Barbell rows

>The problem with you faggots is that you think you can do stronglifts and nothing else and expect to be ripped.

Being ripped has literally nothing to do with what specific routine or list of exercise you do. Being ripped is literally 100% dieting down to a low bodyfat percentage.

A guy who lifts, and only do big compound lifts, will still be ripped as fuck if he is low body-fat. Where do you people get this idea that doing incline bench over flat bench, or bicep curls over chin-ups..will some how make you get magic-tier results?

Depends on what you're going for. You want quality lats? Yates
You want a nice upper back? Pendlay

A guy who only does compound lifts will NOT look as ripped as a guy who does high -volume high rep work and that's a fact.

Show me 1 guy who only does 4 excersises and is ripped.

>Grip hypertrophy
You going for baseball glove mode?

>an exercise that even a gymnast would have trouble with.
You are greatly exaggerating the difficulty of pendlay row form.

Most people won't get enough volume in w I th only the big compounds. The point of assistance work, aside from preventing injury, is to provide additional volume for hypertrophy without seriously fatiguing you in the big lifts, i.e, you can keep getting stronger in them but still add volume without overworking youraelf.

Pendlay, if you use momentum at all rows just become completely useless.

Are you guys seriously new to lifting or something?

Rep out 60kg OHP, 100kg Bench, 140kg Squats, 180kg Deadlifts and eat properly during your adventure to those stats, and then cut down.

The only people who will remain skinny after that are genetic freaks who can be extremely strong with very limited muscle. The majority of people who can rep out those lifts will have drastically enlarged muscles, because that's what causes muscles to grow....progressive overload.

You must be a

If you use momentum rows resemble more of a deadlift. It's what Pete Rubish does and he's stronger than you'll ever be. It's about performing rows the same way every time at every weight.

It was hyperbole, but a proper pendlay at high weights ( something a typical SL user will reach in less than three months ) requires the kind of flexibility that allows you to touch your toes while your back is at a perfect 90° angle with your hips.

People on this board like to pretend that pendlays are easy, because admitting that they're not would also mean admitting they wasted months with an exercise they weren't good enough for.

There's a reason why there's so many stories of PTs stopping people doing pendlays and asking them what the fuck they're doing. It's because pendlays are an exercise that faded to obscurity in the 90s because everyone just accepted they weren't worth the associated risk.

Nobody would even know of their existence today if it wasn't for a couple people pushing them onto beginners.

Name one person you think is "ripped" that doesn't have low body fat, is on steroids, or both. Every body builder looks like shit in their off season, it's not the exercises.

>chin ups
My issue with chin ups, in fact doing calisthenics full stop, is that not all of us have the body weight for it to be a complete exercise. Furthermore, how is that motion any different from lateral pull down? Better yet, you can grip it differently for lat pull down.

Lastly, who the fuck does back exercises on their chest day? Half these exercises work biceps so you might as well do biceps on back day and really focus that split. With that in mind, what else would I do on back day besides deadlifts, lat pull downs... and rows?

Just my 0.02$ from a complete noob.

I do Yates, apparently. Is there much difference? From my perspective I'd rather get less angle because I'll row face down with dumbbells anyway. I do Yates, dumbbell, low row with cable and that's my back day, then I finish on bicep curl.

So today I did
Yates row
Bent dumbbell row
Low row with cable
Wide grip lat pull down
Close grip lat pull down
And a bunch of bicep curl exercises

You are changing the subject. It's impossible to get proper hypertrophy without high volume of excersise.

>requires the kind of flexibility that allows you to touch your toes while your back is at a perfect 90° angle with your hips
But that is easy. I get my chest flat to my knees no worries

Congrats. I hope you realize it's something objectively hard to do and that the astounding majority of people starting out on fitness can't do that.

Even if you started stretching regularly when you started SL, you won't have the required flexibility that matches the weights you reach with the normal progression.

please be bait

>I hope you realize it's something objectively hard to do
If you've played sports at a reasonable level it's literally not. If you're a deathfat who has never exercised you've only got yourself to blame

Brehs what should I do if 1. I'm too weak to do pullups/chinups and 2. my program calls for rows (Madcow)

>If you've played sports at a reasonable level it's literally not. If you're a deathfat who has never exercised you've only got yourself to blame

Dude, listen you yourself.
Comparatively nobody has played sports at a reasonable level.
There's a reason why "Touching your toes" is so popular as a test of flexibility. It's because no one can fucking do it.

