I dont understand the Shia vs Sunni conflict. Protestant vs Catholic I can understand...

In this period of Islamic history you also had a bunch of ultraorthodox sperglords called the Khajirites who believed the Caliph wasn't holy, believed imams coul be anyone chosen by their community instead of Arabs who studied the Quran, and they pretty much accused anyone who didn't literally keep themselves to the Quran as sinners.

These fuckers were a pretty small movement within Islam but they fucked up big time when they decided to assassinate several important officials including Ali, who was Caliph at the time of the assassinations. Ali was at that time talking with his main rivals to end the civil war that was ravaging Islam after the initial Rashidun conquests but after his assassination Islam pretty much sperged into the three different branches of Sunni, Shia and Khawarij/Kharijite Islam which has remained untill modern day. The Kharijites are pretty much extinct safe for one subgroup/sect, Ibadism, which itself is for the most part only prevalent in Oman, an oasis in Algeria and probably a few more isolated settlements scattered accross the Islamic world.

The divide does actually effect modern politics an the political philosophy of modern Muslims. For example, Twelver Shi’ism states that the last of the twelve imams has not died and is instead in hiding and that any state before his reveal is illegitimate. The ideal state to these Shia is one that is waiting for this reveal.
Fundamentally it’s a question of who can rule us legitimately and for the Shia it’s very limited. Also Shias uphold the 11 Imams (or 6/7 depending on the branch of Shiism) are spiritual successors to the Prophet (not necessarily as equals but comparisons have been made, much to the disbelief of other Shia and most Sunni). Also prayers are different and the Hadith are disputed.
I’d say these are pretty big differences, not worth killing over though.

Can Ibadi Islam today even been considered that similar to Kharijites?

I find it incredibly hard to respect islam in any shape or form
Am I wrong?

Well its followed by a billion people so there must be something respectable about it.

Their families were converted to it ages ago probably by the sword, they are born into it, they are scared of leaving because of fear of being real and ending up in Jahannam.
My other guess is they just don't like fags because they are pretty annoying so they just roll with it.

>the Israeli–Palestinian conflict has nothing to do with religion

I guarantee only the Arabs native to the area would of cared if they were uprooted to make way for a transplant nation of Nigerian Muslims that would hold Jerusalem. The rest of the Middle East wouldn't give to shits.

But since the people who transplanted them are Jews, they care. They all care.

Why would anyone need to respect a faith-system?

That's retarded nonsense. There's no connection between 'alot of people support/believe x' and 'x is respectable'.
logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/40/Appeal-to-Popularity

Well im not gonna defend Islam but I respect that one of their tenants is money for the poor.

I can respect the contributions they made to math and science 700 years ago. But no I do not respect Islam today, nor anu other abrahamic religion. As far as I can tell they are all ignorant hypocrites incapable of recognizing the fact that their angry desert religion isnt the only thing in the world people can believe. The only organized religion I see as having any merit is hinduism

>t. Spiritualist

That's completly untrue you just need to know the history of the region to know that

>The doctrinal differences (such as if the eucharist gets substanciated or not) are minimal between catholics and protestants too

The differences between Catholics and various flavours of Protestant come in all shapes and sizes because heresy just breeds more heresy.

The succession was only the original trigger. by now they have diverged pretty far in religious practice and constructed their identities against each other.

interesting reading on this topic:
slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/04/the-ideology-is-not-the-movement/

Trans what-now?!

>stole their lands

How can Jews steal Judea.

Same way they did in the Bible, by violence.

perhaps, or it could be the fact that it's a militaristic doctrine that rewards violence for the sake of violence
how many places adopted islam willingly? christianity took root through the work of missionaries, historically islamic nations adopted it because it was foisted upon them

most of those 'islamic scholars' were zoroastrian, deistic or agnostic persians living within various caliphates in mena and iberia
people spout a few names beginning with 'al-' and claim them as islamic saviours
islam has always had a retarding effect on scientific advance because it claims to be the final goal of humanity, and its texts to be the final revealed truth of god
scientific enquiry can only result in this truth being questioned

>christianity took root through the work of missionaries, historically islamic nations adopted it because it was foisted upon them
as i understand it in both cases missonaries played a major part.

