You have to really be a fucking brainwashed retard to think that the only people making gains on splits are roiders. You know hypertrophy is real right? You know that if you want to be aesthetic training for strength doesn't make sense right? You know that splits are so popular because they work right?

Too much for everything IMO. Here is my 4 days/week routine: ( Back - shoulder- chest / Legs - arms )

- Monday -
5 x 10 Chest supported row
4 x 8 Push press
5 x 10 Chin ups
4 x 8 Close grip Bench
3 x 12 Cable upright row

- Tuesday -
5 x 8 Front squat
4 x 12 Single leg deadlift
3 x 12 Tri push down
3 x 12 Ez curl
3 x F Farmer walk

- Thursday -

5 x 6 Weighted pull up
5 x 10 weighted dip
4 x 12 dumbbell row
4 x 12 dumbbell overhead press
3 x 15 Facepull

- Saturday -
4 x 10 Bulgarian split squat
4 x 12 single legged deadlift
3 x 12 skull crusher
3 x 12 hammer curl
3 x F Farmer walk

Do burpees for cardio on the other days.

-Push-
Weighted dips (and compounds in general) should be done before accessory exercises for better performance.
remove the front raises,add a triceps accessory.
Every exercise should be 4 to 6 sets of 10-15 repetitions if you're aiming for hypertrophy (src NASM)

-Pull-
You should first do: deadlift->chinup->cable row first for better performance.
Do compounds before accessories.
Maybe add hammer curls.

-Legs-
your order of exercises is fucked up here too.
it has no cohesion.

general notes:
on your main lifts (1x3) you want to up the reps since you said you want hypertrophy gains.try 8-12 reps. for the rest you want 10 to 15.
up your sets from 3 to 4.

Ofc ignore me,listen to this faggot who doesnt know jack shit.
You can make gains on a split program,but compared to a full body its going to be slower.

m.jap.physiology.org/content/73/4/1383
You need to hit a muscle group with high frequency to keep getting protein synthesis after 2 days no matter how high volume your training was,protein synthesis stops so it makes full body programs superior.
m.ajpendo.physiology.org/content/273/1/E99.short
Another research.
Now listen to these fuckheads that doesnt know shit but giving advice from their asses,or listen to these scientific facts.
Choice is yours.

This guy is mostly right. Try PHUL instead, maybe add in a fifth "fun" day if you want. Move on to PHAT when you graduate.

I ran PPLxPPLx for a while, but it will eventually stagnate or catch up with you. Especially if you're not a NEET.

>doing all these retarded variations instead of the basic movements. Your routine is shit.

>m.ajpendo.physiology.org/content/273/1/E99.short
>8 untrained volunteers

m.jap.physiology.org/content/73/4/1383
>12 dudes doing bicep curls

until you post a pic of your shitty DYEL body and 10 actually decent citations you're a retarded faggot that is objectively wrong

r8 my summer PPLP(b)P(b)Lx routine, too much free time edition.

Pull
Weighted Chins 5x5
Barbell Rows 5x5
Neutral Grip pullups 3x8
T-Bar Row 3x8
Pullup 3x8
Preacher curl 3x8
Hammer curl 3x8

Push
DB Press 5x5
OHP 5x5
Dips 3x8
Incline BP 3x8
Dips 3x8
Skull Crushers 3x8

Legs
Squats 5x5
Deadlifts 1x5
Hanging Windshield Wipers 3x8
Hanging Leg raises 3x8
(my boy rippletoe understands how to properly train legs)

Pull(b)
same as the first Pull but I remove Hammer Curls and Pullups if I didnt get a good surplus of Cals
Push(b)
OHP first instead of DB press and I remove one Dip3x8 if I didnt get a good calorie surplus

basic movements for basic people.when you get advanced you need accessories.shit you need them anyway if you want to be aesthetic.

What are your lifts? Serious question. OP here and I'm repping
>DL 320
>Squat 285
>Bench 195
>OHP 145
Are your lifts higher than that? Or are you on your first month of SS and decided that the gains will last forever? Have you noticed that the aesthetic bros at your gym don't do fullbody every other day routines? Have you noticed that even the tubby powerlifters don't do that either? Even the old man with the beer belly and huge arms doesn't do that bullshit. 5x5 beginner programs don't work forever. And what a coincidence: the subjects of the research you shared were all BEGINNER lifters.

Ah then show me your big research on hypertrophy programs that proves its better.But wait there is fucking none.
If you need more than 2 research then you are the retard here you fuck.

lol @ all these newfags who think more days in the gym means more gains.

Enjoy spinning them wheels until you get back on a real routine.

you still do the basic movement retard, you probably don't even need those assists and just think you look cool doing them.

lifting is fun desu

>"more than 2 research"

just because all you have are those kiln-hardened shit maces to swing around pajeet doesn't mean everybody else has to do the same shitty 3x5 program

lets see your body bro

PHUL is a shit program for someone like you. Do candito LP or Lyle Mcdonald's generic bulking program or something of that sort. You need to build your endurance and form and some more strength before you try the hypertrophy focused programs like the one you posted.

