Why is the population of most Eastern European countries so small (Bulgaria 7 mil, Serbia 7 mil, Greece 10 mil...

they had even less people when they were 'very influential'

east europe is more sparsely populated than west europe and theres a hundred complex reasons from politics to geography as to how come and why, capitalism has as much to do with it as communism as feudalism as mongols etc... a lot of it has to do with austrian, russian and ottoman empires, but you might as well go all the way back to the crusades and before

>turkey became a member of NATO in 1952
That doesn't mean anything besides that Turkey joined an alliance which any country which can join so long as it geographically falls within the vaguely defined "North Atlantic."It isn't called the "Western Treaty Organization." for a reason.

it is largely underpopulated today because the demographics have been steadily going to shit since before WW1 and theres been a lot of migration to urban centres and further economic emigration into central and western eu and usa, whole swats of rural regions are going trough exodus as we type this, but this has been going on in pulses for a couple centuries now so thats part of why its all so sparsely populated

>Austria is Eastern Europe
>Turkey is western
Remember to sage & hide everyone

a better question is: why does bongland have nearly as many people as France, despite being only 1/3 the size, and an island?

In countries like Serbia or ex Yugoslavian states, the war fucked up the demographic. (9mil-7mil in one year)
But, More Economic prosperity=More population

britain population: 65.4 million, vs. France: 66.9 million
britain area: 93,000 mi^2
france: 248,573 mi2

Historically rougher living conditions, most of these peoples were subjects of more or less repressive masters for a while, generally after near constant warfare for centuries. More recently, world wars, genocide and communism certainly didn’t help. A lot of migration in the last few centuries to Western Europe and the New World didn’t help either. As for the Balkans in particular, most of it is not suited for large populations, being a very mountainous region.

because they used to rule the world at some point

Because France suffered wars and low birthrates since 1870

Not importing 3rd worlders.

1700. France should have a huge population but does not.

The Atlantic current warms up Western Europe, making it a better habitat for large populations

We don't have muslims who multiply like rabbits

B/c nobody wants to live in those shitholes.

>As for the Balkans in particular, most of it is not suited for large populations, being a very mountainous region.

True, but balkans has went through a lot of wars aswell, especially wars among themselves because of multi-ethnically turmoil.

What is there to do in a shithole like Britain except fucking and drinking?

French population stabilised and even stagnated for decades at some points and it’s been one of the big worries of French authorities since then. Medals for mothers of numerous children were even created. Also they kept getting into massive wars. WW1 alone you have a generation of young men that got fucked up.

There was post-WW2 boom, because of peace, economic prosperity and social programs. But now with culture changes the population is starting to stagnate again.

Turkey is westernized. If you take a moment and actually read a book or two instead of looking at /pol memes all day you may learn something.

Invasions, raids, infighting, serious lack of trade and therefore economic prosperity, constant emigration, and essentially becoming a battleground every 20 years for the last 500 years of history.
It sucks that the Turks recovered but the Balkans never did.

War

>Bulgaria 7 mil, Serbia 7 mil, Greece 10 mil, Romania 20 mil, Hungary 12 mil, Czech Republic 10 mil, Slovakia 5 mil, Austria 9 mil, Albania 3 mil, etc.

The Czech Republic has a higher population density than France and most of the other countries aren't far behind.

England had insane population growth in the 19th century driven by Irish immigration to the island, effective agriculture and international/colonial food trade. It's population quadrupled from 1811 to 1911. Meanwhile, the French population grew from 29 millon in 1806 to 39 million in 1910.

Czech population was higher in 1930 than it is currently. But yes, the areas that made up the old Habsburg Empire tend to have been relatively densely populated aside from Transylvania, Bosnia and parts of Croatia. Not as densely as Western Europe, but densely nonetheless. Their population growth compared to West Europe in 1940s and 1950s was miserable though.

I can't say I've read any books about (modern day) Turkey, but I've been there, and ... eh. Istanbul is western-ish (bearing in mind that "first world" and "westernized" are not the same thing), but it's superficial; below the surface things still feel fairly alien, same as with most of the other large Asian cities that have been greatly exposed to western technology and media but didn't at all take part in the cultural tradition that produced them. (Yes, I know only half of Istanbul is Asian, leave me alone.) Try watching Turkish TV in your hotel room if you don't believe me; their comedy in particular is really odd (and unfunny) to a western mindset. It's really mean-spirited, but not like e.g. British comedy, which has an edge to it, but in a very different way. It's hard to put into words.

I haven't been outside Istanbul but color me skeptical that the bulk of the country is westernized at all. Definitely not in comparison to practically any part of Eastern Europe.

Then the Balkans are also not western by what youre saying.

Why exactly does Napoli have a fuckoff huge population? What exactly do they have that other cities don't?

I read somewhere that the population of France, if it maintained it's growth from the 17th century onwards, 'should' have a population of 300 million today. I'm not sure if that included immigration but regardless, it's insane the extent to which the French just stopped having children.

>higher in 1930
Bullshit.

>Why is the population of most Eastern European countries so small
because the ones with population under 15 million are actually small countries by area
>Ukraine and Russia still have very sizable populations
>largest country on earth population smaller than Pakistan
>2nd largest country in Europe, population smaller than Britain
LMAO

?