>christianity took root through the work of missionaries, historically islamic nations adopted it because it was foisted upon them
Do you know nothing about the spread of Christianity in medieval Europe, or the Americas?

Sh*a dogs killed the rightful caliph ʿUmar ibn al-Chattāb because MUH ALI

They started this Shia Sunni divide, the Wahabis and Iranians today however take it to the extreme

me personally I'd like to see the death of every sh*a heretic

>Implying we can discuss Muslims being civil

>Sh*a dogs killed the rightful caliph ʿUmar ibn al-Chattāb because MUH ALI
That happened hundreds of years ago nothing you can do now. Just get over it
>I'd like to see the death of every sh*a heretic
This kind of mentality is why the Middle East will always be a shithole

Christianity was mostly spread by the sword dude. Not as quickly and optically as Islam but all the same. That being said Egypt was like 60% coptic only like 400 years ago. Even then the Muslim conversions were more a matter of societal priveleges and preferences to muslim than actual life or death conversions, much like Christianity.
The idea that Islam spread violently and Christianity peacefully is honestly pretty hilarious. Only by viewing the modern state of each religion could you come to such a ridiculous conclusion.

>semantics over magic crackers and grape juice

What fucking difference does it make?

imagine if Jesus got laid and had kids. now jesus is kill. the apostles and the son of son of god have a disagreement over who gets to be in charge of the Christians. Jesus Jr wins, sort of. The Apostles just take their followers and go off on their own.

most of those 'islamic scholars' were zoroastrian, deistic or agnostic persians living within various caliphates in mena and iberia
people spout a few names beginning with 'al-' and claim them as islamic saviours
islam has always had a retarding effect on scientific advance because it claims to be the final goal of humanity, and its texts to be the final revealed truth of god
scientific enquiry can only result in this truth being questioned

Is it true? Someone else on Veeky Forums said it too

Do I get a pass on hating fags if I convert to islam?

Alevi Islam best islam

Why are the Shiites generally better (relatively speaking) than the Sunnis? Sunnis seem to chimp out at the drop of a hat compared to Shiites.

They disagree over two main issues:

1. Who was the leader of the Muslim Religion after the passing of Mohammud?

2. Does mysticism have a place in Islam.

The two issues are entwined.

The reason why it matters is because it's about what rules people are supposed to follow, dictated by the Founders of Islam.

It's that simple.
Nothing difficult about it.

Sunnis wanted the succession to be democratic
Shiites wanted it to be blood transmitted
The sunni-shiites conflict is mostly a meme currently, the conflict between saudis and iran is about geopolitical control and not religion, go down to relatively stable countries like turkey or morocco and you'll find no one cares about it

>Sunnis wanted the succession to be democratic
Citation needed.

>conflict between saudis and iran is about geopolitical control
Citation needed.

Literally the most basic thing to the conflict, google it you lazy shit
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia-Sunni_relations#Successors_of_Muhammad
>conflict between saudis and iran is about geopolitical control
You think Saudi arabia would be allied with degenerate Americans and fucking Israel just to get at other muslims if it gave two shits about Islamic teachings? the time of religious conflicts has long gone past brainlet

-They insults Muhammad's friends (abu bakr,uthman and umar).These guys literally helped Muhammad to spread Islam and shiites treats them like shit.

-It's true that Muhammad wanted Ali to become the succesor,but he had to step down and let abu bakar becomes the first caliph to avoid confrontation and to respect abu bakr who had more experience in governing than Ali.

and arabs didn't use violence to obtain palestine?

The Conflict between Ali and Abu-Baker was very small. Most Muslims accepted Abu-Baker. There was only a small minority that wanted Ali to take power. The biggest source of hatred of these two groups is mostly because Aisha(mohammads Wife) raised a army and fought Ali. Also, the Salafist sect support Muawya, Muawya was the founder of the Omayid Caliphate, who also rebelled against Mohammad. Saudi Arabia is a Salafist nation. After Hussain , the son of Ali, was defeated by Yazid , the son of Muawya, the Shias went underground, and the fighting basically stopped. In the 16th century a Azeri Turkish warlord, by the name of Ismail, converted to shia Islam, and conqured the heart lands of the persian empire; Which is modern day Iran and Afghanistan. He forcefully converted all of those land to shia Islam. He did to counter the Sunni Othomans, and since he was Turkish, he needed a strong counter Ottoman Identity. This is also why Iran from Ismail Shah onward fought the Ottomans 12 times. Thus re-starting the Shia-Sunni conflict.

