Why is Ukraine doing so badly compared to other ex-USSR states?

Why is Ukraine doing so badly compared to other ex-USSR states?

Ukrainians were always a peasant nation that couldn't govern itself.
First it had Poles to do it for them, later Germans and Russians.

Now they have no one.

>peasant nation
You're saying that like it's a bad thing. And it's not the reason why Ukraine is a shithole.

Are they really doing worse than other non-Baltic ex-Soviet states?

Yes. Their economy fell off a cliff when they pivoted towards Europe and following the subsequent invasion. Literally no one wants to invest there.
They were hoping the EU would help them but Ukraine has become sought of an international awkward situation, they'll never join the EU for as long Russia is involved in East Ukraine, and I doubt they're willing to cut their lossess and go crawling back to Russia.
It's a shame, really. Ukraine by all accounts should be the Germany of Eastern Europe: (formally) highly industrialized, highly strategic area, ridiculously good farmland, large population...it's a tragedy, really.
Russia and friends (Eurasian Union) are actually doing incredibly well right now thanks to a recovering oil price, with Armenia being the surprising stand out.

Personally I think that due to the internal west-east division, and politics built around it, Ukraine was never able to form any kind of social consensus and so never left the 1990s state of affairs of very weak state controlled by oligarchic groups. Hard to imagine businessmen running basically private armies in modern Russia, or the state being so short of everything that it would use them as adjuncts to its armed forces.
Ukraine's problem is chronic government mismanagement dating through the 1990s and probably even getting worse during the Orange period, with the result that Ukraine today is still a lot like Russia was in the 1990s, which is not good.
Yes, along with Georgia and Moldova they're the only ex-Soviet state that hasn't surpassed 1989 GDP per capita. Their GDP PPP per capita is about on par with Angola or Namibia. But Georgia and Moldova were agricultural countries that have had civil wars in the past 20 years, so they have an excuse. Ukraine was the Soviet industrial center, at least in the East.

So even the -stans are beating them?

Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan are. Others are doing worse in absolute terms, but in relative terms are doing better on part of having actually improved since 1989 instead of regressing. Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan were the only -stans with development even close to Ukraine's in 1989 and they're literally x2-3 richer than Ukraine now going by GDP per capita (PPP).

Ukrainians and Jews.
When Austrian government start D&C tactic in Galizia it was Ukrainian Jews(secular) who take control and lead that movement.
That should not go as surprise as even in time of PLC Jews were used by Russo/Polish nobles(oligarchs) as middlemen.
That even show later where OUN and UPA had high percentage of Jewish/Ukrainian intelligentsia leading them.
And you can see it even now as most oligarchs courts and parliament is Jewish.

Yeap.
At last -stans are more or less stable with functioning governments where Ukraine is a failed state where people can not even get pensions and nothing work.

Ukraine is doing so bad that even unfortunate countries like north Africa ( no water no good farmlands less population no gas and oil except Algeria) are doing better, I think it's corruption, in this country everything is done with money.

I think Libya has oil in North Africa

Libya is pretty much a civil war zone, Morocco is a good example, probably the least natural ressources in all of africa yet is doing pretty good with it's tourism.

>Russia
>doing incredibly well right now
eh... maybe if you're ok with illiberal politics and with a GDP per capita that's significantly below that of Western Europe/the US

Compared to Ukraine right now and Russia in 90 it doing extremely(focus on extremely) well.
Still not good but good enough.

soviet collapse was the worst thing to happen to the region, Ukraine became the prostitution capital of Europe given how bad living standards shrank under capitalist reforms, honestly if it wasn't for the whole antagonism between east and west I think socialism would have suited them better on the long run

>Ukraine became the prostitution capital of Europe
Isn't that Moldova?

Economic development is now everything

If you exclude the Baltics, Ukraine is one of, if not the most free and democratic post-Soviet countries

Yes, even Nigeria and Sudan are more economically developed than Ukraine.

Illiberal politics are overrated, look at China.
Incredibly well compared to even a few years ago, let alone the 1990s. Still shit by Western standards, but they're getting there.

is this real?

Yes, Ukrainians are literally white niggers

Are there really that many anti-Ukrainians on Veeky Forums?
Simply mention Ukraine on most boards and you get shitposted to death.

this board is mostly anti-g*rman

Adam Tooze's Deluge had large segment about Ukraine, about it being an entirely artificial, hastily made up entity invented by the Germans in 1918 as a mean to contain Russia. The place is chaotic by design, not through the circumstances.

Sugi pula, javra.

Why are there so many fucking Nazi sympathizer groups in Ukraine, I mean didn't the nazis plan on wiping them out to provide land for krauts?

Ukrainians aren't very bright.

I'm just waiting for some stormfaggots to post pictures of Ukrainian people welcoming Nazis as liberators, so I can BTFO you with an actual quote.

Post quote anyway.

