Irene of Athens

Was she a good ruler, Veeky Forums? Was she effective? Was she qt?

I've listened to two different sources about her, and they seem to contradict each other. One was Lost to the West by Lars Brownsworth, where she was depicted as somewhat of a disaster IIRC, where he listed blinding her own son and trying to marry Charlemagne among some of her actions, which angered her subjects.

My other source was the Late Antiquity lecture by Professor Thomas F. X. Noble, who made her out as an extremely effective ruler who made the best out of the bad situation she was put in. According to his reading of her rule, she quelled iconoclasm (somewhat) peacefully with the second Council of Nicaea (and rusing the soldiers loyal to Leo IV when they tried to break it up), had victories against the Slavs and Arabs, and generally held the Byzantines together and kept her idiot son in check.

I guess I should just listen to more sources to get a more complete picture, but I wanted to know if anyone here had an opinion on her.

Why is she portrayed as cracker?

YOU MEAN "IRENE OF KHAZARIA", NOT "IRENE OF ATHENS".

I'd say she was more good than bad. Blinding her own son was cruel and reprehensible to our modern sensibilities but it made sense politically to secure her own position. A marriage to Charlemagne may have pissed off some snobby Orthodox Greeks but again it made sense politically; imagine the sheer military and political might of a union between the Frankish Empire and the Roman Empire; this legit would have restored Rome to its former glory, and helped fix the divide between the Christian churches.

She was generally a good administrator and wasn't a fanatic on any issues, and indeed defended the borders against the Muslims. She was a good ruler, but I wouldn't say a great one. She did everything well but not much exceptionally (though nowadays even a mediocre female ruler is elevated to greatness solely because of her sex).

>blinding your own son
That's so fucked up it's not even "down to sensibilites of age". Even her contemporaries saw it as something horrific.
A mother killing her own child is beyond psychopathic. So fuck her accomplishments. Inhumane cunt.

>be a good ruler
>lose your country and get hanged, quartered, and burnt alive in front of her court and family by her son
>son recovers from blindness
she deserves the pits of hell for her evil and her stupidity of thinking catholics would ever help her in exchange for her used-up vagina

This
Not these

why would an emperor want her? Shes a used-up slut who butchers her own family.

They saw it as horrific because she was a woman, and thus held to a different standard. Blinding and castrating your own unwanted sons and brothers was standard practice for the Byzzies, it was done because they had a prohibition against cripples becoming Emperor.

>They saw it as horrific because she was a woman,
t. retard

>HURR

She was born in Athens????????????

She's a used up slut in charge of the of the most prestigious state in Europe.

Must be nice to be honoured as a good ruler by women and nu-males despite mutilating your own children, then again every whore is now removing their unwanted child before birth so maybe she wasn't so bad in the end.

>this is considered a Saint in the "based" orthodox church

You think he missed out on anything? After the dude bribed her son to murder her?

No she's not.
And by the way, her son was a cruel incompetent retard.

>secure her position

She neglected to even attempt to set her son up with the administrative knowledge to rule and left the empire without a proper successor. You are a bad ruler of you neglect succession.

Read Haldon & Brubaker. Ignore Brownsworth like the plague.

How is she considered a saint, retard? It's doesn't work like the Cucktholic ""church"" where every faggot is a saint. The Orthodox church has standards.

Shut the fuck up you fucking retarded gypsy.

She was alright and I guess gets credit for being officially recognized as actual ruler instead of de facto. In terms of Byzantine empresses though she has absolutely nothing on Pulcheria.

True. The women of the house of theodosius are pretty underrated compared to Theodora, Theophano, Zoe, etc.

It's pretty amazing considering how bad the men (including Theodosius I) were.

>Emperors marry for love
You are so foolish. That's what concubines are for.

Even the sensibilities at the time held that blinding your son is cruel and reprehensible