Buddhism

I always found weird how hippies and liberals claim to like Buddhism. Isn't Buddhism similar to Epicureanism, with a heavy emphasis on asceticism?

Isn't the Buddhism in South Asia the serious one?

>Critical thinking my ass.
of course. people like and have a very cherry picked reading of buddhism specifically tailored for their biases. A better question is: Why do Western fedoras have such an incorrect understanding of buddhism to begin with?
>Because they hear that it doesn't have an explicitly defined and standardized divine hierarchy, so they think "religion with no gods, it's perfect"
what about the hundreds of Bodhisattvas and buddhas whom are worshiped? or the varius reincarnations you can receive?

did you know that to reach "enlightment", women have to be purified through an incarnation as a man?

>Isn't the Buddhism in South Asia the serious one?
Buddhism in South Asia, the little vehicle, is the inferior one. That's about all.

In the many discourses of Buddha contained within where he says to rely on trusting your own judgement, there are many passages that deal with this. I won't hold your hand but with 2 minutes on google you'll be able to find them.

Normies are Christian retard

>In the many discourses of Buddha contained within where he says to rely on trusting your own judgement,
And from THIS you get out of it that Buddhism is all about muh rationalism and critical thinking? What a pathetic joke of understanding.

Not in the West.

>FYI, it's Western tradition (both Christian via aquinas or otherwise) that has the big emphases on

The bible of full of passages that instruct people to have faith , that stress the necessity of faith and ones that say without faith one won't be saved. Aquinas is just christfag sophistry full of circular reasoning.

Buddhism (in terms of Buddha's actual discourses and not later additions made hundreds of years later) has very little of that and has a huge emphasis on critical thought and trusting your own judgment. Buddha explicitly says not to be misled by authority figures or the supposed authority of texts and to just examine things and decide for yourself.

cafeteria and "cultural" christians maybe. Its taboo to be christian here in Sweden.

2.2 billion Christians in the world, you telling me that they're a "minority" in the West? Kek

>And from THIS you get out of it that Buddhism is all about muh rationalism and critical thinking?

It's not ALL ABOUT it but that does play an important role. The whole point of Buddha's teachings is that (as he framed it) he just lays out the path and it's up to other people if they want to follow it or not. An important component of that path is taught to be critical thinking.

>(in terms of Buddha's actual discourses and not later additions made hundreds of years later)
Buddhism's first written text came out hundreds of years after Siddhartha was alive you total pseud.
>has a huge emphasis on critical thought and trusting your own judgment.
Again, bullshit that this has anything to do with critical thought.
>Buddha explicitly says not to be misled by authority figures or the supposed authority of texts and to just examine things and decide for yourself.
The Bible says the same thing if you read it correctly.

>asceticism
Nope. A "middle way" which is something like "don't try to starve, but don't go crazy." The best western comparison might be Seneca's interpretation of stoicism.

You seem to mistaking fedora understanding of critical thinking with actual critical thinking. Any religion, including Christianity, involves critical thinking. "faith alone" was invented invented the 1500s.
>he whole point of Buddha's teachings is that (as he framed it) he just lays out the path and it's up to other people if they want to follow it or not.
What do you think "he who has ears, let him hear it" means? Again, you can dissociate Buddhism's tangible manifestations (while ignoring it's massive amount of irrational components that involve gods, spirits, non-material realms, ect) yet when it comes to Christianity you force it into a cherry picked box of concepts it must center around. You can absolute get a a pro-critical thinking, pro-rationalism reading from the Bible if you look at the right way.

>""""Buddhism""""for dumbies
Just shut up. I bet your idea of a middle way means not changing anything in your life kek.

do you think the female gender, who only thinks of cocks 24/7 can really be enlightened?

I think it has to do with Nirvana. It's the easiest result of nihilistic dread. IIRC it means extinction or 'Blowing out' like a candle. So Buddhists believe in samsara, but would rather cease to reincarnate. If that's not some Last Man style shit, I don't know what is.

It does? In my experience most Atheist no little about Buddhism and do not particularly care.