>Koch's first act as Reichskommissar was to close local schools, declaring that "Ukraine children need no schools. What they'll have to learn will be taught them by their German masters."[1] His brutality is best exemplified by his remark, "If I meet a Ukrainian worthy of being seated at my table, I must have him shot."[8] Koch worked together with the General Plenipotentiary for Labour Deployment (Generalbevollmächtigter für den Arbeitseinsatz) Fritz Sauckel in providing the Reich with forced labor. He was also involved in the persecution of Polish and Ukrainian Jews. Due to his brutal actions, Nazi rule in Ukraine was disturbed by a growing number of partisan uprisings.[1]

>Statements about the Germans as a Herrenvolk (master race) belong to the Nazi officials of various ranks. In particular when Reichskommissar Ukraine Erich Koch said:
We are a master race, which must remember that the lowliest German worker is racially and biologically a thousand times more valuable than the population here.
—Erich Koch, March 5th 1943, [9]

And how many of these are actual Nazi sympathizers and not just nationalists? Because labeling any nationalist movement that wants to keep independence from Russia as Nazi is a well known propaganda tactic.

>(((Shirer)))
OF course...

corruption
gave up on nukes
awful usage of the most fertile land on earth (to the point where they are selling it off to chinks) and other resources
weak national spirit to the point where they have to make up their history and national heroes

Not an argument.

It's just their nature to betray everybody and destroy themselves in the process

No national identity to fall back to

Tooze didn't say this

Because it's an artificial construct in every sense.

As opposed to?

As opposed to organic one like Poland.
Thing is even artificial constructs can work but Ukraine do not.
'Ukraine pork not work'

you could potentially say the same about other countries that emerged only in 20 century like latvia, estonia, slovakia, slovenia etc and yet they aren't doing that bad
on other hand for example moldava has quite a decent history and yet they are still a poor shithole

Those countries are successful because they integrated in EU very well

what is the rule for any ethnicity to become a nation state? the ukrainians were historically independent multiple times. the concept of a russian state is predated by independent states in ukraine.

Hierarchy of Slavs according to Germany

>Honorary aryan tier (not really Slavs anyway)
Slovaks, Croats, Bulgarians

>Meh tier
Czechs

>Low tier (make good slaves, and nothing else)
Serbs, Montenegrins

>100% untermensch trash tier (send these shits to the gas chambers ASAP)
Poles, Ukrainians, Russians, Belarusians

>No argument
OF course...

yet germany could've had a hugely valuable ally if only they aligned themselves with the other oppressed slavic ethnic groups. truly shows how absolutely boneheadedly retarded germany was.

Funny thing is how Hitler was ready to promote Poles to highest Slav tier before Poland introduced more pro-allied policy. Really shows that in his ranking he didn't really care about intelligence or appearance, but current political situation instead.

Revisionism
Poland would get fucked either way because it had the pirmary territories Germany wanted to reclaim.
Might as well say that Jews were privileged while he wanted to resettle them on Madagascar.

It really baffles me, on one hand it makes perfect sense to only utilise propaganda to gain claims against others or to convince your people of some righteousness in your actions, but at the same time nazis were extremely autistic and thorough with their genocidal plans, which makes it seem like they truly believed in their racial superiority, DESPITE changing their minds about some nationalities.

"white" nationalism in general is nothing but an anglo meme, the term is so flexible purposely to include or exclude whatever groups benefit your political agenda.
Slavs are now being included in contemporary white ethno-nationalist movements when back then they were seen as filthy subhumans

There are problems here.
First, Ukrainian identity is only strong in west. Everywhere else it's weak.
Second, Ukrainian identity was a product of a part of their elite and foreigners, not a strictly native project. A project in WESTERN Ukraine.
Third, modern Ukraine was literally made by Lenin.
Fourth, all of their industrialization depended on greater Soviet/Russian market.
And thus you get modern Ukraine.
Ukraine might even exist. But not in it's present borders. Everything east of Dnepr isn't Ukrainian, they are either Russians, or sovoks who maintain Ukrainian identity out of inertia, but that's the extent of their national feeling.
And I'm being generous here.
So yes, every identity is "artificial" in a way, but not every identity is the same.
And historically speaking, Ukrainians are nothing but Polonized Russians/East Slavs.

How would Poles deal with the reality that Germany wanted, and wasn't willing to negotiate, the territory of Poland? They would have two choices:

>Be good cucks and yield to Germany, on which case a large part of their population would be deported to Siberia, and the rest would have to live as second-class citizens

>Resist, on which case the Krauts would go for extermination

Which is it, Polack?

i disagree in my bumfuck middle of nowhere town im from they are honoring men shot in the protests had a huge parade through the center and generally destroyed quite a few statues of communists except for the ww2 monuments of course

actually the mayor who started many restoration attempts got shot in kiev protest so its not hopeless these people do feel patriotic even though its easy to see their struggle with contempt

poltava oblast this area

You know why he was honoring Pilsudski?
Because he was dead and it cost him nothing.
Germans did not offer Poland nothing that vague promises at best and sometimes not even that.
Resist.
Seriously the only option for Poland was either ally with USSR or with Allies.
They ally with West for obvious reasons because Germans offer nothing other than give us what we want and we maybe would think about for you(maybe, no promises). If Poles bend it would end like with Czechoslovakia - that give up all that Germany demanded and get eaten anyway.
So it was fight or bend.

