Byzantine Thread

I'm a Persiaboo and I think he was a great military commander but anyone that would claim the crisis involving the Persians and Byzantines not playing a factor is stupid.

IMO, the Byzantines themselves did far more damage to the Empire than any of their enemy did.

Researching into what happened during the civil war after Manzikert proves this fully.

Heraclius wasn't exactly a super brilliant general. He didn't crush the Persians or anything, he simply inflicted enough of a wound on them to make their own tired and broken system start falling apart.

Although to answer your question, he did acquire some neuroses as a result of the Muslim conquests. He developed a fear of water, and so was stuck on the Asian side of of the Bosphorus for some time until his servants made a boat covered with land on which they could ferry him to Constantinople.

Also, most of his children were born sick and his two sons were killed in short succession when they ascended to the throne.

Being Heraclius is suffering.

He also lost a lot of major battles with Shahrabaraz in particular, who was the Persian general he feared the most.

Muslims are so delusional that many Islamic scholars claim that Heraclius recognized Islam as the true faith and Muhammad as its prophet, by comparing Islam to Christianity.

I just never got the whole "religion of peace" thing considering we know Muslims sent highly protective and incendiary messages to the Persians and Byzantines demanding submission and conversion from Christianity and Zoroastrianism to Islam.

>Was not Roman
>Was corrupted
>Was weak
>Lost every battle that they fought against Türks
>Broke
>Got rekt by Türks and Venetians (Black race)
>"n-no turkroaches pls"
you cannot escape from the Turk, byz*Ntine

I've never really seen a Muslim claim that seriously. Every time it's some right wing nutjob going "SEEEE!!!" over the latest terror attack.

books on byzantine empire
mega.nz/#F!QkQTAIgS!u1gg-6Rvg2yZZP9AId5XHg

>Roman
Greeks are not Roman

Eastern roman empire ends around the death of Maurice to the muslim invasions. Byzantine empire then begins. Prove me wrong

I have, plenty of them claim that.
By this logic the "Roman" Eastern Empire died after Justinian considering Latin was still at that point the official court and administrative language, Justinian was the last ethnic Roman to reign as Emperor, and the Romans still held reconquered Italy and Rome.

Why did the Byzantines deport Nestorians to Persia? I thought it was a Christian empire?

>I thought it was a Christian empire
Exactly
No heretics

Justin II was ethnic roman. I think TIberius II was as well, not sure. Maurice's court language was still Latin although he was greek (Anastasius for example) - arguably the last time the Romans were "Roman" was under Maurice and the Exarchate of Ravenna since after Maurice's rule the italians regarded the papacy as their legitimate authority.

Justin II grew up speaking Greek natively though iirc.

beautifully sorted, thanks for the files, user.

He only lost one battle against Shahrbaraz. Heraclius probably wasn't afraid of him considering he beat him twice in battle

BYZANTINE ROMA WAS A SENILE AND JUDAIZED HYPERBUREAUCRACY WHICH, BY ENDURING ITS OWN OBSOLESCENCE, HAD BECOME SYSTEMICALLY MALEVOLENT —ITS END CAME TOO LATE.

Greece was one of the most important parts of the Roman Empire you dingus

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>arabs, slavs and normanns
So two Nordic nations and one fellow swarthy medish...

hahaha medshit larpy-romans BTFO

The Byzantines beat all of those a fair share of times as well. There was one Byzantine Emperor who defeated the Slavs so well that he got the name "The Bulgar-Killer." But altogether, those three groups did a lot of damage. The Arabs of course took the Southern provinces of Egypt, the Levant, and (temporarily) Syria. The Slavs took much of the Balkans temporarily (and later in the empire, permanently), and the Normans took Southern Italy and Sacked Constantinople with the help of the Venetians during a Byzantine civil war.

