TFW a single Tren blast is worth about 4-5 years of natty gains

This. a thousand times this.
If you're prepared to cycle until you're 60, go for it. But know that after just one gear blast any gains you make will go just as fast as they came once you hop off.

>Be doomed to a life of being natty
You will never have the pleasure of making it as a natty, It's an infinitely better feeling knowing that you got your body through hard work instead of cheating.

Sad!

This

>>If you're natty, muscles stay after you stop your cycle and you develop natural muscle memory.

>Why do you think you wouldn't develop muscle memory with roids?

Nice argument or explanation

>You will never have the pleasure of making it as a natty, It's an infinitely better feeling knowing that you got your body through hard work instead of cheating

Do you think that when you roid you don't have to lift or eat anymore? The muscle just magically gets extracted from air particles and attaches to your body?

>But know that after just one gear blast any gains you make will go just as fast as they came once you hop off

What's your point though.

Besides the cost that's not a negative in any way. You get to enjoy your roided gains for a while, that's a lot better than never having roided gains at all

>Do you think that when you roid you don't have to lift or eat anymore? The muscle just magically gets extracted from air particles and attaches to your body?
I never implied this.

I implied that people who are huge and natty worked 100x harder for their bodies than those who cheat.

Using shit is a very weird sticky situation. On one hand you have no reason to do it because you're not some sort of athlete nor do you make a living off of your physique. But on the other hand you have no real reason not do it because it increases your strength and size very easily and as long as you're not stupid about it you can stay healthy and live a long life.

I'll take my healthy heart, normal sized testes, work ethic, and natty gains any day.

>I implied that people who are huge and natty worked 100x harder for their bodies than those who cheat

So what?

It's not a competition. That's like saying "The guys who do a fucktarded routine and don't count calories had to work 10000x harder for their bodies than those CHEATING PLEBS who count calories and did starting strength before moving onto an intermediate routine".

Doesn't it make more sense to meet your goals using the most efficient methods available to you?

You can't just set artificial limits and then decide everyone needs to follow them or else they're cheaters.

What does 2/3/4/5+ mean?

>2/3/4/5+?

No one overhead presses 225

>So what?
As I said, it is far more satisfactory to get your gains by working hard. Learn to read please.

>It's not a competition. That's like saying "The guys who do a fucktarded routine and don't count calories had to work 10000x harder for their bodies than those CHEATING PLEBS who count calories and did starting strength before moving onto an intermediate routine".
If you can't see the difference between deliberately cheating vs. being a noob then I'm sorry for your parents as they had to raise a mop like yourself.

>Doesn't it make more sense to meet your goals using the most efficient methods available to you?
Not if those goals are entirely superficial and the way you earned them was hazardous for your long term health

>You can't just set artificial limits and then decide everyone needs to follow them or else they're cheaters.
You're right, but I'm not setting artificial limits. I'm describing one wholly natural and good for your health process (lifting while natty) vs. a man-made, very much dangerous for your health process (Roiding)

Your heart health wont suffer from one tren blast im sure, just get bloodwork done to make sure youre all good

>As I said, it is far more satisfactory to get your gains by working hard. Learn to read please.

Maybe for you, but not for everyone.

You could make the argument that training using bodyweight, eating only vegan food and not counting calories or macros is also much more satisfactory to get gains by working hard and inefficiently.

>If you can't see the difference between deliberately cheating vs. being a noob

How is it cheating? It's not a competition where people agree to the rules and sign a paper claiming they will not use Performance Enhancing drugs as outlined by the committee.

Is Creatine and Whey also cheating because some fuckhead like you thinks that he's better because he doesn't use it?

>Not if those goals are entirely superficial and the way you earned them was hazardous for your long term health

Who are you to say whose goals are superficial and whose aren't?

Someone who doesn't lift might claim your goals as a natty are superficial. Does it make him right?

