Jesus' Family

I remember that serpent smashing bit, but that is an interesting bit of information: never considered the pagan influence onto later Christianity. I appreciate the help, user.

>Also, does anyone know their original names? I doubt they were called "James, Joseph, Jude and Simon in the time of Jesus
you mean in the sense that Jesus' actual name was Yēšūăʕ?
if so, their names were probably Yaʕăqob (James=Jacob), Yôsēp̄ (Joseph), Yehudah (Jude), and Šimʻôn (Simon).

For pronunciation consult this:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization_of_Hebrew

Stop, take this elsewhere

That's what I am saying. The idea of them being complete 100% siblings contradicts the later explanations from the Church. I think the passage clearly states the siblings as being completely related to Jesus

The Quran, as well versed, well organized and eloquent (at least too eloquent for a fucking shepherd like Muhammed) as it is, reads as if God (Allah) is the most arrogant and proud entity to ever exist.
Most passages are filled with "and he is the knowing and the wise", gets boring after a while.
What did you think about the 3th desert book, OP?

oh sorry i gave inconsistent transliterations, Šimʻôn is probably better rendered as Šimʕôn and I'm not sure about Yehudah.

i'm no expert on hebrew though so correct me if i'm wrong somewhere

I do! Thank you very much, user

Jesus being born of a virgin was far more than just a sign to the world, although it certainly was that.

Joseph and Mary both had a claim to the throne of David. However, Joseph's claim was invalid as he is a descendant of Jaconiah, who was cursed and whose line could never ascend to the throne. So had Jesus been the biological son of Joseph, Jesus would not have a valid claim to sit on David's throne.

As Mary, with no brothers, could only take land and inherit her birthright if she married within her tribe, she faithfully married someone within the tribe of Judah, her tribe, and the tribe that held the scepter.

So Jesus is born of two people of the House of David, which is why they had to report to Bethlehem, the City of David, for the census. But Jesus' claim to the throne of David is pure, as he is not biologically related to Joseph.

Further, as we all inherit the sins of our father, Jesus' father, God the Father, had no sin to inherit, and thus Jesus was born sinless.

Again, the mother earth cult in the 1850's declared that Mary too was born sinless, but this is an obvious attempt to equate her with the Son of God, as is calling Mary the Mother of God.

Mary is the mother of Jesus, and the mother of the Messiah, and the mother of the Lord, but never in the bible, or in reality, is she properly called the mother of God. Calling Mary the mother of God is a claim to divinity, just as Jesus calling himself the Son of God caused the Jews to pick up stones with which to kill him for blasphemy.

After all, kind begets kind, always, and God can only beget God.

The enemy chooses the field of battle, not our wishes.

Jesus would be Yehoshua in Hebrew, and Yeshua in Aramaic.

You would be shocked at the number of Jews who do not know that Jesus is Jewish.

livescience.com/50444-james-ossuary-talpiot-tomb-gallery.html
livescience.com/50434-jesus-family-tomb-geology.html

Shaytan Iblis of Jinn

You've been a big help, so I appreciate it

The Quran certainly does make God to be this untouchable, almost unreachable Entity that commands all the we know, see, and love. As repetitive as it got, I found that giving God so much praise was very respectful and almost proper considering the sheer amount of Force they give to God. All in all I liked the "3th desert book", but it is very contradictory as all religions seem to get in their writings.

Interesting, thank you Inquisitor-user. I will have to read through the Bible quickly again to see if indeed she is NEVER called the Mother of God

I was shocked as a non-religious person that Jesus was indeed a Jew. I always thought he was somehow removed from it like an old-time Pagan. Nope.

Seriously? They brought it up on Family Guy. I thought it was common knowledge.

>Watching Family Guy past season 7

There's a wonderful Youtube channel that is nothing but converted Jews telling their stories about living in Israel, and realizing that Jesus is indeed their Messiah.

