After 12 years of lifting trying dozens of different routines...

All of your examples assume that someone is stuck doing one form of exercise or having to lift the same amount.

That's wrong. And you trying to frame it that way is stupid.

You can just work harder on one part of your body and work LESS on the other part of your body to compensate WHILE STILL DOING A FULL BODY WORKOUT.

After 12 years of lifting trying dozens of different routines, listening to every argument and opinion and trying everything for myself. I have come to the following conclusions.

Best way to train = High frequency upper body and SCOOPS CMOBN

what exactly is high frequency full body? push ups at the speed of sound?

Explain this logic, of your bodyworkouts.

Because when you do full a body workout you tend to fatigue as many muscle groups as possible in one go. But, you forget that you need time to rest and for all that muscle to repair itself. Or it'll just cannibalize to rid of the damaged tissue. So when doing constant bodyworkouts then still having to go about your normal day life and using the muscles you're "over training" in certain groups which can cause injury and cause the body to just get rid of the damaged tissue.

For the first 5 years = assorted brosplit routines
For the following 5 years = assorted PPL and U/L routines

For the last 2 years = purely full body routines

I just aim for 10 sets per week for every lift.

M/W/F.

Main lifts (I always do these 5 lifts)

Squats 3x5-10 (once I can do 3x10, I increase weight, with a minimum rep range of 5 per set)
Deadlift 3x3 (once I can do 3x3, I increase weight)
Bench 3x5-10 (same progression method as squats)
Weighted Chin-ups 50+ reps (once I can hit 50 reps in 3-4 sets, increase weight)
Push-Press 3x5-10 (same progression method as squats)

Secondary lifts (Optional)
Hammer Curls 3x10+
Calf Raises 3x10+
Lat Raises 3x15+

instead of posting a pic of someone who worked out the same volume as someone who works out 6 days a week, will you please post a picture of YOUR body
>inb4 you dont post pic and call me wrong, reeves worked out full body for hours and hours that volume= 1 hour 5-6 days a week

THERE'S NO VALIDITY TO A SEMANTIC ARGUMENT WITHOUT DATA - I HOPE YOU FUCKING RATIONAL WIKI FAGS COME TO UNDERSTAND THIS SOON

X->Y->Z IS FOR A SIMPLE WELL VALIDATED MODEL

PHYSIOLOGY AND MEDICINE ARE NOT SUCH SYSTEMS

How many WORKING SETS of bench press or squats do people do per week on a bro-split?

How many of those WORKING SETS are people actually not seeing diminishing returns from?

This is why Full Body is superior.

Why doesn't the body cannabalize the legs if you do multiple exercises that directly and indirectly target the lower body?

You can do a full body workout 3 days a week. It will take a fuckload more then a 2 hour full body workout MWF for your body to start to cannabalize itself.

And you'd have to not rest at fucking all, eat shit, and workout nonstop for days on end and have horrible test levels for that to occur.

People who work on one part of the body are trying to maximize recovery so they can hit it again just as hard and increase their strength or mass gains. It's simple it's convenient and it won't leave you wrecked.

HOWEVER the gains from doing a dedicated full body workout 3 times a week and getting good rest and good nutrtion are amazing and well documented.

Thats if you live a fairly sedentary to maybe a light duty lifestyle. But if you d9 anything that requires you to use your body. You will start to see an asymmetry in the development over time. The only way to prevent this from happening is to speed up the recovery time. Or use anabolic steroids.

I started lifting a month ago. I'm extremely overweight and have been doing SS routine without GOMAD. I haven't been watching my eating as well as I should have though. I plan on starting a strict meal prep routine and going on a 800+ calorie deficit to shed the fat. My goal is to become healthy and strong. Sculpting my body past removing all the fat can come later. At what point would it be optimal for one to adopt a routine such as yours?

DON'T DO IT
THE WORST THING YOU COULD DO FOR YOUR GAINS AND YOUR AESTHETICS IS TO LOSE FAT QUICKLY. YOUR SKIN MAY NEVER COME BACK, AND THE LOSS OF WEIGHT WILL NEGATIVELY IMPACT YOUR GAINS (EXTRA WEIGHT ALL DAY EVERY DAY LIFTING; MORE ER-PRESSURE/CALORIC ON YOUR ANABOLIC PATHWAYS, WHICH MEANS MORE POTENTIAL FOR GAIN-TIME).