Generalizing a bit, Buddhism usually changes aesthetics and minor doctrines to conform with a new location, and when Buddhism first came to the west they promoted those elements of the faith most likely to appeal to the west such as emphasizing the value of meditation, and in certain sects the lack of a real pantheon. Essentially the sold it as philosophy with some beneficial practices like meditation.

To expand on this, Buddhist ideas of the Middle way would absolutely still be ascetic by today's lifestyle standards. Buddhism absolutely involves asceticism. "Do what ever you want man, middle way" is some bullshit.

know little*

Do what thou wilt.

Stoicism is ascetic.

Compare a modern liberal with the Stoics.

It's good advice for the affluent. Plus, having the means and not being a glutton is remotely difficult. Case and point: American obesity.

Ok, Alister Crawly. Proof that you're a total memer.

If you've ever asked normies, seculars, and atheists, about particular points in the Tripitaka or the mechanics of Abhidhamma or even the basics of the Mother and Father tantras of tibet, you'd know that Buddhism is not, in fact, appealing to those groups.

>Nope
lol. You only point out the inherent vagueness of the teaching which makes it useless. A "middle way" does indeed imply asceticism. The question becomes "how much is too much" since extremes are relative. What's extreme to you, might not seem extreme to me and vice versa. If you are being accurate, you are looking for an asceticism that's not as extreme as the Brahman priest of Siddharthas lifetime. Since I guarantee even hardcore ascetics of today probably aren't as extreme as the ones in Siddharthas , that's a lot of asceticism you better be doing if you want to be a good buddist.

Actual Chrisitans? Yes I am.
>2.2 billion Christians in the world,
Ok? That's a non-sequitur. Most of the world's pop. isn't in the West .

Stoicism is, but not Seneca. He fasted for periods, but didn't think that asceticism led to enlightenment.
Letter V:
"Avoid shabby attire, long hair, an unkempt beard, an outspoken dislike of silverware, sleeping on the ground and all other misguided forms of self-advertisement... Philosophy calls for simple living, not for dipping penance, and the simple way of life need not be a crude one... it is a great man who can treat his earthenware as if it was silver, and a man who treats his silver as if it was earthenware is no less great."
That's what I meant here Now, plenty of people think Seneca is stoiclite and a hypocrite, but his idea of a simple life seems to best not distract one from intellectual/spiritual pursuits, and is a healthy balance between the extremes of avarice and asceticism, I think. That's why I compared that to the middle way. If the way in the middle is not the middle way, excuse my ignorance, I'm retarded.

>Philosophy calls for simple living

Compare that to weed smoking liberals who think casual sex is a human need.

Love under will.

To be fair all of /r9k/ thinks casual sex is a human need to.

Because they know little about it and their perception has been biased by western media which tends to portray Buddhist monks as wise and good natured.

>I'm to intelligent.

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
Love is the law, love under will.
93/3

>and is a healthy balance between the extremes of avarice and asceticism,
For the record, this does, indeed, include asceticism. Which is something you must consciously strive for. idk why this false notion that non-radical asceticism = no asceticism caught on but don't expect to go far with buddhism, stoicism or anything without it.

Well, we don't think /r9k/ as Buddhas or Stoics.

In my country any devout Christian can expect to be mocked relentlessly. Anyone younger that 40 going to church would be considered quite weird.

Because making the best of what one has (in a family of modest means) seems natural and any ascetic enterprise from that vantage point means outright destitution.

That doesn't answer the question. making the best of what you have, not getting into debt, ect is in itself a type of asceticism.

Because you can't do it wrong and it doesn't deliver anything.

You can do both? Be of modest means and use asceticism to spiritually advance yourself.

Why? Is it because Christians defeated the vikings?

Where do you live, Saudi Arabia?
I live in Canada and the average person in my community is Christian. I was the odd man out with my family being secular.

because zen buddhism especially soto is so simple and easy to understand. it doesnt understand knowledge of scripture or the actual aim of meditation. people just see that meditation has immediate benefits and the way Zen is taught thats all thats required, really

mostly because Buddhism doesn't have a god.