It says nothing about democracy and geopolitical control.
So again.
Citation Needed.

He is right. I used to be a practicing Shia Muslim. Shias believe in the 12 Imams who are all descendants of Ali and Mohammad's daughter Fatima. The average Sunni believe in the 4 caliphs who were all elected by the elders of all the Bedouin Arab tribes.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twelve_Imams
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Caliphs
youtube.com/watch?v=7mxVGy4TEGk&t=19s

>tfw sufi

And what role do the caliphs have in Islam? I understand that the religion has no priesthood and that the authoritative jurisprudence is developed by common consensus and rational argument. The caliphs have an large public role and they can influence the consensus, but so do the jurists

The Caliph was a religious dictator. His final word was law. I don't think to compare him to the pope is a good indicator of his actual role, but a religious emperor is a good description.

>your land

It was british mate mudslims never owned anything it was clearly european clay after the 1st ww

What is funny is that, after the 4 rashudin caliphs, the position of the caliph become heredity. And the Salafists accept that. Most serious scholars only accept the 4 rashudin as actual real caliphs.

The original conflict is irrelevant now, only retards think that's what they fighting about today.

>But these people really still beefing over who should have seceded Muhammed hundreds of years ago?
Shia eventually developed some of its own religious practices separate from Sunni Islam. Additionally Shia Islam can be considered a nationalistic religion, it was relatively common in Persia for centuries before the Safavids, but the Safavids used Shia Islam to attempt to unite their empire around a singular religion to differentiate their lands from the lands of the Sunni peoples surrounding them.

Put simply. Modern Shiites follow some slightly different practices and Shia is largely a Persian religion, while Sunni Islam is practiced across the world from Africa to Khazakstan, from Indonesia to the Balkans.

I dont agree with that. Because the people who brought Shia Islam were Azeri Turks, and the most religious group in Iran is Azeri Turks.

Salafists are probably the closest thing we have to Kharijites today, what with them both sharing a zeal for takfir.

>The idea that Islam spread violently and Christianity peacefully is honestly pretty hilarious
that's not what I said
when I said 'took root', I meant it gained a small but significant following in europe, asia and africa through the work of missionaries and their converts
I'm well aware that christianity is only present in places like melanesia, polynesia, much of sub-saharan africa, etc as a by-product of colonialism, however it was never a primary objective of imperial governments, armies, companies, etc
rather, missionaries who took advantage of western rule in these regions spread their message peacefully

of course the salient point to take from this is that a muslim who forces his religion on another person at swordpoint is acting in a mohammedan manner, whereas a christian who does the same is not at all acting in a christ-like manner

those 'societal privileges' you mention no doubt include not being forced to enter a protection racket, where you have to pay for the privilege of arming your enemy in case they ever fancy sacking and burning your place of worship

Azeris in Iran don't even identify as ethnic Turks you dumb dumb nor did Turkic Shia followers ever spread Shia doctrine or its constituent indentations into Iranian lands because those were already there. Even "Sunni" Iranians were always sympathetic to Ali.

>But these people really still beefing over who should have seceded Muhammed hundreds of years ago?
No. You see certain countries fighting for different reasons and you just assume its sunni/shia, because that's what western government and media has been selling since they had any interest in the middle east in order to keep the region weak and divided into many different pieces in the form of countries.
In the case of the gulf, they propped up 1 family in each country, brought them into power and made them a "royal family", who will steal and control all of that countries resources, in exchange for doing the wests bidding
>Why is this anyway relevant to Islam?
It's not. Sects, or Denominations in Islam aren't based on religious beliefs, values, or differences, they're based on politics. Because of Arab culture in general, they just love fighting over absolutely anything. So if there is nothing to fight about, eventually they will find something to fight about, no matter how insignificant or ridiculous it is. Example: Today 2 Arabs who used to be close but now hate each other and haven't talked to each other in decades, and you ask one of them why, you will likely get an extremely stupid, petty, and insignificant answer such as he didn't return my salam, he forgot X, or something.
>Honestly just seems like a way for Persians to distinguish themselves from Arabs because they hate them.
This is only true for non muslims, especially diaspora, because of the 1979 Islamic Revolution.
Due to the politics of shia/sunni, Shia Islam is actually much more Arab supremacist than Sunni Islam is, which is because of its theme which is more around the prophet, his family, and his descendants. While Sunni Islam's theme is more around the prophet and his companions (many of which weren't Arab), and is much more universal and easier for a non Arab to follow and to be a part of.

