5 year lifter here, about to drop a massive red pill on all of you guys. Screenshot this thread for future reference.
This is comparing the total protein synthesis up-time + total yearly workload for the following 4 routines: Full Body, vs PPL(or U/L), vs Brosplit.
>Full Body Routine - (3x) weekly frequency -Incline Bench 3x10x100kg = 3000KG -Body-weight Dips 3x15x85kg = 3825KG Total weekly load = 20,475KG Total monthly load = 81,900KG Total load (6 months) = 491,400KG Total load (12 months) = 982,800KG Frequency on activation of heightened protein synthesis for chest = 156 + 982,800KG total yearly workload for chest.
>PPL or Upper/Lower - (2x) weekly frequency -Flat Bench 5x5x115kg = 2875KG -Incline Bench 3x10x100kg = 3000KG -Body-weight Dips 3x15x85kg = 3825KG Total weekly load = 19,400KG Total monthly load = 77,600KG Total load (6 months) = 465,600KG Total load (12 months) = 913,200KG Frequency on activation of heightened protein synthesis for chest = 104 + 913,200KG total yearly workload for chest.
>Bro-split - (1x) weekly frequency -Flat Bench 5x5x115kg = 2875KG -Incline Bench 3x10x100kg = 3000KG -Decline Bench 3x10x100kg = 3000KG -Body-weight Dips 3x15x85kg = 3825KG -Dumb-bell Fly - 3x15x25kg = 1125KG (x2 DB's) = 2250KG -Cable Fly- 3x15x30KG = 1130KG (x2 pulley) = 2260KG -Pec Dec - 3x20x60KG = (Pin Loaded single stack) = 3600KG Total weekly load = 20,810KG Total monthly load = 83,240KG Total load (6 months) = 499,440KG Total load (12 months) = 998,880KG Frequency on activation of heightened protein synthesis for chest = 52 + 998,880KG total yearly workload for chest.
It tells us that regardless of what level of lifting you're at, whether it be novice or intermediate, advanced or elite; Full body > PPL/UL > Bro-split.
Jayden Stewart
>explaining something in a way that only people who already know it could even begin to understand
looks like you forgot to exercise your brain
Adam Russell
It's a comparison of how much times your chest undergoes a heightened state of protein synthesis, as well as how much total yearly workload your chest will get.
>Full Body Heightened state of protein synthesis for chest = 156 times per year Total workload (based on suggest lifts/numbers) = 982,800KG per year Total exercises that stimulate chest = 2
>PPL or U/L Heightened state of protein synthesis for chest = 104 times per year Total workload (based on suggest lifts/numbers) 913,200KG per year Total exercises that stimulate chest = 3
>Bro-Split Heightened state of protein synthesis for chest = 52 times per year Total workload (based on suggest lifts/numbers) 998,880KG per year Total exercises that stimulate chest = 7
Jackson Jackson
Even with the SAME amount of volume, you get more growth with more frequency.
Total volume is not all that matters, at all..
Check out the menno henselmans interview by jeff nippard. It is pretty much only talking about advanced natural lifters.
6x frequency got more growth than 3x frequency, got much more growth than 1x frequency, all with the same total volume
So even if 3x has slightly lower volume, it could easily result in leaa growth
Kayden Allen
What about adding weight tho?
Josiah Rivera
wanna know how I know you're small as fuck?
Mason Adams
That isn't necessary in this example. The bro-split would be getting shit on even more.
And even if it was, the results would still be the same. Full Body would end up with more total workload than PPL/UL and PPL/UL would end up with more workload than Bro-split. Due to the fact higher frequency = easier to progressively overload with adding weight to the bar.
You would end up with the exact same result again. FB > PPL/UL > Brosplit.
Brayden Flores
Wanna know how I know you do a brosplit?
Hows those 15 inch arms and 185 pound squat going for you at 6ft+ after 3 years on bro splitting going for you? kek.
Brody Nguyen
who the fuck runs fullbody for a year anyways lol
ppl/ul are the way to go familia, been running my own power/hypertrophy ppl for a few months now, shits cash
Jose Rivera
Fullbody =\= novice LP routine
Charles Martinez
>who the fuck runs fullbody for a year anyways lol
I don't think you understand.
Full body has more protein synthesis uptime and total workload than a PPL or UL...
William Kelly
>who the fuck runs fullbody for a year anyways lol
Natural lifters who want to be strong and big.
Occasional change of pace to a U/L split is fine, too, but full-body is how most proper programming is designed for natural lifters.
Jaxson Collins
You've probably heard of Alphonse Density then
Colton Martinez
so what's a good full body routine for an intermediate lifter?
Grayson Lee
I still don't understand. What am I supposed to be looking at here? I do a body part split because that's what everyone else does that I see at my gym and they're all bigger than me so I just copy them.
Jason Lopez
What is an example of a intermediate fullbody?
Been looking to change routines any how, ppl a shit
Eli Campbell
Not trying to shill Alphonse's stuff, but he has a couple of sample routines on his website outalpha dot com
Tyler Jackson
Most people have been doing splits since arnold. Shit is highly suboptimal for natties
Henry Lopez
I'm coming from powerlifting, so I'd be biased towards TSA Intermediate, Texas Method, Nuckol's Free Programs, 5/3/1 Full-Body Variants, etc.
Training for "pure hypertrophy" as a natty is a bit fruitless. Go for strength, and size will follow.
Nicholas Murphy
should we then drop our routines and do FB with DUP or block periodization?
Nolan Bell
Popularity of the split came with the increased popularity of steroids as it is considered most efficient for enhanced lifters.
Joshua Hernandez
you ride the short bus don't you
David Bennett
Do you have any credible sources to back up your data?
Im gonna need to know what routines were used exactly before looking into this aswell
This link is a start, but the strength training community has know this stuff... forever.
Henry Morris
Im not asking for it to be explained but rather for it to be backed up, or am i supposed to listen to all the bro science i hear daily in this shithole?
You could always give it a try or look into concurrent periodisation
Michael Gomez
Pretty much all you need for the rest of your life.
Mason Reed
For info on volume being the only deciding factor in growth, outside of frequency, check out greg cuckols strengtheory article. And peeling back a layer episodes 1 and 5.
Protein synthesis is only elevated 24-48 hours after training.
This is all the info you need
Caleb Murphy
You dont know shit senpai
Jack Brown
>Anonymous 07/18/16(Mon)13:46:09 No.37966372▶ What's best for natty then?
Elijah Sanders
Literally read the thread
Juan Russell
Don't steroids decrease recovery time though? So shouldn't they be using a higher frequency program not a lower frequency one?
Jack Sullivan
Steroids don't help joints recover faster. If you lift to grow as fast as possible on roids, you could snap your shit up. These principles could still be applied successfully to a roider, i.e. Dorian yayes/ralph metzner style as opposed to arnie/zane pumpchasing.
Basically you do natty volume and frequency, just go balls to the wall with intensity, training past failure on each set
Joseph Rivera
P.s. Menno henselmans' interview with jeff nippard talks about 6x frequency for natty lifters. Granted that only applies to advanced lifters, not novice or intermediate (99.99% of Veeky Forums) it was still an interesting discussion
Jaxon Harris
Yeah this. Guys who go from bitch weights or nothing to trying to lift the entire gym in short her after getting on major gear almost always fuck up their joints and ligaments.
Guys ripping their muscles muscles from their bones is the norm.