>Buddhism doesn't have a god.
That's because Buddhas are their gods. Ironically enough, buddhist still respect and incorporate gods/benevolent spirits into their theology in a manner unthinkable to Western Fedoras.

pardon me. sorry pardon me what

Buddhists are gods in the same way the pope is the god of Catholicism

More accurate to say that Buddhism finds gods irrelevant. If they exist, they're not qualitatively different than we are and have no greater impact in the grand scheme of things.

So bddhism is just a death cult right? True reational people with critical thinkin adopt a master religion like Islam. As we all knew from the start. Allah is the only way to heaven. Worshiping heathen like Buddha is a path to hell.

ALL religions with an after-life are death cults

Actually the opposite. Any belief WITHOUT an afterlife is a death cult.

No? Not even close.

"Homage to the ancient Dipamkara Buddha.
Homage to Bhaisajya−guru−vaiduryaprabhasa Buddha.
Homage to Sakyamuni Buddha.
Homage to the Buddhas of Past, Present and Future.
Homage to the Pure and Happy Buddha.
Homage to Vairocana Buddha.
Homage to Ramadhvaja−raja Buddha.
Homage to Maitreya Buddha.
Homage to Amitabha Buddha.
Homage to Amitayus Buddha.
Homage to Buddha Who Leads to the Truth.
Homage to the Imperishable Vajra Buddha.
Homage to Ratnaprabhasa Buddha.
Homage to the Nagaraja Buddha.
Homage to the Buddha of Zealous Goodness.
Homage to the Precious Moonlight Buddha.
Homage to the Buddha Free of Stupidity.
Homage to Varuna Buddha.
Homage to Narayana Buddha.
Homage to Punyapuspa Buddha.
Homage to the Buddha of Meritorious Talent.
Homage to the Good Wandering Buddha.
Homage to the Illustrious Candana−punya Buddha
Homage to the Manidhvaja Buddha.
Homage to the Buddha of the Torch of Wisdom.
Homage to the Buddha of Great Virtues.
Homage to the Brilliant Buddha of Great Compassion.
Homage to the Maitribala−raja Buddha.
Homage to the Wise and Good Leader Buddha.
Homage to the Vyuharaja Buddha.
Homage to the Buddha of Golden Splendor.
Homage to the Buddha of Brilliant Talent
Homage to the Buddha of Wisdom.
Homage to the Buddha of the World's Calm Light.
Homage to the Sunlight and Moonlight Buddha.
Homage to the Sunlight and Moonlight Pearl Buddha.
Homage to the Supreme Buddha King of the Banner of Wisdom.
Homage to the Sughosa Buddha.
Homage to the Buddha of the Banner of Unceasing Radiance.
Homage to the Buddha of the World−watching Lamp.
Homage to the Supreme Dhanna King Buddha.
Homage to the Buddha of Sumeru Light.
Homage to the Buddha Prajnabala King.
Homage to the Brilliant Buddha of the Golden sea.
Homage to the Buddha of Universal Light.
Homage to the Buddha of Illustrious Talent.