You were sporty when young, congratulations.
Don't be an asshat and go "lmao bro it's easy look"
You're like people who have been lifting 4+ years who hammer on 2-month lifters because they can't squat 2pl8
You're so removed from reality you can't tell what a normal person's actuall skill level is

they both have their place. Yates will build your traps more. If your program asks for Pendlay do Pendlay and vice versa. You can always switch them up.

>requires the kind of flexibility that allows you to touch your toes while your back is at a perfect 90° angle with your hips.
This comes down 100% to individual body mechanics. Some people have longer limbs than others, which doesn't bear on your ability to keep a neutral spine while bent forward.

Cable rows and pull-ups > both

Barbell rows really are a meme

why the fuck would you do an intermediate program while you cannot do a single pull-up?

It still doesn't change that keeping a neutral spine while bent over 90° requires A LOT of exercise.

I'm really baffled, to be honest. I don't understand how Veeky Forums promotes realistic goals, constantly reminds beginners that it takes time to reach high weights, but when someone dares to say the objective truth that flexibility takes as long (if not longer) than strength to develop, they go apeshit.

I'm starting to think it's because so few people actually bother with it, that those that don't feel attacked. They need to say that stretching doesn't take effort, or they'll be outed as future denizens of snap city.

i guess you're not a powerlifter, huh?

heh

nothing personnel........................... kid..................

And you're severely overestimating what hypertrophy does. Go to any commercial gym, look at the sea of retards doing hypertrophy day in and day out. Every wonder why they all look like shit? Because they aren't on gear. Nattys respond to progressive overload through constantly heavier weight. What you think is ripped has little to do with 12 reps being some magical gateway to striations and more that low body fat is the key. Stop believing the bullshit you read in Men's Health.

ITT : People who still believe powerlifting will equate to an aesthetic body.

>Protip: It doesn't.

Keeping a neutral spine with knees locked requires lots of flexibility. Keeping a neutral spine with knees bent, like they're supposed to be when rowing, is very easy. Maintaining that neutrality through the lift is merely a question of lifting a weight appropriate to your strength.

'ok'

well, I'm fat and weigh 100kg at 20%bf, and still can do 3 sets of 5 chin-ups, why shouldn't a power lifter do some?

>My issue with chin ups, in fact doing calisthenics full stop, is that not all of us have the body weight for it to be a complete exercise.
If fat,
1
Lose weight
2
Assisted pullups (machine or band) or lat pulldowns will do fine
If skelly,
Dumbbell between legs or weight belt
>Furthermore, how is that motion any different from lateral pull down?
It engages the core. Why are you asking?
>Better yet, you can grip it differently for lat pull down.
You can also have different grips with a chinup bar (supine, prone, neutral, wide, narrow). What point are you trying to make?
>Lastly, who the fuck does back exercises on their chest day?
1
Upper body day or full body day
2
Who mentioned doing them on the same day, do PPL if you want
3
Who cares
4
Why is it important to do them separately/together
5
What does it have to do with rows vs chinups
>The one Half these exercises work biceps so you might as well do biceps on back day and really focus that split. With that in mind, what else would I do on back day besides deadlifts, lat pull downs... and rows?
This entire sentence makes no sense from top to bottom, just one detail: DLs on leg day if PPL or UL, not back.
>Just my 0.02$ from a complete noob.
It shows. Read the SS book, please.

Kek

Seal row

>thinks 1/2/3/4 is impressive

>they weren't worth the associated risk
What risk? Your lower back is under a lot more stress doing Yates than Pendlays

Forearms, smartass

/plg/ pls

Why the fuck are people comparing rows to chin ups ITT? That's like saying you shouldn't bench because OHP is better, why wouldn't you be doing both?

>powerlifting
>fat
Pick two

Bench works the pectorals, which OHP barely does.
OHP works the delts way more than bench.
There is not a single muscle that rows work that chinups and deadlifts don't.
False equivalence fallacy, educate yourself.
Rows aren't bad, they are simply redundant.

>There is not a single muscle that rows work that chinups and deadlifts don't.
Same could be said for bench/OHP

Pendlay, it gives a better range of motion for back development. Even better would be regular chin and pull ups and those are safer and better for your joints too.

dude, im able to do a pendlay row if i use the big, dark grey technogym-plates, and i never train them or stretch, and have been diagnosed with so extremely tight hamstrings it counts as a medical condition, and its a great way to reach the necessary flexibility by just using something to elevate barbell, and then evrybody can do it.

>ohp
>sternal head activation activation
pick one, without sternal head activation your shoulders and tris will put on more mass than ur chest

I do dumbbell rows, single arm, explosively in the 5-8 rep range.