>hazardous for your long term health
[citation needed]

youtube.com/watch?v=TzV4EZb2NMs

no but they can do this

you can make an entire years worth of gains from a 6 week oral cycle

it's about the journey, not the destination

Is it fair to say that the journey on roids is better than without them?

Pressing 2 plates, benching 3, squatting 4, deadlifting 5plus

K going to doctor to get tested and praying.

Lol, he just pressed more than I dead.

ITT: Bitter fatties who blame their shitty bodies on being natty.

keepable? wut would this be

bump

natties btfo

I do, shoulderlet
>Inb4 fatfuck
5'10 180lbs

80% of fit cannot afford steroids

90% of fit will lose all gains once they cycle off should they happen to get a batch

100% of steroid threads on Veeky Forums are pointless, it's a fantasy thread

>80% of fit cannot afford steroids

You can afford them on a min wage job.

A vial of test is $30-50

80% of fit cannot afford steroids

What makes you say that?

A minimum wage job can afford it. you can mow 5 lawns a month and afford yourself a vial of test and AI

is this real tho or just broscience?

are you supposed to start that high up? I bring it down to my collar bone.

80% of fit cannot afford steroids

100% are NEETs on bennies
80% spend their money on tendies

I can afford I just don't know where to get them and I'm not fully educated about long term affects. What can you take orally?

Op just lift for 4 years naturally until you have a good strength base, then try a cycle of test and see how you feel about it. Nobody should use Tren for their first cycle lol. I got crazy stretch marks on my first test cycle, can't even imagIne what they would be like using Tren as your first cycle. Also test is cheap ad dirt, especially if you live in the us

don't

People who say you lose all your muscle as soon as you stop roiding don't know what context is.

If you just started lifting and did 1 cycle of anything, you will keep that muscle. The natural amount of test in the body would easily be able to keep that up

You get them by making friends with people on steroid forums. They will usually have a thread for members of Individual countries, so you comment in them and usually someone will pm you. They then tell you to download a messenger app called Wickr and them on it. Sorry if this didn't mKe sense I'm at a solid 8/10 right now

Why not earn your muscles instead of cheating for them, you gormless sad sacks?

the only worthwhile steroids are injectable.

Where buy tren in the UK?

the moral question of steroids is whateves

the reason nobody should do it is because they're playing for the short-term, and there's a lot of possible side-effects later in life

fitness is about health, aesthetics should always be a secondary goal.

You're an annoying person

Super easy.

Just get them off the darknet and make sure to only buy them from very trusted vendors (most have rankings depending on how much activity they do)

google "darknet marketplace"

>cheating
lmao @ ur life

there are no rules in life. enjoy natty lifting and no gains.

>buying roids from darknet
completely retarded

keep that for recreational drugs

do what you want but also you should be able to see that if steroids gives you bad health consequences you sholdn't do it

if you want the TRUTH, you should know that after some stage normies can't realize differences in gains as other bodybuilders, if you get on tren you will impress other bodybuilders rather than that qt you like. Normies probably can't see the difference between Brad Pitt's fight club physique and Dwayne Johnson physique, they both go to their "guys ripped" folder in their minds

Also you should be able to see that the natty endgame is becoming less obsessed with bodybuilding and training for a rich life of acceptance and kindness while the roid endgame is becoming rich piana

Just roid. You'll get the body you always wanted. You don't have to be as strict with your diet. You can do this working out in 45 min sessions. Chicks will love your body. You will feel more confident.

The only downside is some dyels and neckbeards on this board will think less of you.

Not a hard choice.

>having to blast and cruise just to ruin your test levels
Na

>If you just started lifting and did 1 cycle of anything, you will keep that muscle

is there any reason NOT to do one cycle for beginners then?

Seems like free muscle.

you'll have to inject. Orals kill your liver, they're only really used for the first couple weeks to frontload until the injectables start.

SST

health, longevity

play for the long term

You will not want to stop at one cycle. Also, don't forget that there are side effects that you may not want to risk experiencing .