>there's an awesome place you can go to
>but you have to die first

sounds like death cult to me

Homage to the Buddha of Wisdom.
Homage to the Buddha of the World's Calm Light.
Homage to the Sunlight and Moonlight Buddha.
Homage to the Sunlight and Moonlight Pearl Buddha.
Homage to the Supreme Buddha King of the Banner of Wisdom.
Homage to the Sughosa Buddha.
Homage to the Buddha of the Banner of Unceasing Radiance.
Homage to the Buddha of the World−watching Lamp.
Homage to the Supreme Dhanna King Buddha.
Homage to the Buddha of Sumeru Light.
Homage to the Buddha Prajnabala King.
Homage to the Brilliant Buddha of the Golden sea.
Homage to the Buddha of Universal Light.
Homage to the Buddha of Illustrious Talent.
Homage to Candana−punya Achievement Buddha.
Homage to the Victorious Fighting Buddha.
Homage to the Bodhisattva Guanyin.
Homage to the Bodhisattva Mahasthama.
Homage to the Bodhisattva Manjusri
Homage to the Bodhisattva Samantabhadra.
Homage to the Bodhisattvas of the Ocean of Purity.
Homage to the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas of the Lotus Pool Assembly.
Homage to all the Bodhisattvas of the Utterly Blissful Western Heaven.
Homage to the Three Thousand Protector Bodhisattvas.
Homage to the Five Hundred Arhat Bodhisattvas.
Homage to the Bhiksu, Bhiksuni, Upasaka and Upasaka Bodhisattvas.
Homage to the Bodhisattvas of the Boundless Dharma.
Homage to the Holy Vajra Bodhisattvas.
Homage to the Altar−cleansing Bodhisattva.
Homage to the Golden Arhat Bodhisattva of the Eight Treasures.
Homage to the Bodhisattva Heavenly Dragon of Eight Classes of Being.
Thus it is that all the Buddhas of every world
Are willing with this achievement
To adorn the Pure Land of the Buddha.
Above we can repay the fourfold kindness,
Below we save those suffering in the three paths of life.
Let anyone who sees or hears
Cherish the enlightened mind.
May all be reborn in the Land of Bliss,
To end this present life of retribution.
All the Buddhas of Past, Present and Future in the Ten Regions, all the Bodhisattvas and Mahasattvas,
Maha−prajnaparamita."

You aren't actually dying though. Hence -AfterLIFE.

I was going to say this comment was pure projection but no use in spelling it out.

sounds legit

brb going to the afterlife

Buddhism as a religion (practiced by commoners) is pleb-tier shit, superstition like "do 108 situps in the name of buddha and you will pass the exams at uni"
Buddhism as a philosophy, path to Nirvana (as practiced by monks) is god-tier

The same can easily be said for any organized religion.

>as a philosophy
westerner pleb tier

>as a practice
is god-tier

Buddhist religion offers a critique of the way consciousness works.

Because they've had Buddhism repackaged in a palatable form for them by the likes of Alan Watts, Pema Chodron, et al.

They've never actually lived in a Buddhist culture and therefore don't realize that it's at least as fucked up as Christian cultures are, if not more so.

it is not asceticism compared to the retards who flog themselves until they bleed or who refuse to feed for days and other stupidity

But it is asceticism compared to how modern liberals live.

There's no real deity. It's just about inner peace and tranquility. No rigid rules or dogmatic bullshit, unless you want to be a monk. It bends many different ways too, and a lot of people like the whole meditation thing.

>There are popular revisions of a faith
>Therefore the entire faith is redundant

That's like saying Catholicism is degenerate because Pentecostalism exists faggot

This

Wrong, but it can be said about Western esotericism which has much more in common with Buddhism than any other Western traditions in its apprehension of the divine

>I'm not saying it as anti-Christian
>says something that is anti-christian
Buddhism was used to control the chinks just like any other religion.
Christianity had principles, a doctrine.

because they literally know nothing about it

and also dude ancient chink wisdom lol

>Wrong,
How so? Is sufi islam, for example, not decent?
>Wrong, but it can be said about Western esotericism
Western Esotericism is itself a philosophical counterpart to Christianity. See Boheme. or who taught Evola alchemy. Pro-tip: it was priest.

it is just the next step in the natural modernization of religion. for normie society to function they need to take all the fire and meaning out of any and every religion. they take sacrifice and traditional values out of christianity so that it is just a feel good cult. they take asceticism and life-denial out of buddhism so it is just a feel-good cult and they are trying to the take the warrior poet and strict legalism out of islam and make it into another faceless feel good cult. jews are the biggest example of this, most jews don't even believe in a god anymore they are just secularists who use jewish identity to feel good about themselves and forge a false identity.

>it is just about inner peace and tranquility
Buddhism is so much more than that in a way western buddhists don't care to look into

>Therefore the entire faith is redundant

Where did I ever make such a claim? I merely gave this anecdote as the reason why I have a hard time believing critical thinking is fundamental to the religion. If the majority of major Cathedrals had strippers dancing next to the altar I would see that as a reason to believe Catholocism might be degenerate.