THINK OF IT THIS WAY, THE MORE TIME YOUR BODY BELIEVES IT HAS EXCESS ( POST-WORK OUT CALORY DEFICIENT RUN ON THE ADIPOSE TISSUE CALORIE BANKS ) THE MORE TIME IT BELIEVES IT CAN FOCUS ON GROWTH ( ANABOLIC, OR NON-PROTEIN SCUTTLING PATHWAYS ).

YOUR BODY IS EXCESSIVELY EFFICIENT WITH PROTEIN, AND MAINTENANCE IS RELATIVELY EASY DESPITE THE MANY MYTHS ABOUT IT. THE DIFFICULTY IS NATTY GROWTH.

THE CAPS MAKE IT MORE TRUER

He is right though, user. Don't be greedy and try to undo a decade of damage in a month; you won't get as much for aesthetics as you think, and you'll do damage on top of it.

Get a sustainable program and follow it. Think long-term, stick to those goals.

Okay so don't try to lose as much fat as possible in the quickest time possible. I knew about the excess skin but I assumed it was something that could just be taken care of by surgery. I had no idea about any of the additional stuff you said.

Should I just continue SS without the GOMAD with some meal prep at around what kind of deficit? ~500 calories? I was thinking of increasing the amount of reps I do right now in my routine until I hit 15 or so reps per set before I add on more weight. I also want to start couch to 5k after I lose enough weight to not damage my joints. In the meantime I'll be doing elliptical, increasing my time by a minute every workout until I'll maintain at 30 or so mins.
Focus on high protein, low fat, low carb meals? I can't say I have a adequate grasp on the whole macro nutrient aspect of the meal planning just yet. Could I essentially do all this eating the same simple food every week? I don't care about it being delicious, just not disgusting.

I'm going to be taking some memory supplements, fish oil, b12 complex, and have been thinking of purchasing some protein powder of some sort. Anything you might recommend?

I really appreciate the response bro. In this past month I've happier than I've been in years. The progress isn't even noticeable but after every gym session knowing that I'm finally changing my life after so many years, it's exhilarating. It's given me a lot of the drive for life I had when I was a younger kid.

I hope this doesn't sound too stupid but my goal body would be that which was most aesthetically pleasing for my frame while also being optimal for survival.

When I say survival I mean like having the endurance and strength that if I ever would have to run through wilderness and away from dangerous areas while traversing whatever natural or man made obstacles are in my way.

Having both the stamina and strength which would eventually be supplemented by training to be able to defend myself in a physical combat situation. Having the physical ability required to slip out of a riptide.

REPS DON'T FACTOR INTO GROWTH AT ALL UNTIL YOU'RE HITTING STRONG-CAPPED (MONTH LONG) PR'S

GO TILL FAIL IN YOUR SETS, OR PYRAMID AND FOCUS ON FORM TO TRY TO QUICKLY FIND WEAK EXTENDORS/STABILIZERS

IF YOU ARE AWARE OF WEAKNESS FROM THE BEGINNING YOU WILL BE MORE CAREFUL IN YOUR GROWTH - AS YOU ARE FAT YOU ARE MORE PRONE TO INJURY, AND WILL RECOVER SLOWER

SUPS: CREATINE MONO, ALCAR, NAD+, (RE: OMEGA: FISH TWICE A WEEK IS SUFFICIENT), CO-Q, GLUTAMINE, CAFFEINE CONTROL

RE: MEAL PLANNING
IT IS UP TO YOU. AS YOU WILL ALWAYS BE IN CALORIE SURPLUS POST-EXERCISE YOU CAN ESSENTIALLY EAT WHAT YOU WANT PROVIDED IT IS FOOD ( NOT PROCESSED GARBAGE )

IF YOU SMELL SOMETHING YOU LIKE ABOUT TOWN LEARN TO MAKE IT; SOURCE THE INGREDIENTS YOURSELF EVEN IF YOU DON'T GET THE MOST AUTHENTIC DISH ( REPLACEMENTS ETC ) AND YOU WILL DESIRE THE FOOD MORE, AND FEEL BETTER HAVING FOLLOWED THROUGH LONG-TERM ON A IMPULSE