>Just roid. You'll get the body you always wanted. You don't have to be as strict with your diet. You can do this working out in 45 min sessions

Fuck man i really want to but I'm just worried about sources or whatever not being around later so I'd have to stop.

Fuckkk, what do. I'm so close to training for another 3-4 months and just buying a cycle of test, AI and pct

>health, longevity
>play for the long term

One cycle of testosterone will not kill you. or cause ANY side effects long-term, hell not even short term

>retarded Natty's ask questions

C-can I just do one cycle to get lean? I'm okay with natty progress for muscle gain, but I have such a hard time cutting.

1 cycle netgains are not going to be groundbreaking, and genetics still are largely at play

there's a high chance 1 cyclefags will lose all gains shortly after getting off, because their diet and workout routines are shit to begin with

not worth

Nope, it's bodyweight

>he thinks a cycle of testosterone will make him get huge gains in a month

man, testosterone doesn't do anything in the first few months, you are thinking of other steroids

test e, AI, and PCT are so common and cheap to produce that you won't get bunk gear.

plenty of legit, quality sources on reddit sst

Who said huge gains?

16 weeks of 500mg test-e is not bad gains at all though. Dbol for first few weeks and you're talking more gains in a couple months than 2 or 3 years of lifting

>test e, AI, and PCT are so common and cheap to produce that you won't get bunk gear.
>plenty of legit, quality sources on reddit sst

Oh yes I know. I've been researching them.(them being sources)

But the thing is that I'm concerned with staying on long-term. Yeah the sources exist and are easy to buy RIGHT NOW. But what about 5, 10 or 15 years from now?

What if my life situation changes in some way and I can't roid anymore? What if laws severely change? You know what I mean?

i guess test is relatively cheap that I COULD buy 1-2 years of a cruise dose just in case though. I'm just concerned with the whole thing long-term.

you've never actually done steroids have you

it seems like you're citing shit you've heard others say, trying to probe a response for approval

1 cycle on roids is not worth it, and you are still playing a risky game with medical issues down the line, if you're unlucky it will be devastating

perfect your diet, never miss a set/rep/workout, and find more substance in your life besides the gym

3x a week, 6 hours a week, eat healthy, live life... don't fuck around with steroids.

Serious question: Why roid if you don't intend to compete?

Facts:
> Literally no one cares for your body unless you are skelly or fat
> Getting buff actually makes people think you are a meathead. You have to compensate with charisma. But that's no problem because you're a charismatic guy, aren't you user?
> Getting buff, and being all about that gym life will get you a gym whore.
> Almost any other hobby will make you way more interesting to others. Like playing an instrument, drawing, playing actual sports, etc.
> Regarding overall looks, more defined abs or a little bigger chest will have a neglectable impact. Most important are: face, height, frame (not meme'ing here), clothing style, hygene, confident posture, etc.
> Girls consider Efron mode already as too much. They only find him hot cause of 9/10 face (well until they find out he is like 5'8...) And i know this because a friend of mine looks like efron, and multiple girls (attractive, fit girls) have told me that they find it too much.

Yeah, steroids are awesome and the natty guy here is just spouting shit. It just really depends if you want to do them, and if you do, be really sure and research a ton. Personally I'm happy lifting as a natty, but many people aren't or maybe want to go further, and that's up to them. It's not cheating or bad for you if done properly.

Could someone direct me to a beginner roid wiki, pastebin, sticky, whatever please?

The only non-natty people i know IRL are a bunch of niggers at the gym who don't even seem to understand english.

>you've never actually done steroids have you
>it seems like you're citing shit you've heard others say, trying to probe a response for approval

No I haven't.

But I have been browsing people's steroid progress pictures and logs. They seem to put on a lot of strength and mass with relatively little doses. Have you used them?

>you are still playing a risky game with medical issues down the line, if you're unlucky it will be devastating

What are the legitimate risks of a single cycle of testosterone?

This

>> Literally no one cares for your body unless you are skelly or fat

I care about it. i've gotten bullied growing up for how I look. Also I have low testosterone naturally and I constantly feel like shit.