(1/2)
>Twelver Shi’ism states that the last of the twelve imams has not died and is instead in hiding
You forgot to mention how that the 12th imam is who they believe to be the Mahdi, and the Mahdi is a figure that all muslim believe will one day come.
Every detail about the Mahdi is identical to all Muslims, its just a matter of his identity.
>and that any state before his reveal is illegitimate
False. In the case of Iran, the goal of the islamic controlled government is to build a new caliphate, start expanding and waging a holy war against the west, which is what will bring the Mahdi out of hiding, who will then assume control of this caliphate, and lead the muslims to the day of judgment.
>The ideal state to these Shia is one that is waiting for this reveal
This kind of contradicts what you just said.
>it’s a question of who can rule us legitimately and for the Shia it’s very limited
Not at all. The Safavid Dynasty used the same tactic the Islamic Republic of Iran is using, in that whoever is leading the caliphate, is the Mahdi's current representative, and is doing it in order to rebuild the caliphate and they will hand leadership over to the Mahdi when he reemerges.
>Shias uphold the 11 Imams (or 6/7 depending on the branch of Shiism) are spiritual successors to the Prophet
Not spiritual successors, but they are believed to be the most knowledgable on the prophet's teachings and life better than anyone else in their time. So they were basically just carrying the torch of his legacy and passing down his teachings and life.
Also this is a matter of politics, not religion.
>but comparisons have been made
Nice meme. The top Jafari scholars have actually said thats haram and anyone who would compare another human being to the prophet isn't a muslim.

(2/2)
>Also prayers are different
This is false. They're exactly the same.
If you're talking about the fact that most shia pray with their arms down instead of folded, this is a matter of what school of thought you are following. Sunni's from the Maliki school of thought also pray with their hands down.
>Hadith are disputed
Also false. Hadiths are put in a different order of importance based on who narrated them, but they all say the same things and none of them contradict each other.
Also this is an issue of school of thought as they all have their own order of importance for hadith. It doesn't have anything to do with shia or sunni.

Why would you assuma Sunni's are any more united than sunni vs shiite

Why can I always tell it's you? You're an annoying Khomeinist faggot that used to post on /int/ spreading your insane and stupid extremist crap, yelling kaffir at everyone. When will you stop coming on here?

I can tell it is you because you always use the same rhetorical points. You're like a broken machine that needs to be put down.

>most of those 'islamic scholars' were zoroastrian, deistic or agnostic persians living within various caliphates in mena and iberia
Clueless we wuzzing islamophobic Iranian diaspora shill who doesn't actually know anything about Islam or Islamic history - the post
Oh and btw, most of "le persians from islamic golden age" weren't even from modern day Iran.
I didn't see his post as it got deleted, but 99.99% chance its a larper
This
And this. The Saudi monarchy is run by a random family with no religious authority whatsoever who are owned by the west, so in reality the current conflict is Iran representing Islam as a whole and the Saudi royal family representing the west and western interests.
>They insults Muhammad's friends (abu bakr,uthman and umar).These guys literally helped Muhammad to spread Islam and shiites treats them like shit.
Weird then how the top Shia scholars have all said that this is haram, and that anyone who does this isn't a muslim, but an enemy of islam and agent of the west.

Always the same fucking rhetorical points that have been debunked each and every goddamn times. STFU you retard. If you want to be an Arab so badly, then stop calling yourself Iranian. KYS for you virgins already, Khomeinist scum. You have infested Veeky Forums and other social media because you are scum of the Earth.