HAVING A FORAGE TO BASKET MENTALITY WILL HELP YOU CONTROL YOUR FOOD INTAKE; APPRECIATION FOR THE PLANNING, AND CONSCIOUSLY REJECTING/REDIRECTING IMPULSES IS SUFFICIENT RE: CALORIE RESTRICTION

I WOULDN'T WORRY TOO MUCH ABOUT CALORIE COUNTING, UNLESS YOU FIND YOURSELF SHAKEY AND FEELING FAINT AT THE GYM OFTEN - THEN YOU NEED TO START COUNTING AND BE SURE THAT YOU ARE GETTING CLOSE TO TDEE.

RE: RIPTIDE
THAT IS AN AWESOME GOAL
IF YOU LIKE SWIMMING IT IS GOOD CARDIO

ENJOY WHAT YOU DO AND TAKE PRIDE IT FOLLOWING THROUGH.

RE: REGIME
THIS IS HIGHLY IRRELEVANT, BUT ACTS AS A NICE MENTAL GERDER TO HELP ENGAGE IN THE HABIT OF LIFTING, RECORDING YOUR WEIGHT, AND MONITORING STALLS/ASYMMETRIES.

ONCE YOU ARE MORE FAMILIAR WITH THE MOTIONS OF YOUR BODY, AND ITS MUSCLES YOU WILL BE ABLE TO SEE WHERE YOU ARE LACKING.

TRUST HOW YOU FEEL.

bump for this
I'm intrigued

Thank you friend. I appreciate your advice.

But..you see...that's fucking stupid.
And worse, you don't know why what you're saying is fucking stupid.

You can do a full body workout and choose how hard you hit each body part. You can choose what exercises you do. You can build your body strength endurance etc any way you want.

I honestly don't understand how you can sit there and say that while giving a complete pass to babbys first powerlifting programs in the sticky and are shilled around here endlessly.

I don't get it. Do you not know why that's stupid?

Powerlifter here. Always trained full body. Never do isolation. For now running Sheiko

I read so much bullshit in here about how training works. For every goal full body is superior to any other way of training.

Is this really all you need for a full body work out?

More than enough. Training isnt that complex,
Stick to the basic excersises,
Do enough volume on them ie 24-40 working reps splitted over a minimum of 5 sets.
Have some way of progrssive overloading over the course of months.

lol no

full body, moderately heavy, and high frequency is the superior way for a natural lifter to train.

Post body OP.

This is a pretty meh routine.

24-40 reps per 5 sets, that's like 5 to 8 reps per set?

And essentially that's pretty much Starting Strength with some accessories added in, yeah?

What do you mean by progressive overloading exactly?

I'm experiementing with this, I'm starting the high variation beginner program outlined in the Greg Nuckols download "the journey" Low volume moderate intensity and 4x a week frequency for upper and lower body push/pull sounds crazy but I'm excited

POst stats and routine? Mirin

Yeah, no.

You're a fucking moron if you think that goals and situation don't effect the way someone should train.

To take just one example, a powerlifter or strongman can't train like that a lot of the time. Why? They have to prep for competition and that entails high intensities with reduced volume unless they want to go into the meet fatigued and out of the groove.

Mirin.
Bodyweightfag here.
Never do isolations either but i do a lot of accessories.
I believe accessories are necessary for a good physique but isolations are a waste of time imo.

IF you don't self regulate yourself at all I guess, unilateral movements and small shifts involume between body parts is all you need to fix those issues

I compete in powerlifting, I never do anything besides full body.

The only time a body part split is useful is when you're /fraud/

What do you mean by high frequency? High reps or lifting 5-6 days?

At what point did I mention a bodypart split?

You have to adapt your training to your goals. Full body works in a lot of situations, but limiting yourself to a specific frequency/workload/intensity is a damned stupid idea. You know as well as any competitive lifter how badly your meet would go if you went straight from a volume block into the meet without backing down or peaking.