Many of them start out by saying they picked up the dreaded New Testament, aka the How to Kill Jews Book, and read the following:

Matthew 1:1
The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham:

David? King David, the Jew?
Abraham? Abraham, the Father of the Jews?

What is this?

And almost to a person, they read Isaiah 53 with new eyes, and realized that the lies they had been told were false. Isaiah 53 is not about the country Israel.

Just as Maimonides had said, among others: Isaiah 53 is all about the Messiah. It's all about Jesus.

The word is translated as brother, but does not mean 'brother' as in, male relative with the same mother.

There's a curious verse that applies here:

2 Corinthians 3
But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.

They've been blinded by God. They cannot understand Moses and the Prophets, and do not understand the Law, nor why it was given.

Which is why context matters. The people of the trashy town of Nazareth were gossiping about Jesus, and why he thought he was all that, when he grew up with them, they knew his brothers, they knew his sisters, and he was just another piece of poor Jewish trash like they were.

While Hebrew family relational words can mean different things, you cannot choose which one you want it to mean based on what you want the text to say.

> livescience.com/50444-james-ossuary-talpiot-tomb-gallery.html
> livescience.com/50434-jesus-family-tomb-geology.html

Good job Shaytan Iblis,
a very good job indeed.

YHWH Allah

You make a good point, user. We use "brother" all the time to represent comrade and friend. Then again, the passage is referencing direct family when it starts out by listing "son of Mary"

Really don't have much patience for people who don't read their own links.

The James ossuary was first revealed to the public in 2002, but the Israel Antiquities Authority later said that the latter part of the inscription - "brother of Jesus," was a forgery. After a seven-year trial, a judge cleared the Oded Golan, who owned the box, of forgery. Now, a new geological analysis says it has the same chemical signature as ossuaries from the Talpiot tomb.

Aye, but in a different context, that could be step-son, grandson, great-grandson, son-in-law, etc. Hebrew doesn't distinguish between these.

Jesus is most definitely the son of Mary, and Jesus is most definitely the Son of God.

However, conflating those two statements to declare that Mary is therefore the Mother of God is to deny the eternal existence of the Trinity, or to engage in modalism, etc.

God did not need Mary to exist, in other words, and Jesus, being eternal, did not begin his existence in Mary's womb.

This is why I am loving Christianity so far. The absolute astounding depth to the lore and theology is fascinating. It's crazy how long the debate lasted between Trinity acceptance and Trinity denial before the Canon was established. Santa Claus knocking out Arius, several Germanic nations taking the belief anyway, wars.... it's insane

well this is Jesus younger brother Xiuquan

>God did not need Mary to exist
Yes he did. Her birthing Jesus and giving him a legit claim to David's line was her reason for existance and if so then her existance was eternal unless God only plans 5 minutes before the fact.

Wait until the day your mind opens, and you realize it's all true.

You will not forget that day.

No, no He did not. Jesus created the universe four thousand years before Mary was born.

Taipings eh? Funny how Christianity is seeping its way back into China with the Communist party supporting a monitored, secularized system

>her existance was eternal

And here we see in motion that pagan deification of the mother earth goddess.

Seeping? Flooding, I'd say. 150,000,000 Christians and exploding upwards.

Resisting the Urge to cast out the demons of imperial Zhou

It’s simple. The prophecy only specified that the Messiah be born from a virgin mother, it never said that the mother had to STAY a virgin after giving birth. Jesus’s siblings could therefore be his younger siblings, conceived after the birth of Christ, without clashing with the prophecy.

Everything that's part of God's plan was always meant to exist.

I think you are both saying that same thing. Jesus is God, the All-Eternal and All-Powerful. Jesus did NOT need Mary to exist, but to exist in our mortal plane with a proper claim to Earthly thrones and crowns then Mary was necessary. Right?

>checked
And I am getting there, user. I find beauty and truth in even mythology. I love how much humanity seeks to know the unknown

Guess what your soul is also eternal, difference is Mary had a special purpose that wasn't a coincidence.

