Christians say the dark ages weren't a thing at all and everything got better during the supposed "dark ages"
Some Other people say the dark ages were a thing and that things got worse in many ways during that time period
WHO IS RIGHT WHO AHOULD I BELIEVE
Historians, who say it was a complex fucking time that can't simply be reduced to "better" or "worse"
You're supposed to read at least five books on the subject and make up your own opinion
What if I read the wrong five books?
Well that's what Veeky Forums is for. When in doubt, come here and ask "what books should I read on X subject?"
But what if I'm not currently interested in that period of history enough to warrant reading multiple books about it.
Then don't . . .? Nobody's forcing you to, just saying that if you do have an interest, don't ask other people what they think, do the research yourself.
Not him, but what are some good books to start reading for the Medieval period? Ideally something to make it interesting. I've read countless books on ancient history and Late Antiquity, but as soon as I have to hear about Anglos and Germans setting up shitty little kingdoms I just lose all interest. Seems like such a step down.
There was a dark ages.
It's just that it didn't took the entire medieval ages.
Why? How about you don't tell other people what to do and then I might think about not asking people what I should think
Yes, other places just pretend that their civilization is still the same one from thousands of years ago cough cough China cough cough
the fact that most of the inventions of the middle age were already made by people like the Ancient Greeks, Romans etc. tells volumes
Such as
>everybody is in a end of time sect now
>society is reduced to tribal levels
>scientific output has come to a total standstill
>many important technologies was lost
>literacy dropped to an all time low
>knowledge and scripture got monopolized by end time sect, everybody that speaks against it, risks getting burned alive
sounds like a great time.
Fuck off there are no rules
>>many important technologies was lost
Such as?
or example most glass making, concrete, water powered metallurgy, most techniques in architecture and sanitation, road construction and many more things. They literally dropped from high culture to mad max level society.
Dark Ages are a meme, science and technology was still progressing, along with philosophy, theology, etc. Also a reminder that the Renaissance was the culmination of the entire middle age, kicked off by the fall of Constantinople
>most glass making
There are glass artifacts from the 8th century. The earliest stained glass window fragments we have are from the 10th century.
All the architecture examples are moot. There was no organization on a scale large enough to warrant a highway system like Romes, nor an aqueduct system. You don't need 1000-mile roads when the biggest realm is ~100-miles across at most.
>science and technology was still progressing,
Yes, there was so much technological progress 500-1000 AD. Such as...
>fuck it there wasn't any progress.
>kicked off by the fall of Constantinople
The fall of Constantinople had nothing to do with the Renaissance in norhtern ITaly.
Yes, shards of roman glass remelted into some cups. Wow, what an achievement. Even by 1400 glass quality didn't match the ones of the Romans 1200 years before and it still was an expensive luxury item, resulting in Europeans having no glass windows for a millennium.
was meant for
The earliest iron horseshoes date back to around 900AD.
no, thats the earliest nailed iron horseshoes, iron horseshoes where common before, so was nailed ones, but mostly made of bronze. Earliest bronze nailed horse shoes date to 400 BC.
Pretty much all civil administration ceased to exist, same for all science, and basically everything else were writing is needed. Like literacy dropped to under 2% and most of those guys would only read/write the bible and little esle.
It is called the Dark Ages primarily due to the absence and destruction of the Western Roman Empire. Europeans and European nations were competing to survive the grim climate and fertility of that time, and the Saracen Invaders were also one of many other threats due to the lack of order in Europe.
Essentially, it is the time where there was no main power or arbiter of order in Europe, so those 600 odd years (400-1000) were recovering and defining years in history that determined which people would be the next great power in Europe, those becoming to be the Franks, Leon, and England to name a few.
The name might also come from a bias from British historians due to the fact that England was getting absolutely fucked by Danes in that time period.
But yes it was arguably the harshest time to be in Europe, but it can be exaggerated and overstated sometimes. Visigothic Spain seemed pretty comfy.
I seriously hope you didn't write that post with the aid of spectacles.
You mean like something based on 10th century Arab mathematics and invented at the dawn of the Renaissance when that arab book was translated into Latin and became available in northern Italy?
Wow, that almost convinced me that there was no Christian dark age 500-1200.
Also, are you gonna present anecdotal evidence all evening or can we agree that the scientific output was minimal/non existant compared to Roman or early modern times?
>christians say
More like ameritards """christians"""
>Christian dark age 500-1200.
samefagging, I might have been to hard, Christianity was likely not the main reason for the collapse of civilization, but it definitely didn't help much with the recovery. Like science and education was deadlocked for centuries by Christian doctrine. So it was part of the problem but not the cause.
(you)
I'll take it you are running out of arguments then?
>this
"Dark Ages" is a historical term meaning that there's a lack of sources. There was a tremendous lack of sources for Europe during this time period. Ergo, there was a dark age.
Byzantine for example had no such dark age, and there's countless sources.
>There was a tremendous lack of sources for Europe during this time period.
Yes, because literacy hit an all time low and the few people that could write did spend their time with bible fan fiction.
It is fair to say that civilization levels droped sharply in western Europe with the fall of Rome and it took almost a full millennium to recover.
>Like science and education was deadlocked for centuries by Christian doctrine.
But germanics didnt have any knowledge to begin with
All knowledge was brought by ERE scholars
>Like science and education was deadlocked for centuries by Christian doctrine
reddit is that-a-way
So the greatest minds all spend their time working on theology, but since theology doesn't make cars go faster you think they wasted their time.
>The name might also come from a bias from British historians due to the fact that England was getting absolutely fucked by Danes in that time period.
this.
People forget that History is written by Germanics, ironically people illiterate up until they caused their own alleged 'Dark Age'.
>The desert people are attacking from the south
>the horse people are coming from the east destroying everything in their path
>its too cold up north
>no land to the west
>"better go raid the only thing keeping everyone alive because I like gold"
Hence the fall of Rome.
>Like science and education was deadlocked for centuries by Christian doctrine
Any examples you'd like to share with us?
No, it was a historical period that began with the crisis of the third century and sort of finished in year ~1000 summarized by the economic, commercial and social decomposition of the western roman empire leading to protofeudalism and localism and then enhanced by about 4 centuries of barbarian invasions, loot and pillage during which only the Church, and specially the monastic orders, kept alive the flame of civilization and the heritage of the classical world.
>It is fair to say that civilization levels droped sharply in western Europe
How civilized was Germany and Saxon England at this time?
Who let the great Gothic civilization fall apart?
The mighty Pictish Empire with its highways and amphitheaters.
wh*Te subhumans were rolling in shit until the Black Iberian Moors civilized them. Fact.
The Dark Ages (a period following a massive socioeconomic collapse resulting from the fall of Rome and a multi-century recession) were real. The "Christian Dark Ages" are not. Christianity has 0% hand in the dark ages, and probably preserved tons of knowledge due to monasticism.
Apparently anti-biotics is way more effective than just praying the Plague away.
Theology is like the "science" of imaginary friends.
>literally "muh roads"
DAS RITE