Sheiko 37 then 31, add 5kg to maxes and repeat.
1.91m 97 kg about 10%
I do some extra accessory for back. Next to the accessory in the program

He means that you need to go to the gym often.

This is my routine which over time has been tweaked and adjusted to what works best for me.
Rest day is after Legs B.

Push A

Flat Barbell Bench Press: 5x3, 1xF (20% less weight)
Seated OHP: 3x8
Decline Barbell Bench Press: 3x10
Standing Cable Flyes: 5x10
Tricep Extension: 5x10
Dumbell Lateral Raises: 5x10

Pull A

Barbell Conventional Deadlift: 5x3, 1xF (20% less weight)
Weighted Chin-ups: 3x8
Chest Supported Rows: 3x10
T-Bar Rows: 5x10
Dumbell Shrugs: 5x10
Barbell Curls: 5x10

Legs A

Barbell Back Squat: 5x3, 1xF (20% less weight)
Barbell Good Mornings: 3x8
Leg Press: 3x10
Leg Extension: 5x10
Lying Leg Curl: 5x10
Standing Calf Raise: 5x10
Weighted Crunches: 5x10

Push B

Standing OHP: 5x3, 1xF (20% less weight)
Dumbell Incline Bench Press: 3x8
Close Grip Bench Press: 3x10
Seated Machine Flyes: 5x10
V-bar or Straight bar Tricep Pushdowns: 5x10
Cable Lateral Raises: 5x10

Pull B

Barbell Snatch Grip Deadlift: 5x3, 1xF (20% less weight)
Barbell Rows: 3x8
Weighted Pull-ups: 3x10
Dumbell Rows: 5x10
Dumbell Curls: 5x10
Reverse Dumbell Flyes: 5x10

Legs B

Barbell Front Squat: 5x3, 1xF (20% less weight)
Barbell Romanian Deadlift: 3x8
Barbell Hip Thrusts: 3x10
Dumbell Lunges: 5x10
Leg Extension: 5x10
Seated Calf Raise: 5x10
Hanging Leg Raise: 5x10

Hanging leg raise -2x15
Clean and Press -2x7
Squat -3x5
Barbell Calf Raise 3x15
Close Grip Bench 2x7
Standard Deadlift 3x3
Quad Leg Extensions 3x15
Weighted Chins 3x5
HLR 2x15
Weighted crunches literally whenever possible, at work, lunch, etc.

I dont stretch and I dont warm up. If you are patient, initially, your test will go up and you will recover fast. Every lift is weighted progression, and consistent progress is made. HLR is just as important as deadlift. Chins are dropped when legs lag. If you do this without missing a day for a year you will 1) make damn solid gains and 2) be able to take 8 day breaks without loss in strength. Try it for your winter bulk if you don't believe me and are afraid of the recovery. I have a very compromised body as far as disease and sickness goes, so I think you healthy cunts will reap the fucking harvest. Try it.

Same here brah took 20 years for me. Although I was dabbling 14 years deep but going to the gym 3 hours 45 minutes was brutal. Right now I go 2 hours twice a week.

>but to do full body stuff constantly would cause you to have asymmetrical muscle development

Prime example why you should never listen to Veeky Forums

I did brosplits for about 3 years. Wanted to cut one year so I googled some cutting workouts and I came across this full body routine. Tried it out, and I made the best strength and mass gains I ever made, even while on a significant calorie deficit. I haven't looked back since.

muscleandstrength.com/workouts/muscle-strength-full-body-workout-routine

Thoughts on this routine? Looks more thought out than other full body ones I've seen

im a pretty noob lifter, just lifting for a year
i did full body routine (compound lifts first, bench, squat, dl, and then accessory work after) for the first 9-10 months

im now doing PPL, been doing it for about 2-3 months and i feel like ive made most of my aesthetic gains doing PPL

im a natty lifter
should i keep doing PPL (i enjoy PPL and, to me, seem to be seeing better results from this) or should i switch back to full body?

my full body routine was bench 5x5, squat 5x5, dl 3x8, and then a lot of accessory work such as pullups, ez bar curls, chest flies, incline dumbbell curl, dumbbell row, that barbell row where its between your legs, dips, and then some ab work