People like things that they like.

No, you're missing the crucial piece that he is insisting upon, that Mary herself is sinless; that Mary is the eternal virgin, and that Mary is the Mother of God.

By deifying Mary, the pagan hopes to appeal to a motherly figure, a soft, comforting, tender figure, and not to the Father, aka the Lord of Hosts, whom they feel is beyond them and out of their reach.

Because he is.

>150,000,000 to 1,379,000,000
>barely 10%

Just making a relative statement compared to the absolute fuck-ton of people who live there. But you are right in a way... the amount of baptisms that are going on are exponentially growing

Thanks, Basket-user for a another way of looking at it

I really get that feeling too, but it may be influence from the sheer metric-shitton of power attributed to God in the Quran

Souls are not eternal. They do not pre-exist your conception. That is New Age eastern mysticism.

Guess I am, it's all a lot to wrap my head around. Mary is human. Nothing special other than a host to the Lord of Hosts. But she is special then because thanks to her, Jesus got to fulfill his destiny and redeem mankind.

God does not appear in the koran, only allah, and allah is not God.

allah is a trickster, a deceiver, a plotter and planner, who hates the Jews and has no children.

In the bible, that being is called satan.

It's modern taqiyya to insist that allah is just the Arabic word for God, and that the Arabs worship the same God as the Jews. It's an absolutely absurd lie.

It also contradicts their battle cry in jihad, Allahu Ackbar, "Allah is greater than your god!" that they use against Jews and Christians alike.

>Souls are not eternal
Then how will I live in eternity amongst the Kingdom of Heaven?

Amen.

But knowing my Lord, if it wasn't Mary, it would just be someone else who was willing. Mary was willing, so it was Mary.

Then you are saying than Jesus just spun the whomb lottery before birth and it accidentally chose Mary? Or was she predestined to exist for that purpose.

Eternal goes backwards and forwards.

Your soul only goes forwards.

God uses the willing, and never forces himself on anybody.

God knew Mary would be willing. Had God known Mary would not have been willing, the catholics would be praying to some other woman who was.

>Christian Arabs refer to God as Allah, it is a descendant of Semitic words for God like Elaha or Alaha.

After spending some time researching Islam and reading the Quran, I can safely say you are stretching truths here. Dare I say... using taqiyya yourself

That's your definition of eternity for God we all already created as he knows everything.

Y'know, that's kind of mindblowing. What would you call the timeline of a soul then? Destiny?

I was getting that from the Bible more than the Quran. God has a LOT more force in the Quran, but then his relation to mankind is almost non-existent. This makes him a little harder to worship if you ask me

OP, asking Christians to explain discrepancues isln the bible is a bad idea.
Typically each sect has it's own interpretation of the bible, some take it more literally than others.

Orthodox, Catholic and to some extent, Lutherans, don't take the bible as literally as the newer, more retarded sects.

The best theological "I actually believe this garbage" explanation is the half brother and the emmaculate conception forwarded by the roman papacy and generally accepted by modern day orthodoxy.
Another explanation is the "point of view" explanation where it was just as they saw it but in reality such aforementioned people weren't actually related but for reasons ended up living in his daddy's house.
Probably because when Mary figured out she could get away with Jesus, she then went on to cheat with more people.

Other explanations could be the bibles compilation at the first ecumenical wasn't all too perfect and that bit of apocrypha slipped by.

She virgin birthed the rest of them but they're not God because no sense necessary.

Some sects don't think of marry as the eternal virgin but rather asva virgin up to that point.
Like she had to wait till Jesus came out or some such nonesense.

Al-lah is a name, not a title.
Elohim, and God, are titles.

God has Jesus as his only begotten Son.

In Islam, God has no son and the muslims are disgusted by the thought of God having children coming out of a birth canal. They are not the same beings.

As I told you before you posted, the modern lie that Allah is just another word for God is straight out of the pit of hell.

and you are not as God is

allah also forgives, or does not forgive, on a whim; allah also has no clear set means of salvation; allah is sovereign and cannot be counted on to even keep his own word.

