What is the most compelling reasoning that justifies the U.S. action surrounding the creation of the Panama Canal?
What are the counter-arguments to the claims that the U.S. taking of the Panama Canal was unjustified imperialism?
Some explanations that could use elaboration are: the Panamanian people were oppressed by the central government of Bogota, that if the U.S. didn’t take it then some European power would, and that Colombia failed to maintain stability in the region and therefore prompted U.S. action.
William Cooper
> the Panamanian people were oppressed by the central government of Bogota
Not really, how many pro-independence insurrections were? Panama joined Colombia voluntarily in Bolivar times. The panamian provincial elite saw $$$$$ in the channel and played ball
Isaiah Clark
Other powers went Imperial as well, America turned her colonies into States. It was in American interests to create an Empire, so we took the remnant of Spain's. Caribbean hegemony was arguably very important to the US, which played a larger role in getting the Canal Zone. The Panama Canal would not only be a feat for its time and secure large revenue for the US, but it was also strategic in securing quick access to Asia & Hawaii
Ryan Reed
1000 days war?
Adrian Martin
>Justification of the U.S. Taking the Panama Canal >$ Are you that retarded?
Brayden Gutierrez
I asked for justification, not motive.
Easton Rivera
>Without the Panama Canal >American battleships must travel the entire way around South America in order to go from the Atlantic to the Pacific
>With Panama Canal >That same trip takes less than a day
Zachary Ramirez
To clarify what I mean by “justification”, I’m asking how the U.S., a country that supposedly fights for freedom and liberty, can do to Colombia what they did.
For example, Roosevelt said that the leaders of Colombia were incompetent and threatened American interests in Panama by failing to keep peace.
Another example argument is that Colombia would have sold the rights to make a canal to European powers, (for example how they gave the French rights to build a canal) giving Europe power over the Western Hemisphere and thus threatening the liberty and sovereignty that the colonies had only recently achieved from Europe
Luis Adams
Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
American liberty is a national myth. America, like all nation states, does what is best for America. Whatever justification they use is irrelevant in the long run.
Ryan Anderson
America fights for freedom and liberty for its own people. Why should we give a flying fuck about Colombia, especially when they were willing to hand over the Canal Zone to a European power?
William Perez
>America >nation state
Anthony Wood
(checked) America is a nation, faggot. Thanks to "wez all immigruntz n sheeit" propaganda people have forgotten that
Christopher Davis
>a country that supposedly fights for freedom and liberty Not specialist on the topic, but I'm pretty sure that this was the justification: "freedom and liberty". Not saying your thread isn't interesting but imo all wars conducted by USA past civil war had that exact same justification, even though we know it was all about money and power.
Dylan Smith
Moral justifications are always bullshit in international relations. All it does is make its foreign policy decisions more palatable to the domestic population.
Logan King
Yeah it is definitely one of those things calculations wherein per capita seems to over rule alliance. Panama has a long history with the people of the southern US but so does Colombia. Colombia and Venezuela was technically, until modern history a stronghold of the Old British aka Irish. The crap that were kicked out by the Anglo Saxons. Whereas mexico and cuba became Anglo Saxon strongholds. US Brits Panama and Colombia had that amity going. Panama was just an amicable difference. Doesnt mean they couldnt use it for trade themselves. As for the necessity of the Panama cana is mostly due to Naval warfare. Lately Panama has taken a lot of crap because it didnt renovate to US desire and even constructed a low bridge.
Eli Anderson
Actually Colombia was the remnant of the Old Granadine empire. And empire even included the mandate of Columbia. You know what land is that right? They were known for their mining rights. So if your great great grandad was a miner. And a prideful miner at that. He was paying NeuGranadine taxes to mine im the andes. Which is a pretty interesting history. Full of a lot of confusion. Much less talked about than Mexico but more politically celebrated. For example many towns in the state of NY and even new england are named after Neu Granadine provinces & villages. This is in honor of Albany and its history with the Dukes of Alba. Colombia being a land that housed nobility of Alba and last royal dynasty of emirate of Cordoba.
Easton Jackson
Interesting, but second to politics. I was saying "who cares about Colombia" in the context of us having the Canal Zone or not
Parker Perez
>God has to descend from on high and declare the cause holy enough for you to take valuable territory from some useless shithole and put it to better use Faggot
Jeremiah Clark
Why did the US decide to make Panama into a meme "independent" country instead of just annexing them outright?
Julian Jenkins
Because depressing limpdick yankees from Connecticut would've cried about injustice
Jordan Williams
Nope. No single language, no common cultural heritage. Not a nation.
Cameron Kelly
"We want this are we are gonna get it, because we have the military might to get it".
Simple as.
Jaxson Phillips
>No single language, no common cultural heritage
Aaron Powell
Eminent domain: world edition.