>Shia eventually developed some of its own religious practices separate from Sunni Islam
False
>Additionally Shia Islam can be considered a nationalistic religion
Top lel. How is it nationalistic? As for religion, all of Islam is 1 religion. Shia/Sunni/Ibadi aren't based on religion differences. They're based on political differences over leadership
>it was relatively common in Persia for centuries before the Safavids
Having a small pocket near Imam Reza's shrine isn't being "relatively common"
>the Safavids used Shia Islam to attempt to unite their empire around a singular religion to differentiate their lands from the lands of the Sunni peoples surrounding them
They only did it because the Ottoman's were expanding eastward and to repel their influence amongst the people
>Put simply. Modern Shiites follow some slightly different practices and Shia is largely a Persian religion
Nice meme. Shia Islam is completely Arab supremacist. Look at Shia majority Iran and Sunni majority Afghanistan and Tajikstan, you will see how much less Arabic influence exists in Afghanistan and Tajikstan, & how Iran is an Arab country in everything but name
>Azeris in Iran don't even identify as ethnic Turks
Most people don't think or care about ethnicity at all as in the muslim world its nothing but a meme, but for the few that do they do identify as ethnic Turks
>nor did Turkic Shia followers ever spread Shia doctrine or its constituent indentations into Iranian lands because those were already there
Top lel. They forced conversions onto the population they ruled and those who didn't convert or flee to neighboring areas were genocided. The Safavids then imported Arab Shia to demographically replace them, teach the Jafari school of thought, build the new clergy, and to solidify the new shia state
>Even "Sunni" Iranians were always sympathetic to Ali
All Sunni's are. Sunni/Shia don't have any differences on how they view Ali except on whether he was 1st successor or 4th

STFU you retard. You've been debunked plenty of times already.

I'm serious, one day I will find you, and bring back scaphism just for you. I am going to rip you limb from limb. You stupid piece of shit. If you want to be Arab so badly and fight for your Ummah, then GTFO /pol/ and kill yourself, so that way you can go up to your goddamn virgins in heaven already. Your mind is just pure filth.

Each time your points have been rebuked, but you keep bringing them over and over again. You are just here to push a narrative, and it makes me want to a knife up your fucking throat. Shut the fuck up, Arab parast. You stupid goddamn piece of shit. I sweat, if I ever saw you in real life, I could not restrain the desire to choke you. I'd put it all on the line to disembowel you and send you straight to fucking hell. Go blow up for your fucking ummah, you edgelord muzzie piece of shit.

Iranians are not fucking Arabs, you goddamn delusional piece of shit.

First of all how do you think indonesia and western africa became muslim?
Also in islam there is no conpulsion you have to convert of your own.
>inb4 mu jizya

Still better than convert or die.

Not the guy you responded to but stop being so butthurt you add nothing to the thread.

He's been debunked at least 5-10 times. I've seen it each time, but he never modifies his views. He's just a shill trying to push his own narrative, and it's tiring to be able to tell it's him each time.

Are you the same delusional diaspora autist who doesn't even know Farsi from that middle east thread?
If Iranians arent muslim/arab & you hate Islam and muslims so much, why do you come into Islam and mena related threads? Are you trying to shill? Are you just that butthurt about reality so you try and lie about it? You clearly are mentally unwell
>If you want to be an Arab so badly, then stop calling yourself Iranian
Top lel, the non muslim delusional we wuzzing diaspora, who has lived in the USA his entire life and doesn't even know Farsi is lecturing someone else on what is Iranian and what isnt
You're weird though even for we wuzzing diaspora. Most of them call themselves "Persians" because they at least somewhat assimilate into their western nationalities. Why do you say "Iranian" when it is directly tied with Islam and being muslim? And when you yourself are a non muslim American?
Don't worry though, once the Islamic Republic's caliphate expands the Iranian nationality will no longer exist
But if you're so nationalistic and Iranian then why don't you practice islam and/or come live here in Iran? Are you scared of getting executed? Maybe you don't even have citizenship?
Perhaps you should be more grateful to the USA that took your family in when they were fleeing the Islamic Revolution instead of being some self hating loser with identity issues
>You've been debunked plenty of times already.
>Each time your points have been rebuked, but you keep bringing them over and over again
Me posting nothing but facts, and you responding with nothing but logical fallacies isn't debunking or rebuking me lmao
>then GTFO /pol/
This isn't /pol/, but way to admit that you're a /pol/tard yourself
>You are just here to push a narrative
Not really, but you sure seem to be trying to
>you edgelord muzzie piece of shit
What an anti Iranian thing to say :^)
Pic related
WE WUZ PERSIANS N SHIEEEET

Islam was spread mostly by social pressure, missionaries, and trade.