Most importantly, allah never performed any act of love for mankind, and most especially not the greatest act of love possible: laying down one's own life for another.

allah wants to be god, and wants to be worshiped as god. He has wanted such since before mankind was created. He will never achieve it.

>3790199
Roman catholics have the most robust theology thanks to them not being afraid to reach out to pre-christian philosophy in thier search for better understanding and re-interpretation.

Is the Mormon faith really as wacky as all the tv shows and documentaries portray it?

I'm getting that vibe too, Orthodoxy is profound too but I have not reached out to it. Like says,

I don't think it is a bad idea, I just wanted general input from more learned and more read Christians - regardless of sect or belief.

Al = the
Lah = deity or God (depending on Pagan or Abrahamic times)

Germanic languages get "God" from godan/wotan.

But I do agree that the idea of Jesus being a son of God is seen as "misinterpretation" on Jesus' part.

That's the feeling I got too. "Worship me BECAUSE I am all powerful and created you". But then again, the love of any creator should be felt by the created and returned in full.

Exactly. They draw on 4000 years of paganism to support their pagan religion. They started in Babylon, not Rome.

Yes. South Park nailed it. Read the CES letter for a complete and total expose on how the Book of Mormon was cobbled together with books available to known huckster and con man Joe Smith.

lds.org/scriptures/bofm/bofm-title?lang=eng

Read for yourself, user. "Another Testament of Jesus Christ" is next on my reading list after I finish the Bible twice.

The prophet, Joseph Smith declared the Bible and his Book infallible... yet contradicted it by allowing plural marriages.

>"The Bible and the Book of Mormon teach that monogamy is God’s standard for marriage unless He declares otherwise (see 2 Samuel 12:7–8 and Jacob 2:27, 30). Following a revelation to Joseph Smith, the practice of plural marriage was instituted among Church members in the early 1840s (see section 132). From the 1860s to the 1880s, the United States government passed laws to make this religious practice illegal. These laws were eventually upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court. After receiving revelation, President Wilford Woodruff issued the following Manifesto, which was accepted by the Church as authoritative and binding on October 6, 1890. This led to the end of the practice of plural marriage in the Church."

You don't think Jesus knows that He is the Son of God?

I have a much better read for you.

cesletter.org/

No, no I do think Jesus knew and claimed it. I am saying that I agree with that Islam has a negative opinion to Jesus' relation to God

Keep reading, Jesus seems to like to conceal His nature as the Son of God towards some people while manifesting towards others directly
There's a nice passage in which Peter ask if Jesus could let them see the Father, and Jesus answers saying that He was here in front of them

>cesletter.org/
This is profound, thank you, user! I will read it alongside "Another Testament of Jesus Christ"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Ossuary
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talpiot_Tomb

Garry! Donation!
Thanks, Jimmy

>checked
I shall, thanks, user!

She was a maiden not a virgin. That was done to merge mythras and Jesus

The Cult of Mithras certainly is interesting. The more I read about it the more I got the sense that it was a direct reaction by Pagans to contact with Christianity. Like a revival effort almost

OP here, going to step away for a while. Keep up the discussion though! This is all very enlightening

It preceeded Christ. Some interesting things
Hindu diwali cult pops up 700 years before Christ.
Essene sect pops up 100bc. Essenes pray for a messiah and Jesus was delivered. The wise men of Ur were told of the birth of the light bringer by the diwali cult.

Diwali is the festival of light and life.

To some extent yes. Though I find Coptic orthodoxy to be closer to original Christian intent.
I always leaned towards monophysitism.
It's mire logical than the roman sees ideas.

More like they understand people asked the same questions about god for centuries and now with his words revealed to humans they can use the insight of previous generations. Theology, philosophy and hard science go hand in hand with god and only fools would try to discard the insight they can provide.