Lol no it wasn't

Nope.
The real parts of Roman Emire in orded of importance would be like:
>Italy
>Egypt
>Cyreneica, Africa, Mauritania
>Syria, Judea
>Greece
>Anatolia
>Gaul, Noricum, Germania
>Iberia
>Balkans
>Britain

>Anatolia
>that low
wew, even pre 476, the economic hub of the roman empire had already moved from the italian peninsula to asia minor
by the time of constantine, rome's pop. was a fifth or a quarter the size of it was at its peak

>He only lost one battle against Shahrabaraz.
He lost multiple ones actually against him. Like at Antioch where Heraclius, his brother, and his top general had three armies of theirs literally blown out and Antioch sacked by him. Or the Battle in the Caucasus. And wimping out from forcing him from Egypt and occupied Roman Levant even a year after hostilities formally ended with the Persians.

Why are oyu so stupid?

*you

>Iberia and Anatolia that low

Iberia is where all the mines were and Anatolia was also a critical region for manpower and taxes.

Nobody gives a fuck about Mauritania and Cyrenaica, they are Britannia levels of irrelevance.

>Judea higher than Greece and Anatolia
This is peak shitposting.

np, the crusading books here has a section on the fourth crusade with books on it. "eastern perspectives" also has stuff on byzantium
mega.nz/#F!shJRxKYK!U0trlnbBuXsB922k83Hl7g

>He only lost one battle
No, he lost more then one. Also its spelled Shahrabaraz.

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Where do these numbers come from? I'm not doubting Greece, Italy, Egypt, and most of the Levant would've been the most productive and economically relevant parts of the Roman Empire but how are these numbers being defined?

>1453, Constantinople has been under siege for some time
>Venetians had promised to send reinforcements sometime earlier but nothing has come yet
>Byzantines manage to slip a scout ship past the Turkish blockade into the Mediterranean to search for incoming Venetian help
>they search for weeks
>not a Venetian ship in sight
>they actually go to Venice to see what the heck is taking so long
>ask around
>turns out the Venetians never actually had any intention of sending any help whatsoever
THE

ABSOLUTE

MADMEN

I was under the belief that Venice did send a fleet, but far too late and of far too little size to actually break the siege? Same outcome really, but at least they pretended.

Rome had close to a million people going into the fifth century. Its population didn't suddenly evaporate.

the fertility map from total war Attila.

reupload this on Google drive pls.

Theodora is my waifu.

A I R T I G H T

lost

All empires are weakened when a "great" general arrives.
Look at the Achmenaids, they were declining for decades and were pretty much rotten inside when Alexander arrived and kicked them in.

A lot of things helped Khalid but I think most people still agree that he's one of the best. His techniques were pretty amazing at the time period iirc.

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If only the Byzantine maximized their flamethrower power. Should of realized the potential of Greek fire more. Pic related

gREEk

>greek fire
>1426
What

No he's over rated as fuck. Alexander is great because he conquered more than just persia

What is that bottle next to him?

Wtf. Alexander's main claim to fame is his conquest of Persia. Apart from that and some Indian kingdoms there's really nothing else.

Khalid himself didn't conquer Persia but it was conquered using his own tactics, admittedly to a much lesser effective degree. He was born and raised in a desert and like Alexander he adapted to different environments on the spot.

If it wasn't for him paving the way by defeating the massive Roman garrison at Yarmouk then history would be very different.

Atarxerxes III was fixing the Persian Empire when his traitor cunt eunuch had him murdered with poison.

what do you mean?

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to what extent did varangians returning home to the North influence their cultures by contact with the Byzantine Empire?

More pics

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More like a meme by butthurt Italians who's empire abandoned them to the barbarian hordes and survived without them for another 1000 years.

We don't know that they didn't keep using it, it just doesn't get mentioned

It says olive oil.

SOOOOOOOOON

The story of Constantine the XI always puts a lump in my throat

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>Greeks who got conquered by Italians pretend to be Italians for 1000 years until they got their ass kicked by an Italian oldman

What did they mean by this?

>Implying Roman means Italian

To be Roman was to be part of a culture. Admittedly that culture in Constantinople died out by the 7th century and have already died centuries earlier in the west.

Sry, but people will alway thinking of Rome City and Colosseum whenever they think about Rome. No one cares about Greeks.