The spread by the sword shit is ahistorical as fuck.

The thing about Jizya, is that it was actually a much cheaper tax than what people were paying under their previous non muslim rulers.
You can see why so many people converted to Islam, and why its the worlds fastest growing religion.
And for those who didn't want to convert, they didn't.
Which is why when you look at Europe, no pre Christian European religions still exist today, because the Christians literally killed everyone who didn't convert to Christianity.
While in the Muslim world you still have religious minorities even today.

People have already shown you yourself can't even write in Farsi well.
>If Iranians arent muslim/arab & you hate Islam and muslims so much, why do you come into Islam and mena related threads?
One can still be Muslim while retaining aspects of his or her folklore, unique identity, and more. When Europeans became Christian, did they completely abandon their previous culture? No. Look, here, Iran is recently making a new animated adaptation of the Shahnameh:
youtube.com/watch?v=vpyChtTj8Lg
>Are you trying to shill? Are you just that butthurt about reality so you try and lie about it?
It's you who is the shill that constantly argues Iranians = Arabs and that Iran has retained absolutely nothing to Pre-Islamic times. This is patently false. Iran became Islamic, true, but elements of Zoroastrianism persisted in Iran's national identity, its customs, and literature. To claim otherwise is nonsense.
>doesn't even know Farsi
And you are some kind of minority from Iran who didn't even know of Hafiz (who all of my relatives both in and other Iran know of), Saadi Shirazi, Attar, Rumi, and more. You have absolutely no understanding of Iran's literary tradition beyond reading Khomeini like it's a gospel. I respect aspects of both Iran's pre- and post-Islamic traditions.
>Why do you say "Iranian" when it is directly tied with Islam and being muslim?
The word "Iranian" was coined during Sassanian empire. If Iranians were Arabs, then why do they continue to use this word to define themselves, which is was created by Sassanids? You are merely trying to propagate a stupid worldview that tries to destroy our identity.
>And when you yourself are a non muslim American?
I respect some aspects of Sufism, such as from Attar's Conference of the Birds & Saadi Shirazi's Bustan.
>But if you're so nationalistic and Iranian then why don't you practice islam and/or come live here in Iran?
It's all about economics and money.

Your pic is from IRI, which lies for agendas.

Some real lack of historical knowledge being exhibited here. Just ignore all of Africa, South America, and northern Europe why don't you.

>WE WUZ PERSIANS N SHIEEEET
It was called Iran (Īrān-shahr or Ērān-shahr) since Sassanian Empire. Persian is the Greco-Roman word for one province of Iran (Fars / Pars).

(1/2)
>People have already shown you yourself can't even write in Farsi well.
I wrote in the last thread for you to respond, but wrote it in a way that when passed through google translate wouldn't give you a translation. Otherwise I could've just google translated myself and that would prove nothing.
Neither you nor any of your other diaspora friends responded to it, because you don't even know Farsi.
>One can still be Muslim while retaining aspects of his or her folklore, unique identity, and more
Again as a non muslim who knows absolutely nothing about Islam, you're in no position to be saying what a muslim can or can't do.
>Iran is recently making a new animated adaptation of the Shahnameh
>Let me cherrypick this 1 incident and try and pass it off as a norm or reoccurring trend
You know there are about 400,000 non muslims in Iran yes?
>It's you who is the shill that constantly argues Iranians = Arabs and that Iran has retained absolutely nothing to Pre-Islamic times. This is patently false. Iran became Islamic, true, but elements of Zoroastrianism persisted in Iran's national identity, its customs, and literature. To claim otherwise is nonsense.
The retarded non muslim we wuzzing diaspora with identity issues who has lived in the USA his entire life is going to tell me about Iran and its post Islamic history. Top lel
Also the Iranian nationality hasn't even existed for 100 years yet.
>And you are some kind of minority from Iran
1) I'm not
2) You're committing a logical fallacy because you have no argument
>who didn't even know of Hafiz (who all of my relatives both in and other Iran know of), Saadi Shirazi, Attar, Rumi, and more
Seems like you're confusing me with someone else? And I only know 1 of these names.
1) Rumi is a muslim figure known by all muslims for his contributions to Islam
2) He was Sunni (so much for shia being stronk PERSIAN religion)
3) Rumi today would be considered Afghan, not Iranian

