Did the U.S. really know about Pearl Harbor that far in advance?

Did the U.S. really know about Pearl Harbor that far in advance?

No.

FDR was a Jew traitor so of course.

It wouldn't make any sense of they did. If we knew about the attack beforehand, then why not prepare the anti-air guns and fighters?

Leaders don't think like pesants.

Days, yes. They had two emissaries cool their heels in DC waiting for an audience. That audience would have been a declaration of war against the US.

We lost a grand total of 1 ship.

Sure, but we could have lost no ships, fewer planes, and taken no real damage and almost no loss of life had we simply prepared the defenses beforehand.

>if only we had an excuse to go to war... what if....

No, there were more ships lost than one you speak of, presumably the Arizona. The Oklahoma was considered a total loss, even though it was righted and floated. The Utah was a total loss. Cassin and Downes in drydock. The Helena pier side was destroyed I believe. There were likely others, but those come to mind.

An attack on Pearl Harbor is still a declaration of war regardless of whether it succeeds or not, so why not ensure that it fails?

I'm really not sure what your point is. If the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, then that by itself would be a casus belli, even if no Americans actually died in the attack. The idea that the U.S. government somehow had to make the attack more damaging in order to justify a war is downright silly.

Nothing silly about it. Blood is what promotes the public to want war, which is why FDR allowed so many American merchant mariners to die in 1942, shortly after Germany declared war on the US. He needed dead bodies in order to prosecute the war with solid public support. So he let the Germans create some dead American bodies.

The public didn't need to want war, because it wasn't our choice whether we wanted war or not, the Japs and the Germans declared war on us, so it would be completely pointless to let sailors die for no reason.

>blood is what promotes the public to want war
Actually if you'd read accounts of american citizens who'd lives through ww2 you'd know that americans were more pissed about the japs attacking them for no raison than just because a lot of people died. Keep in mind that due to the shit japan was pulling in china, most americans were already against them.

No? Do you have any credible primary sources saying that they did?

Oh sweet summer child. The US public was weary of getting into another european war. They wouldn't be able to sell it if the headlines ran "JAPS ATTACK PEARL HARBOR: EVERYTHING FINE EXCEPT SOLDIER SPRAINS ANKLE JUMPING OUT OF JEEP".

No, the politicians can be removed from office, if they prosecute a war the voters don't want. There was fierce opposition to war, and that had to be overcome. Dead bodies are the means to overcome that. If all Hitler did was to "declare war", it likely wouldn't have swayed an antiwar population.

You can't draw some imaginary distinction saying the 2,300 dead didn't matter to the people, but the sneak did. Both mattered, and in this case you couldn't have one without the other, so your point is not determinate.

An attack on a U.S. navy installation is an act of war, whether it kills 1 person or 1000.

>still missing the point despite 2 different posters spoonfeeding you

Oh well. It's lunch anyway.

The truth is that neither mattered. Japan declared war on the United States.

You're really making the rounds today, huh?

>t. brainlet

Let's imagine a scenario where Japan doesn't attack Pearl Harbor at all, but instead merely sends a formal declaration of war through diplomatic channels and then invades the Philippines shortly afterwards. This alone would have been enough to pull America into WW2, even if Japan never even attempted to strike Pearl Harbor.

>No, the politicians can be removed from office, if they prosecute a war the voters don't want
It wasn't up to the politicians whether or not we prosecuted the war, it was up to Japan and Germany, and by declaring war on us they made the choice for us.

these smoloko-tier pictures always give me a giggle

>ITT brainlets are spawning

Number of ships at the bottom of Pearl Harbor: 1

You don't get this. You're a concrete linear thinker.

FDR was frantic to get the USA into the war, and it took years on the European front.

Letting Pearl Harbor happen instantly galvanized the nation.

ah yes because its only a loss if it touched the seafloor

>Germany declares war on the U.S.
>OMG why is FDR sending troops to Europe!!!!!!!!!

There's not much to suggest that FDR or anyone in the US government knew exactly when and where a Japanese attack was headed but due to intercepted messages it was a certainty that Japan WAS planning on an attack in the immediate future, though the most likely targets seemed to be the Philippines and other pacific bases not Hawaii.

No, again, a partial list of ships sunk at Pearl Harbor are in my post above, and it's more than 1.

I don’t see why we allow ourselves to still have these threads.
Almost every poster that pushes the Pearl Harbor was known and allowed to happen narrative ends up being completely historically and politically illiterate, just let them have their stupidity.

Far enough out to put all their modern aircraft carriers and support ships to sea in the days before the attack. Roosevelt needed an excuse to go to war and something to rally Americans to war in foreign lands when public opinion was against doing so, the attack at Pearl Harbor was the perfect opportunity. It worked perfectly, the US lost minimal military infrastructure, only soldiers were killed and anyone that thinks governments wouldn't sacrifice some soldiers (or civilians) in order to attain broader geo political goals, is terrible naive.

>America was directly warned by Australia, who spotted the fleet heading towards the direction of Pearl Harbor, the President and Joint Chiefs were aware.

>Roosevelt needed an excuse to go to war

An attack on an essential naval installation by a foreign power is not an "excuse," it is a legitimate cause for war. And Japan, issued a formal declaration of war immediately after the attack, so even if the attack had killed 0 people and damaged 0 ships, America still would have been at war. And even if the Pearl Harbor attack hadn't occurred at all, the formal declaration of war by itself would have been enough to draw America into the war. The idea that the U.S. government somehow needed to make the attack worse is fucking stupid.

I have yet to see a single source in this entire thread.

It's more that they don't know where the fuck the Combined Fleet was, only that it wasn't in Japan, but didn't put all their Pacific stations on high alert

>Australia is a single entity
So who exactly?
You literally don’t understand that if 9/11 had been a freak incident and only the occupants of the plane died nothing would be done differently
We would still go to war
We would still be outraged
If the LV shooter only hit 3 people and didn’t kill anyone the public would still have an outcry
Letting them attack us unprepared is something only you and people as stupid as you can justify.

While yall argue if thr government let it happen, it's well known radar on the north part of Oahu picked up the first wave and if they didn't think it was a glitch or a flight of B-17s they could have given them ample warning

Except FDR never did convince the USA to get into the war, it happened naturally when Japan and Germany declared war on us, which would have happened regardless of whether Pearl Harbor succeeded or failed.

In 1943, Oklahoma was righted and salvaged. Unlike most of the other battleships that were recovered following Pearl Harbor, Oklahoma was too damaged to return to duty. Her wreck was eventually stripped of her remaining armament and superstructure before being sold for scrap in 1946. The hulk sank in a storm while being towed from Oahu in Hawaii to a breakers yard in San Francisco Bay in 1947.

FDR was frantic to get the US in the war against Germany.

After Pearl Harbor, he was terrified that the US would be unable to do so, because the public would insist on diverting all resources to a war against Japan.

It was only after Germany declared war that he started to chill.