>Czech population was higher in 1930 than it is currently
that's gonna happen when you deport 600,000 Germans, and later split in two and lose 5 million Slovaks

It's cause the Germs got expelled after WW2.

...

>why don't somewhat-western countries like Russia breed like populous Muslim states which quadruple their population every 50 years
gee user you tell me

...

>and later split in two and lose 5 million Slovaks

Nah, even just the Czech part was more densely populated.

Although I guess these days it's about the same.

>what is racial cleaning after the WW2

>racial cleaning
>Czechs never shut the fuck up about being Germans with slavic language

It's the Austrians who call them that. The irony being that Austrians are actually germanized Slavs.

>>Czechs never shut the fuck up about being Germans with slavic language

>implying literally anyone thinks that here
>implying there arent just Celtic LARPers in Prague and Plzeň that think saying Czechs are Slavs is propagation of communism and Putin

That was also the case for turkey though and its population quadrupeld in a century.

...

unironically this, the reason why the English left their shit island and colonized half of the world is the three Ws.
The wine, the women, and the weather.
Literally no reason to stay in England, and nothing to do but fuck while there.

Turkey is fairly westernized for middle East. That was Atatürk'e whole schtick

Zeman seems to be cozy with Russians, are people screeching about it?

>Turkey is fairly westernized
>for middle East.
So it's nothing?

t.wannabe Western Asiatic
This. Turkey is the quintessential Asiatic culture in all respects.

Speaking as an inhabitant of this peninsula, the Balkans have never really been westernized. The corruption problem most countries have is deeply rooted in the mindset of the people at least from the Ottoman invasion. Thanks to the internet and globalization in general, the process of westernization is only starting with the generation born near the changes of the late 80s, but it will take some time.

look at the size of the countries you fucking idiot, you could fit like 4 bulgarias into ukraine, and russia spans 2 "continents" jesus christ how stupid can you be

Yes, and since he died Turkey has been turning back from that, still to this day

Commonwealth/Empire. We have people who immigrate from Jamaica, India is a big one etc. I like these guys, can't stand Muslims most of the time. Some are okay.

(((Communist genocides you dont know about)))

That's simply because of a size of the countries. Also the Slavs are as a whole more numerous in Europe than Germanic and Romance people combined.

>E.Europe and Scandinavia are ideal population sizes, enough for large cities and civilization but not so large to create massive sprawling cluster fucks
>what is Ukraine

Ottoman empire brought stagnation to the whole area, and population growth slowed down. Also, if we add these areas to the size of Germany or France, like if we count all of the old Kingdom of Hungary (Hungary: 10 million, Transylvania: 7 million, Slovakia:5 million, Croatia: 7 million, Vojvodina and SucCarphatia 3 million,) thats above 30 million, which is still not the best, but if we view the size of the areas its not that much depopulated.

I think population size of countries need to be put into context. India for example is a country of over 1 billion people, however keep in mind there is not ethnic group in India that makes up the majority. If Europe was poor, brown and united as one country then it would be as ethnically and linguistically diverse as India. The different states in India are comparable in size and population to European countries. For whatever reason India has been able to remain a single country, so some countries may seem underpopulated but it may just be your perception.

> Slavic intelligence

> sends man into space
> does not use hundreds of nazi engineers to do it

Considering the Ukrainian soil fertility they should have a population of 1 billion

Without WW2 Poland probably would have somewhere around 50 mln people

We are very divisive, we love fighting amongst each other. If possible we would divide even further.

Hell, I'm Bulgarian. In the last 100 years Macedonia (lel) seceded for no real reason but our own divisiveness. Few people know this, but one of our regions, Razgrad, randomly decided to form its own republic one day for no fucking reason.

And now there's people talking about independence in random northwest regions, again for NO FUCKING REASON. We still divide ourselves on capital people and provincial people. One team's fans and another sports team's fans. One political party and another. One wing of a political party and another. We are suspicious and downright hostile to our neighbor very often.

This has been the case since the dawn of time - people around these lands have always fought each other, a lot. It's why our golden ages never really led to much - we Bulgarians were huge many times, but our empire kept dividing itself, dividing itself further and further.

Russia and Ukraine are more a case of survival, across those vast territories of nothingness you NEED a big state to somehow survive.

Population over the area is pretty fucking high still. United balkans would number about 40 mil at decent population density. Expanded to Romania (geopolitical ally) we'd be up to 60. We just sometimes forget how big we are because we're utterly divisive.

Balkans are a pre-modern tribal society that adopted nationalism and then reverted back into tribalism.

We're not "westernizing" we never are and never will be. We've been the Balkans since forever and if one can argue about a development ever occuring, it was "mediterraneanizing".

The only things we are adopting from the west is a very extreme form of capitalism, which if you examine history we've had since long before anyone though up capitalism.

There's good and bad parts of "western" mentality. I'd much rather avoid the bad parts, I'm not so keen on shitting up my country's history, identity and safety for some momentary economic gains.

>a better question is: why does bongland have nearly as many people as France, despite being only 1/3 the size, and an island?
Wars. France had the strongest military in Europe and fought all the time constantly killing off its male population. It began with the wars of Louis XIV in the 17th century, then there were many more including the extremely costly Seven Years war, then came the French Revolution and the Napoleonic wars, which killed miliions of men and stunted the population growth for good.

retard, the population boomed during communism, look up population density

central europe is actually pretty fucking full