The Arabic word for God is ILAH Not LAH
The God in Arabic is AL-ILAH not AL-LAH
ALLAH is one if his 99 names.

There you go.

G-D

We've seen those Super Bibles being published by "The Catholic Church" sole proprietor (Not affiliated with Roman Catholic Church or associated), they're great.

Old Testament, New Testament, Last Testament (Koran), so cool.

Love your English Translation of Holy Qur'an (Koran) the best, unpronounceable YHWH Allah (LORD God) of the Prophet Muhammad's "Recitation" throughout.

Surely: You've made Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad great again.

Some others being Satan, Lucifer. Fallen Angel, Father of Lies, Trickster, Deceiver, Son of Perdition, Serpent, Great Serpent, False Angel, and of course Shaitan.

God is a title. You merely display your utter ignorance by refusing to put the vowel in God.

YHWH is a name, or rather, a placeholder for a name.

God is a title, like Adonai or Elohim. Your sanctimonious G-d is nothing more than false Jew virtue signalling.

Phillip. Phillip asks Jesus to show them the Father, so that they can believe, and Jesus, rather exasperated, says "Have I been with you all this time and you ask me this? If you have seen me, you have seen the Father."

Mary was a virgin, and maiden also implies virgin, as does being betrothed in Israel in 32 AD. Nobody would marry a whore.

He bound The Books together,
He bound The Folks together,
Surely: Peace Be Upon Him.

The Essenes believed that there were two messiahs, not one. They reasoned that no one man could both die for his brothers, and establish an eternal throne.

John the baptist was influenced by these men of Masada, as John sent disciples to ask Jesus if he is the messiah, or if there is another messiah coming.

Jesus tells the men to tell John of all the miracles he has performed, miracles which are attributed by the Jews to both the Messiah @ Joseph and the Messiah @ David. Jesus told John there is only one Messiah, and that Jesus is that Messiah.

You are attempting to justify the pagan religions of Rome paganizing Christianity. Perhaps you do not know what a disaster this was, or the hundred million souls murdered by Rome in this effort.

When Constantine decriminalized Christianity, and then supported it, the pagans were baptized and told they were now Christians. They did nothing but take a bath. They had no idea how to be Christians.

So they took their idols to Horus and Isis and just renamed them Jesus and Mary, and kept all of their Ishtar/Saturnalia festivities as pagans had for thousands of years.

Rome did not Christianize pagans; pagans bastardized Christianity into Catholicism.

You have to be very shrewd to read about these things, because the mythos about the pagan deities changed after Jesus.

So before Jesus, Horus, for instance, had almost nothing in common with Jesus. After Jesus, suddenly Horus has 12 disciples, walked on water, performed miracles, was born of a virgin on December 25, etc.

Jesus broke into time and changed everything.

In a way, yes. It's very much a product of the second great awakening and nineteenth century popular culture, so it has some weird things going on. Pretty much everything you see brought up to criticism the LDS church or mock it is accurate.

For example, people love to make fun of the golden plates story, but that's far from the weirdest part of the history of Mormon scripture. The book that contains most of their cosmology (like the stuff about Kolob, the different kinds of God, and the nature of Jesus) are all from the Gospel of Abraham; Joseph Smith supposedly translated this book from a bunch of papyrus documents he bought from an antique dealer, and claimed they were a lost gospel written by Abraham (which is, in itself a ridiculous claim). Other scholars have since looked at the documents and translated them, and (because Joseph Smith didn't actually know how to read hieroglyphics), found out that he completely made the whole thing up, and they say nothing of the sort. Mormons still accept Smith's translation as being inspired by God and therefore the "real" translation. There's also the whole fiasco with the Kinderhook plates.

...

Give 'em hell, Moses!

>read a trilogy
>start with the third book
What the fuck

Jesus brothers mean relatives since the word siblings mean both blood siblings and relatives. Or it could even be Joseph's kids from other marriage.
Our Lady is forever Virgin.

Give 'em hell, Jesus!

...