We took from savages who don't think beyond the day or care beyond their bellies, and gave something that benefits the entire world to this day.
Justin Thomas
The canal was a geo-strategic imperative and Colombians are complete putz. So Uncle Sam did what he had to do.
Robert Gonzalez
>What are the counter-arguments to the claims that the U.S. taking of the Panama Canal was unjustified imperialism? They built it...?
Justin Wood
Alrighto, the US was interested in getting a canal since the 1850s when they built the railroad here in Panama. At this time, they were competing with Great Britain since they also wanted a canal in the region to get to Asia faster. They signed a bunch of treaties saying about how a future canal must be neutral and imposed a fuck ton of restrictions. This causes both parties to lose interest in the region which lets France to come in and fuck up trying to build the canal.
Fast forward, Colombia goes in the crapper in the Thousand Days's War. Panama is hit fucking hard and the economy goes to shit. After Colombia once again becomes a centralist state, Panama loses its autonomous status that the previous Federal government had granted. This angers the Panamanians.
Once again, the US is looking to build a canal now that Britain's fucked off once they built the Suez Canal and the treaties are repealed by both parties. They go to Colombia where they create a treaty to allow the US to build the canal and allow the Colombians to pass their warships and shit through free of cost (Since it would be their shit in the future). The treaty goes to the Colombian senate, where it's repealed because elections were coming up and no one wanted to look like a chump and give up the rights to build the canal to a bunch of gringos.
So, the US and the Panamanians get upset. The US doesn't get its canal and the Panamanians don't get the monetary benefits of a canal being built in the isthmus. So, Panamanians rebel. Colombia sees this rebellion and needs to send in troops, but oh shit son there's no fucking land route from Colombia to Panama thanks to the Darien Gap, so they have to ship them in. The US comes in with their warships and impede the troops from sailing to Panama, and recognize this government. After the US does its best at gunboat diplomacy, the Colombians cede Panama and the US finally gets its treaty to get the canal.
Tyler Richardson
It dont matter no more. We have advanced air technology. However having the canal gives us greater edge in preparedness in the west. Instead of having to travel around argentina.
Panamanians got mad at US because the US became a beacon for Black politics and expansion. 100 or so years ago black people were only in Caribbean. They started with Haiti into Dominican republic into eastern cuba, into Jamaica, into Bahamas, into...an expansion solely motivated by poverty. Which is a blind spot for human reason and emotion. Not to get into racism. But the areas where they spread to saw it unfair because they too have issues and the immigrating black people increases problem. They have to deal with the Inca situation or the people without homes. Everybody has tried to maintain as family oriented, closed knit, landowning country people. What the US did with Panama was use Black soldiers with dollar salaries as a means to expansion. Black people for the most part Caribbean black people not so much Brazilian black people (two different communities) have hated Native Americans. So Native people get pissed because of the self centeredness around the situation.
It is seen in the drug smuggling world where the courts in the us had to split the problem into cali operation (cali cartel) and medellin operation (medellin cartel). One is handled through predominantely black people and another predominantely indian/mestizo. Who has suffered most bad rep?
Tyler Jones
Today they have north of the valley operation which is technically the heaven operation which is technically a peace treaty between the two. What is seen as screwed up is that Cali is the home of the the miami jew. When the Panama situation hit the fan a whole bunch of people from the pacific region gave up their nationality and left christianity do to several crimes perpetrated by the archdiocese of Buga.
Henry Long
Miami jew is also the queens jew and upperwestside jew and part of the long island jews.
Carter Stewart
basically stating people of certain colors are not supposed to exist in archdiocese and are classified as descendants of polynesians, brazilian escapees, mapuchean revolts (they were the last natives attacked due to mining in 1800s conosur). Because the archdiocese raped so many exslaves and natives that their descendants are technically white. They left no 'colored' people. So all the true descendants of regional slavery are considered white casted. However the descendants have a situation is that they could be inbreeding if they marry within ethnic cluster.
Andrew Long
Via Panama the US led another revolt to stop the mapuche and southern inca tribes traveling north after they found refuge. They helped establish the Choco (crash, stop, some think its abv for chocolate) region via panama which technically is part of old antioquia. to stop the Topa Yupanqui. However it got worse under Noriega that helped the Topa move up. By causing more civil disruption and ultimately causing tens of millions of illegals and refugees enter the US. US was the land that caused it and for it Noriega is considered the Dog of Central America. Many illegals realized if they brought a kilo or two they would have money to stabilize a bit. So it helped them out.
Isaac Ross
The worst shit that happened with the thousand days war was that we got our worst president. Marroquin, at the end of his government said: >You gave me one country and i ended up with two That guy was one the biggest idiots to be president, easily one of the worst presidents in the history of the americas.