>Mahayana

t. sensitive christian

kek just like:

>The other sects of buddhism are different
no. Ask yourself, if that was the case, why isn't Southeast Asia and Sri Lanka the rationalist, critical thinking utopia treats theravada buddhism as?
The ironic thing is, saying things like
>There's no real deity. It's just about inner peace and tranquility. No rigid rules or dogmatic bullshit,
is true to the extent that you can get reading out of it if you choose to. yet it completely ignores Buddhism tangible manifestations, as well as the practice by most actual Buddhist.

You can get
>It's just about inner peace and tranquility.
just as easily with Christianity. "Come to Me: My Yoke is Easy and My Burden is Light." yet because of hypocrisy and bias you people choose not to. Instead focusing on your (oftentimes incorrect) understanding of Christianity's tangible and popular manifestations. The exact opposite you do with Buddhism.

>Any religion, including Christianity, involves critical thinking. "faith alone" was invented invented the 1500s.
The 1999 Lutheran-Catholic joint declaration was supposed to clear up this misunderstanding

funny how """""""""western buddhists"""""'" never talk about suffering, and karma.

OH and the western idea of karma is a joke.

Because core Buddhism leaves a LOT to interpretation which has led to wide variance between the different sects. From the Mahayana sects that treat Bodhisattvas as quasi deities/saints to intercede on your behalf to the Theravada ones which are more ascetically oriented. Or the mystical Vajrayana schools.
Needless to say this ability to adapt to differing circumstances meant that Western Buddhism is different from what you'd find elsewhere, it tends to emphasize the self-helpesque nature where you bring yourself to enlightenment through meditation, and it's vagary on deities or an afterlife makes it attractive for atheists and secularists because it doesn't compromise their beliefs.
karma (and reincarnation) gets murky even in Asia, especially in Mahayana with the syncreticism with religions that contain an afterlife.
And the emphasis on suffering really doesn't work as well for your average Westerner whose living in the most prosperous region of the word

>Average Western has depression, anxiety, obesity and alienation
>talking about suffering doesn't work
lel

>average
the average is not Veeky Forums
and talking about things that are 1st world problems pretty much proves the point.

Average Western does have those things. Studies prove this. It has nothing to do with Veeky Forums
>mental anguish is 1st world problems
No.

>makes it attractive for atheists and secularists because it doesn't compromise their beliefs.

until you confront them with things like rebirth, or karma.

Didn't the dalai lama call homosexuality selfish lust?

>Average Western does have those things.
not really, and not all of them at once, though the entire combo describes someone here perfectly
>being in such a well off country you have an overabundance of food and the freedom to tune out from society if you find it disgusting
"suffering"
>No.
depression and anxiety are without a doubt 1st world problems, in that anywhere outside of the 1st world that'd be far down the list of important things you need to deal with.
True, they just get reeled in by the ambivalence about any higher power. Though in practice karma is heavily downplayed in western buddhism anyway
IIRC his position is that anything outside of sex for procreation is technically a no no, though that could be changed by calling a conclave to change the doctrine.
keep in mind your average laymen has never even heard of that (assuming it's even in his sects doctrine) and is not really reaching for enlightenment. In East Asia most just pray to Amitahba and hope he'll let them do the hard shit in the pure land after death.

>it has a heavy emphasis on critical thinking and teaches people to examine everything and to rely on their own judgement
That's Western Pop Buddhism.

Tibetan/Mongolian Buddhism is almost literally Caesaropapism, Burmese Buddhism is pretty much Raj-era Hinduism or Wahabism, Indochinese is just another organized religion, and Japanese is dangerously close to paganism.

>Japanese is dangerously close to paganism
they pretty much merged until the Meiji Restoration when the Emperors wanted to really emphasize the Imperial Cult.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinbutsu-shūgō
only the Nichiren autists are semi exempt from this, and they're borderline christfags in their HERETIC hateboner for other buddhist sects let alone other religions.

>mfw the Chinese and the Koreans seem to be the only ones with Buddhist populations that didn't go batshit insane theocracies.