(2/2)
>The word "Iranian" was coined during Sassanian empire. If Iranians were Arabs, then why do they continue to use this word to define themselves, which is was created by Sassanids?
1) doubts.jpg
2) Even if true, the average Iranian isnt an autistic we wuzzer like you or Reza KHAN who would even know or care to know. As far as the name is concerned, its meaning today and the context its known in is to show that there is no connection to "muh Persia" or pre islamic persians at all.
Otherwise Khomeini would have changed the name to something more suitable when him and the people founded and built modern day Iran.
Persian is just the name of a language, and Iranian Persian today is basically a dialect of Arabic.
>You are merely trying to propagate a stupid worldview that tries to destroy our identity.
Then why do you think this worldview exists? Because the meaning and context its used in is to disassociate with ancient Persians, not to we wuz as them.
Also
>our identity
>our
Lmao
>Your pic is from IRI, which lies for agendas.
>R-reality contradicts my agenda, shilling, and delusional fantasies
>I-its a lie!
Ok here is pew.
>83% support sharia law and want it even stricter
The fact that it was conducted by a western anti islamic organization makes the actual number in reality much higher than 83%

>Again as a non muslim who knows absolutely nothing about Islam
My dad is not a non-Muslim. Most of my family both in and out of Iran do not define themselves as Arabs, assert their unique Persian identity, enjoy the Shahnameh, and so forth while simultaneously enjoying Islamic poetry like Saadi and Hafiz and identifying as Shiite.
>Neither you nor any of your other diaspora friends responded to it, because you don't even know Farsi.
The other people showed you can't write Farsi very well. I, however, didn't use Google Translate. You're mistaking me for someone else. I never took time to learn to write in Farsi, even though my dad pushed me a lot.
>You know there are about 400,000 non muslims in Iran yes?
I'm not going to trust any stats. I think Iran is more divided by people who want a more liberal Islam, people who want to revive Iranian pre-Islamic culture, people who dislike all religion in general (irreligiosity), and much more. Stats, in this context, are being utilized to push forward a particular agenda.
>Also the Iranian nationality hasn't even existed for 100 years yet.
People were calling themselves Iranian since Sassanian Empire. Post-Islamic poets like Saadi also make frequent references to Shahanameh and pre-Islamic imagery. It's not like Iranians forgot their history, since they still practice their Zoroastrian holidays.
>Seems like you're confusing me with someone else?
I'm not.
>And I only know 1 of these names.
Hafiz is more popular in Iran. All of my relatives on my dad's side own a copy of Hafez's Divān both in and out of Iran. Last time we debated, you kept saying I was lying, so we reached a wall/impasse.

>Otherwise Khomeini would have
Stop bringing up Khomeini. Why are you obsessed with this idiot? Khomeinism isn't reflective of Islam as a whole. Reading Omar Khayyam and Ibn Sina is far better than Khomeini's trash! You know what I think? I think after Khomeini got power, he worked to destroy everything good about our heritage, so many Iranians born after Khomeini don't even know their own culture or history.
>Iranian Persian today is basically a dialect of Arabic.
Bullshit, and you were proven false. Grammatically, Persian does not resemble Arabic. Only more Arabic loanwords were used after the Revolution.
>The fact that it was conducted by a western anti islamic organization makes the actual number in reality much higher than 83%
Many Western organizations also want to convey Iran as backwards, so they would probably accept what the IRI gives them. Listen, you are a dumb Khomeinist. In fact, I think Khomeinism goes against what real Iranian Sufi Islam has been about. You are brainwashed and immensely stubborn. There is no point in continuing this since you never even change your mind a little bit. You have an issue with confirmation bias, keep using the same stats over and over again, and more.

>As far as the name is concerned, its meaning today and the context its known in is to show that there is no connection to "muh Persia" or pre islamic persians at all.
Sassanids coined the word "Iran" as a cognate for Aryan, which didn't mean what Nazis appropriated it as.