This is what I'm doing right now. Power means I just do whatever sets I feel like and go heavy, working up to singles or doubles, occasionally triples. Feel free to alternate lower body days so that one day you do power squats and RDLs and the other you do deadlifts and leg press, I prefer doing deadlifts and belt squats because back squats feel like shit and give me no gains but alternating is better. Arm work is optional but recommended.

I do rows either chest supported or seated on a bench slightly bent over with the cable pulley at my ankles. I'm also considering switching out chins for face pulls because I can't perform well on them after rows. The best row variation for this program is probably bent over dumbbell rows so that you can support your back with your other arm and knee, but I suck at those. I wouldn't recommend doing bent over barbell rows since back training is split into lower and upper, see candito's video on DB rows vs BB rows. I usually do calf raises 5x5 with a barbell and cable crunches or ab wheel for abs.

L:
Power Deadlift
Belt Squat or Leg Press 3-4x6-10
Lunge or Split Squat 2-3x8-12
Hamstring curl 2-3x12-15
Calf Raises
Abs

U1:
Power Bench
Rows 3-4x6-8
OHP 3-4x8-12
Chins 2-3xF (3 min rests)
Lateral Raise 1-2x12-15
Curls 1-2x12-15
Pushdowns 1-2x12-15

U2:
Power OHP
Rows 3-4x6-8
Bench 3-4x8-12
Chins 2-3xF (3 min rests)
Lateral Raise 1-2x12-15
Curls 1-2x12-15
Pushdowns 1-2x12-15

Do you have any science behind your claims that hypertrophy programs are better ? No? Ah you can fuck off and do your retarded shit to yourself,dont give advice to newbies.

I wasn't suggesting he do SS. I was suggesting that he do PxPxLxx. You can still do a split this way, with high rep ranges and isolation exercises. The fact is that most people can not lift 6x/week and expect to recover fully. If you can, you are the exception and not the norm. You can't assume that everyone has great genetics.

have fun going 3 days a week. you probably squat the bar DYEL

post a pic of your body pajeet

k but seriously i love going to the gym 6 days a week

what routine is best for that?

m: back/bis
t: chest/tris
w: legs
th: back/bis
f: chest/tris
s: legs
su: rest or whatever you want

add cardio onto that last day and you're golden

Actually, I take that back, PHUL is a perfectly fine program for your goals OP, I was thinking of PHAT. PHAT will snap your shit up and tell you to do dumbbell bench press for heavy weight low reps instead of just benching like a normal sane person and enjoying your bigger numbers.

So basically

reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/37ylk5/a_linear_progression_based_ppl_program_for/

How does it feel to have top-tier genetics? Go fuck yourself.

yea, that's what the guy wanted and what the thread is about

Ah here we go,you dont have anything to say do you,all you have left is ad hominem attacks.
Feelsgoodman.jpg

PPLxPPL is fine just reduce the volume from the OP.

I do the same but only 4-5 exercises per day.

are you implying that your physique is so shitty and horrible to look at that just suggesting it is an insult? nice job, glad nobody will be taking advice from you because you're DYEL and won't prove otherwise

4-6 sets at 10-15 seems like a lot for growth, no?

I've always heard lower reps with more weight for growth. i.e.: 3 sets 6-5-4

A smarter idea would be to train 4 days on 1 day off version of a 4 day split. Something like this:

Day 1: Chest and Tris
Day 2: Back and Bis
Day 3: Legs
Day 4: Shoulders
Day 5: Off/cardio

Keep shoulder day limited to dumbbell work so you don't work triceps twice as much as every other muscle or you'll probably look imbalanced.

It isn't ad hominem to ask for verifiable proof other than some weak science publishings you fucking retard. Show us your doughy brown body.

Every set/rep combination will result in growth when programmed correctly as long as you don't do too little volume (heavy singles/doubles/triples or very few sets)

Do you think I am going to get my phone and post a pic of my body to prove myself a retarded faggot like you ?
I am trying to help to OP because of he is getting memed hard by fucktards that doesnt know anything.

i just put rear and medial delt with back day and anterior with chest day, don't see much of a point in having an entire day for something that is 2/3rds worked with other muscle groups

Low reps, high weight is usually considered strength. This is typically 3 to 5 reps.

Moderate reps, moderate weight is usually considered "hypertrophy". This is usually 8 to 12 reps, though sometimes as low as 6.

High reps, light weight is usually for endurance. This is usually 15+ reps. The notable exception is stubborn muscle groups like calves and forearms.

>that doesn't know anything

you can barely speak english, why would anyone trust you? just admit to the fact you're a retarded dyel shitskin because it literally takes only like a minute to take a picture and post it

ty

This routine is hot garbage. Try this one instead.

Trip on Trap

OP looks good

I would add stiff legged deadlifts right after squats. Those are my favorite for Hams/glutes

Fit is filled with retards nowadays.
I gave you 2 research,give me a single research that hypertrophy programs is better for natural lifters than I will post a pic of my body for you.