Because the main trend in Ukrainian politics since 1991 is to be anti Russian and pro German

>If I meet a Ukrainian worthy of being seated at my table, I must have him shot

Alt-right guys suck Putin's cock and so they shit on Ukraine, while leftist have no sympathy because they're white ex-Communists.

> (formally) highly industrialized, highly strategic area
Ukraine could only be highly industrialized and strategic as a part of a Russia.
The way economy used to work was simple - east produces resources, west produces goods out of said resources. Now Russia is stuck exporting raw materials and Ukraine is stuck without industry.

This so much. Leftists hate them because they are nationalistic though not cuz "white ex-communist"

The truth is that Europe was much more stable during the Cold War.

This

Try again

So is every other European according to Veeky Forums so that doesn't mean much

I struggle to find an explanation for why they are so shit. They have extremely fertile soil, warm water ports (until Russia cucked them out of Crimea), large territory, shitload of coal. Yet every neighboring country looks like Switzerland compared to them.

>daily threat of nuclear holocaust
>domestic terror cells in almost all western countries
>loadsa money poured into the military
ok

I would say oligarchs, but then every former soviet country has the same problem

see

Finland has also always been a peasant nation and they're rich, your explanation is shit.

>daily threat of nuclear holocaust
That is just an abstraction.
>>domestic terror cells in almost all western countries
Still exist. Daily TRUCKINGS by brownskins are the norm.
>loadsa money poured into the military
Still exist.

Finns have higher IQ than Turkic Ukie subhumans.

How are Czechs "Meh" tier Slavs, they are based af

>user in charge of not being retarded

It was how the germans saw them dipshit
Are you implying the krauts were logical (atleast around that time period)?

It's just German autistic hierarchy.

Hohols are Turkic mongrels with no identity. They are stupid, cultureless and ugly people. They are worthless and hopeless for the same reason Amerisharts are. Dugin is right, the locals should be physically removed band replaced with actual Russians. Hohols have amazing farmland and black sea ports and yet they are worse than Moldova, a country with literally nothing.

inb4 Ukie diaspora Amerinigger calls me a Putinbot

Don't you have a PAK FA thread in /k/ to be shitposting in, armatard?

>Dugin is right
Fuck off shitskin

Literal unironic Russian shills. They started popping up soon after the whole revolution there and have ruined any discussion of it ever since.

The general idea is to just bury any meaningful discussion in shitposting until everyone gets tired of it and stops caring. Whenever the topic is something to do with Russia's invasion, they kick up as much information as possible to make it difficult to figure out what the actual truth is and generally just exhaust everyone into apathy.

It's pretty standard Soviet propaganda tactics.

because weak ukraine is in everybody interest in that region

By "White" he means Western Europeans you inbred kike.

Turkish genetic influence

>Russians are not white, we are Eurasian! We need to racemix with the subhuman gooks some more!
>I support niggers and gooks and Turks but whites need to die!
Fuck off you pathetic cuckold.

Bad translation, 56% kike. He is saying Anglos and frogs are cancer and is mocking them by saying actual Africans are better than them.

Pile of shit.

>Bad translation
нe пизди ты хyй тyпoй

Ukrainians are nice. A lot of them seem to be moving southwards to Romania and Bulgaria. Can't imagine how bad a place has to be to think of Romania and Bulgaria as civilization lmao.

Mostly oil

Morrocco has great ports, arable land, and European bribes to keep the blacks away.

Why are the Mongols so smart?

So you cannot be nazi and nationalist?

t. dithmarschen

Ukraine doesnt have a real identity, which makes it difficult to choose a side when the fighting begins.
With exceptional levels of corruption and SIZEABLE RUSSIAN MINORITY (valuable resources and farmland), Ukraine will always be politically outmaneuvered and it's economy will be in a perpetual drunken stagger.
Nobody stands up for it because it can't stand up for itself. Until Ukrainians can come together under a common goal or sense of identity, the nation has no hope. The Crimea incident revealed the nation's true nature, and shows us that hope is forlorn.

Too close to Russia.

They should have just been happy as part of the Russia/Eurasia sphere.

Power vacuum, oligarchs fighting each other, resulting in extreme corruption
Basically Russia in the 90s but Putin never came

Speak English, nigger.

tl;dr Ukraine should just cut off the cancer, give up East Ukraine to the Russians, and race to the EU.

Instead they are going to be the cumslave of the EU and Russia instead of just Russia.

>muh no history
>muh no identity
All of this is correct but not at all related to why they are a shithole. Belgium is also a non-country, so is the USA and Canada and Australia.

Ukraine should be partioned between Russia and Poland/Slovakia.

Would be better for everyone

Romania too.

Except we have autistic civil unity since at least the 1870s.

Ukraine has nothing to unify it except force and fear of Russia. Not even a language.