(1/3)
>My dad is not a non-Muslim
Sureee lmao. Did you know I'm Donald Trump?
>Most of my family both in and out of Iran do not define themselves as Arabs, assert their unique Persian identity, enjoy the Shahnameh, and so forth while simultaneously enjoying Islamic poetry like Saadi and Hafiz and identifying as Shiite
Wow, so youre telling me your family represents and speaks for 80 million people?
As much as I doubt you even have any family in Iran, I'll play along. Your family sounds like a walking contradiction who don't know anything about Islam and if this were to be known by muslims, they would be laughed at and beheaded for apostasy.
Also you don't know anything about sunni or shiite but nice try at trying to shill this.
>The other people showed you can't write Farsi very well
What other people? The ones that don't exist and that you made up?
But again you use a logical fallacy because you can't attack what I say because you know its true.
>I never took time to learn to write in Farsi, even though my dad pushed me a lot.
I doubt you can even speak it.
>I'm not going to trust any stats
>I think Iran is more divided by people who want a more liberal Islam, people who want to revive Iranian pre-Islamic culture, people who dislike all religion in general (irreligiosity), and much more
> Stats, in this context, are being utilized to push forward a particular agenda.
I'm dying of laughter tbqhwy
>People were calling themselves Iranian since Safavid Empire
Nope. Safavids used Persian in order to help expand their empire into the rest of what was once Persia. Back then there was no nation called Iran, so in the sense you're thinking people would call themselves as whatever province they were from.
>It's not like Iranians forgot their history, since they still practice their Zoroastrian holidays.
My sides are dying

(2/3)
>Hafiz is more popular in Iran
Nope
>All of my relatives on my dad's side own a copy of Hafez's Divān both in and out of Iran
Wow so just because your relatives on your dads side, which is what less than 50 people are non muslim Pahlavi era cringelords, this automatically means 80 million people do it?
>Last time we debated, you kept saying I was lying, so we reached a wall/impasse
I hope you're really not this paranoid to think everyone who calls you out on your shilling is the same person
>Stop bringing up Khomeini. Why are you obsessed with this idiot?
Stating a simple fact is now being obsessed?
And wow what an anti Iranian thing to say. If you were posting that here you would've just bought yourself a beheading
>Khomeinism isn't reflective of Islam as a whole
It's reflective of Shia Islam in Iran as a whole.
>I think after Khomeini got power, he worked to destroy everything good about our heritage
The only thing he did along with the rest of the muslims was get rid of pro western secularist cringelord self hating we wuzzers. But society as a whole certainly reverted to how it was before Pahlavi we wuzzing.
>so many Iranians born after Khomeini don't even know their own culture or history
Not everyone is an autist who cares about we wuzzing as a bunch of idiots from 1400+ years ago. Must be hard for you to imagine I know.

(3/3)
>Grammatically, Persian does not resemble Arabic
>uses the same alphabet and script
>uses the same words
>B-but its totally different guys!

>Only more Arabic loanwords were used after the Revolution
So you're admitting that after the revolution the language returned to how it always was before Pahlavi we wuzzing? And that this language is "more arabic"? Glad thats settled.
>Many Western organizations also want to convey Iran as backwards
That's just your definition of backwards.
You we wuzzing diaspora who got rich from the Pahlavi's are westerners, and its known that you have organizations in the west to we wuz and you push the we wuzzing and sectarianism agenda hard.
>you are a dumb Khomeinist
Im not even religious kek. But seeing as Iran is over 99% muslim, that makes 99% of Iranian muslims "khomeinists".
>what real Iranian Sufi Islam has been about
Lolwut. You know Sufi's are Sunni muslims right?
>You have an issue with confirmation bias, keep using the same stats over and over again, and more.
>You of all people saying this
My sides are in orbit right now. Do you just take what you yourself are and accuse other people of it?
>Sassanids coined the word "Iran" as a cognate for Aryan, which didn't mean what Nazis appropriated it as.
See
>1) doubts.jpg
>2) Even if true, the average Iranian isnt an autistic we wuzzer like you or Reza KHAN who would even know or care to know. As far as the name is concerned, its meaning today and the context its known in is to show that there is no connection to "muh Persia" or pre islamic persians at all.
>Otherwise Khomeini would have changed the name to something more suitable when him and the people founded and built modern day Iran.
>Persian is just the name of a language, and Iranian Persian today is basically a dialect of Arabic.