OP how long were you on SL? Did SL for a month and then PPL routine for 2. I stalled on strength while doing PPL and went back to SL, got stronger!

i'd recommend adding sitting calf raises to legs

6 months. As I stated earlier I am repping
DL: 320
Squat: 285
Bench: 195
OHP: 145

>I gave you 2 research,give me a single research

dude holy shit go back to the zone from STALKER or something you're killing me with this retarded ass broken english of yours

the burden of proof is on YOU for saying hypertrophy programs don't work, so that means unless you can actually prove it by posting a pic of your DYEL ass and blowing me out of the water with it then you are wrong - your research is shit and doesn't matter, all that matters is how your program is better based on how you look, either post pic now, or get

The way I'd structure that split is something like this:

Chest & Tris:

Bench
Incline Bench
Cable Crossover
Dips
Pushdowns

Back & Bis:

Rows (chest supported)
Weighted Chins
DB Rows
Pulldowns
Curls

Legs:
Squats
RDLs
Leg Press
Leg Curls
Calves

Shoulders:

Shoulder Press
Lateral Raises
Face Pulls
Reverse Flies
Abs

The reasoning for the standalone shoulder day is mostly to maintain good shoulder health by having 4 non internal rotation pulling exercises per cycle to balance the 3 pushing movements on chest day and to make sure shoulder progression is smooth and not affected by pushing movements that take priority on chest day. A total of 6 pull to 3 push movements. The more days you split your work into, the more freedom you have to make sure your routine is as balanced as possible.

Shoulders are a priority for any good physique, especially in more advanced lifters, it makes no sense to train them as an afterthought. The same thing goes for legs, if you do a pull day with heavy deadlifts at the start, you're not going to squat your max the day after on leg day and you're not going to be able to progressively overload after a while, so there's no point in making squats your primary leg movement that day since you're getting severely reduced benefits.

He posted that full body routines are optimal for size gains with two articles as evidence. I don't think his claim is necessarily that hypertrophy routines don't work. Also I don't think you quite understand logic fallacies if you think he needs to find research against your claim. (Where is your pic, btw)?

Yeah I've made some minor adjustments including replacing the standing calf raises with seated calf raises. My calves are in-proportionately strong compare to everything else so the Idea of resting 400 lbs on my shoulders doesn't really appeal to me.

Standing and seated calf raises both train different muscles friend. Either use a machine or do high volume high rep standing calf raises. Utilise other techniques to reduce stress on the body like pausing reps in the contracted position for several seconds or a dip belt.

>Yeah I've made some minor adjustments including replacing the standing calf raises with seated calf raises.
that will put the strain off your gastrocnemius and into your soleus (assuming you mean straight vs bent knees)
why not do both?

he's saying they don't work in comparison to full body routines, and 2 shoddy studies like i said don't count

YOU don't seem to understand logical fallacies or even arguments in general if you think you don't need to have evidence to prove something wrong - he called hypertrophy shit, he needs to prove it with showing how good he looks fully body programs, not me; every board on here has their own way of winning arguments, Veeky Forums has talk shit post fit, /k/ has gun displays, /tv/ has cunny folder sizes, Veeky Forums has CBTs, until he draws arms and shows me that shit body, i and everybody else will assume he's wrong

So in other words you're retarded. Got it.

>get BTFO with common sense
>"y-yur j-j-just re-retarded"

get madder faggot

Not him, you're autistic, full body programs have the most supporting research however splits have the best ancedotal evidence. Lift however you want and do whatever gives you the bet results and stop being autistic. Posting guns or cb is not winning the argument, it's winning a dick measuring contest.

You seem pretty upset, friend.

get madder faggots

either post bodies or be forever DYEL

...

>you think you don't need to have evidence to prove something wrong
He has posted more evidence toward his claim than you have... All you have supplied is ad hominem.

>blatantly samefagging

Looks boring as fuck. Whatever floats your boat I guess

PHUL's working pretty well for me and my lifts are similar to yours OP.

PPL looks fun but desu if you have a job/are active/have a social life then it's hard to keep up with. Upper-lowers 4x a week give you a good mix of volume and rest.

Is it better to do shoulders on leg day ke chest and tricep day

Or*

Please respond

Depends on your goals. If you want to OHP heavy it has to go on a push day which includes triceps. If you just want big shoulders, you can put it on leg day and do dumbbell work.

i'm doing this + u/l

like thios: lower/uper/rest/legs/push/pull/rest

going great atm, had PPLPPLX before and it was to much, stopped gaining muscle after like 1 month. lifting since 5 months

stupid fuck

enjoy being skelly forever, ive gained 20kg (total, not lean, mass) in the last year doing a split 5 days a week 2 hours training

This smells of trappy.
He is the most cancerous thing to happen to this board. Swear on me mum

I can only do a six day split if i'm bulking. My body can't handle it on a cut so i've been doing 5/3/1.
I can't fuckin wait to be bulking again so i can go back to high volume training. Gonna be sick