>> Getting buff actually makes people think you are a meathead. You have to compensate with charisma. But that's no problem because you're a charismatic guy, aren't you user?

I don't care if people think i'm a meathead
>> Getting buff, and being all about that gym life will get you a gym whore.

Doesn't sound half bad
>> Almost any other hobby will make you way more interesting to others. Like playing an instrument, drawing, playing actual sports, etc.

What if I do have other hobbies? What if I told you that I have a wide range of hobbies I regularly practice and enjoy. And I just want a better physique and to feel better?
>> Regarding overall looks, more defined abs or a little bigger chest will have a neglectable impact. Most important are: face, height, frame (not meme'ing here), clothing style, hygene, confident posture, etc.

What if those are already perfected
>> Girls consider Efron mode already as too much. They only find him hot cause of 9/10 face (well until they find out he is like 5'8...) And i know this because a friend of mine looks like efron, and multiple girls (attractive, fit girls) have told me that they find it too much.

What if girls don't know what they want and they constantly contradict themselves?

And that you can't lump half the world population into "liking" or "disliking" something

>What are the legitimate risks of a single cycle of testosterone?
the long term effects of one cycle are typically not grave... but the short term effects can be fairly serious if you're unlucky and have no medical supervision.. and usually a person does NOT do one cycle and then call it quits

it becomes something they can do just one more time (as they see their results dwindling) -- or maybe two- three cycles per year becomes "ok" and so on

even if you mange to keep it to one cycle, you're not going to see anything close to the progress these 'steroid pictures & logs' are showing, not at all.

don't take steroids

B-bump

>the long term effects of one cycle are typically not grave... but the short term effects can be fairly serious if you're unlucky and have no medical supervision.. and usually a person does NOT do one cycle and then call it quits

What if I get regular bloodwork done?

I just want to try a single cycle to see how it makes me feel and then I will blast and cruise for ever

this. it really just boils down to wether you are content with being a natty of not. if yes, then ok, if not, research and roid.

sure if you get a medical service involved it will be much safer

unless you're planning on making a living with your body, don't take steroids, don't complicate the process

eat clean, lift on schedule, live a long & fruitful life

>unless you're planning on making a living with your body, don't take steroids, don't complicate the process

Why not? It seems like it would make the process only simpler.

>mfw the health consequences roiders will face when they get older

not healthy, short-term plan

play for the long-term

>Natty cope

I love being natty. I get complements all the time on my body and from every girl I've been with

You don't need roids to look good.

this is b8

why not just try a cycle first before you think about the longterm full on blast and cruise?

waiting on some bitcoins to transfer right now.

>tfw im finally going to make it

>> Almost any other hobby will make you way more interesting to others. Like playing an instrument, drawing, playing actual sports, etc.
the fuck does this have to do with anything?

you're still lifting on or off roids. that 5 minutes of pinning your ass twice a week doesn't change anything.

the idea that you will become arnold overnight because you're pinning is also pretty fucking dumb

we gonna make it bro

Roids permanently give you more nuclei in your muscle fibers. Nattys can never increase nuclei, only increase the cell size

>Roids permanently give you more nuclei in your muscle fibers

Sounds great

Steroids are a simple risk–benefit analysis analysis for most people.

Everyone's desires and goals are different, and anyone who denies the gains you make on roids isn't impressive is fooling themselves.

But there's plenty of risk with it as well, up to and including the risk of losing your life.

Is it worth it? depends entirely on the person

Do research, read the horror stories, read the success stories, and come to your own conclusion.

lol keep doing what you're doing

don't worry about what Eddie Hall is doing

mn.uio.no/ibv/english/research/news-and-events/news/2013/kortvarig-dopingbruk-kan-ha-permanente-effekter.html

It seems steroids may permanently increase total nuclei in muscle fibres, thus increase the maximum size potential for the muscle. Steroids are better for muscle memory.

sounds like you know what you're doing man, what are you waiting for? pin dat ass