Romans are Italians you meme-fuck.

Is there a single, internal reason why the empire fell, or was it literally bad luck?

Old things are destined to die because they were made by the dead.

This is Alexios III Angelos, faithful ruler in Christ our God, emperor of the Romans. Say something nice about him.

Gr*ek

>Not him
If you said that to an actual Roman, they would slap your shit boi. You are literally putting the cart before the horse. Like you wouldn't call the Englishmen of the 1400s British or any person in Italy before Italy or even Italian nationalism was formed for that matter. You are looking at this from hindsight instead of what they would have seen themselves as.

" Let the Roman offspring be powerful, by Italian valor " Aeneid, XII, 827.

"I seek my fatherland, Italy, and a race from highest Jupiter." Virgil , Aeneid, Book I, lines 378-380.

"Nor is your prowess to be wondered at : straightway, still ignorant of Africa and its shallows, you entered the havens of Ausonia (Another name of Italy), and sailed, an adopted child, on Tuscan waters.....Neither your speech nor your dress is Punic, yours is no stranger's mind : Italian are you, Italian !" [by Septimius Severus].

I appreciate these sources, but a quick look over those works shows that Virgil referred to them by at least two different names. More to the point, this idea of an Italian identity did not supersede the Roman identity. Again, nobody conceived of this universal identity, like Virgy here, until Italian nationalism comes on the scene.

TL;DR I'm saying that Romans could not conceive of what your saying in the way your thinking.

Italy was 5% of the Roman empire. Italy is SMALL, so very small.

Ethnic Romans are part of the Italic people you stupid fuck.

From that small peninsula they conquered the entire Mediterranean. And people who got conquered by them wewuzing this hard

The Arch of Constantine is right next to the Colosseum. Constantine moved the capital of the empire to New Rome aka Constantinople.

>New Rome aka Constantinople.

aka Istanbul

delet this

Ottoman empire was a continuation of the Roman empire in many ways. Mehmed did use the title Caesar and they did have their own Roman Persian wars.

Greeks lost it to Muslims.

While Rome is still stand here, serving as the stronghold of Christianity

Shut the fuck up white subhuman. Safavids were Azerbaijani Turks. Don't fucking liken our kind to your inferior white subhuman kind. And Byzantines were NOT Roman to begin with so Ottomans have no claim on Rome.

>And people who got conquered by them wewuzing this hard
For good reason, they built by far the greatest civilization in that part of the world. Even the Turks larped as them.

>Ottomans have no claim on Rome
Not according to Mehmed who larped as Caesar

Fuck off white subhuman.
Turks had 3 main titles

1- Padishah (Iranic)
2- Khan (Turkic)
3- Sultan (Arabic)

Only some meme emperors used Roman titles. Who the fuck are you? Greatest civilization was created by Ancient Egyptians.

greatest civilizations ever existed

1- Ancient Egyptian (Black)
2- Sumerian (Black)
3- Chinese (Asian)
4- Harappa (Dravidian)
5- Seljuk (Oghuz)

Yeah. To the point Gr*eks who get conquered by them larped nearly thousand years as their conquerors. Based Romans

>Greatest civilization was created by Ancient Egyptians.
A river? A fucking river, lel? The Nile was conquered by the Assyrians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Turks, basically everyone. They could never build an empire or expand far beyond their river geography wouldn't allow that. Middle eastern civilizations were superior to Eygpt in every way and constantly conquered it. Even the Hyksos conquered it before the Iron Age.
>Only some meme emperors used Roman titles.
Mehmed the conqueror wasn't some meme emperor. The Ottomans were a tiny, smaller Turkish principality in northwestern Anatolia around the city of Sogut on the border next to the Byzantines. At first other Turks controlled far larger areas then them. Their entire claim to fame is conquering the Byzantine empire.

Ancient Egyptian civilization was greater than your meme empires. Greeks are subhumans.
Nile is the longest river in the world. It's not a "fucking river". It's a river that feeds the most beautiful Queen in the world, Africa.

>Nile is the longest river in the world.
"Turkish" "education"