I do pull-ups with wide grip and neutral grip and chins pretty much non-stop throughout the week, with one day specifically dedicated to doing them weighted for 5x5.

That's all I really do for back, suck my dick.

And I guess when I do pull-overs there must be some lat activation, but I try to focus on chest with that.

so guys what's the take away from this thread?

fuck rows?

the main compounds in my workout are:
A:
ohp
chin up
dips

B:
bench
row
deadlift

C:
squat

So you do chins every time?weighted or what

seated rows so you support your chest properly

Fuck these dyels.

Rows > chins for lats, ime

youtu.be/rNjwZ1fxtCQ
m.youtube.com/watch?v=4xq3BsKTzYo

>chest day
wut
>Just my 0.02$ from a complete noob.
Ah, I see. A DYEL. Opinion discarded.

Just starting SS. Should I really cut rows out? I'm already doing chins. Should I add something to replace them? Curious because my row and deadlift form is dog shit but I'm working on it. So far it's the biggest hurdle for me.

but the whole reason I did rows was for my back. chins always did my lats great

what's a good back exercise to accompany deads?

I can't back this up with a source, so take it with a pile of salt.
But, I'm under the impression that 'rep-ranges' are not mandatory for hypertrophy. At all. Doing 8-12 of something won't make you bigger than doing 3-5.
HOWEVER, you need to FATIGUE the muscle tissue in order for it to be sufficiently stressed and promote growth. How you choose to do that, is entirely up to you. You can do high reps - bang out 8-12 if that floats your boat OR just do various excercises in heavy 3-5 range working the muscle just as much.

A simplified (not factual) example would be to say if you want a big chest, you can do:
3x5 incline db bench
3x5 barbell bench
3x5 db flies
3x5 pec deck
3x5 decline bench

OR

3x8-12 incline bench
2x8-12 bench
3x8-12 db flies.

I personally do both. Push day:
3x5 barbell bench (strength)
3x6-10 incline db bench
3x8-12 cable flies

It's up to you how you do it, just fatigue the muscle. That's all you gotta do boys.

that's correct, see

Did you even read the post you replied to?

>reading
kek what a nerd

People in this thread seem to be choosing between chins and rows...
Why not both?

No one can do it? Where the fuck do you live?
Only amateur soccer players and some lanklets have problems with this and it is everyones duty to ridicule them for it.

I was going light today because tomorrow is my actual deadlift day, but I do pendlay (and just call them rows) because there is less margin of error in tracking the exact angle each rep is done and it's standardized more for long term strength tracking.

Just ask yourself this question: What would Rippletits say?
And don`t listen to every wanker who shitposts on /fit. Me probably included.

the only exercises you'll need for the rest of your life

bench press (and variations)
dips
OHP
chest flys
lateral raises
triceps isolation (any)

rows (best variation = 1 handed db)
chins/pulldowns (narrow supinated/neutral parallel grip)
rack pulls
loaded carries (farmers walk)
hyperextensions
face pulls/rear delt flys
biceps isolation (any)

squats (best variation = front)
deadlifts (best = RDL)
lunges or step ups
hip thrusts
donkey raises or walk on incline

there, the BEST exercises 2016-3016.

"No"

>chest flys
>block pulls but no halting deadlifts
>block pulls under back exercises (they're not)
>hyperextensions under back exercises (they're not)
>RDL best deadlift (conventional is, always)
>front squats as best squats (that's high bar)
>no cleans
>hip thrusts

Most of your list is good, but there are improvements.

t. Not fat powerlifter

>flys isolate chest better than any press can
>halting dl = useless for general looks, ye they only cool for fixing dl weaknesses
>they are
>again, conventional dl is best if u gon' compete
>same thing
>cleans require a trainer and mastering a technique, which most people aren't willing to get
>wna have healthy lower back? do em.

Rows train literally everything chinups do, except through half the ROM (so less hypertrophy gains)
Rows put you in a mechanically disadvantageous position, meaning you move less weight (less strength gains)
Rows train your posterior chain (erectors, hams, ass) way less than DLs do, they only fatigue you and you do worse when it is time to DL.
You cannot unanimously define a good row rep, (some will pull up till where they can, some will use lighter weight and touch chest, some will touch stomach, some will jerk the weight or move torso down to meet bar, some will not) while a chinup is defined by its name: put your chin over the bar. And ffs don't kip.

oi, skipped hyperextensions
>they are

This.

you don't even have basic knowledge of the exercise whydo you critisize it then.

>only
>3 page essay
Let me help.
>bench press
>dips
>OHP
Enough. Lat raises and (low to high cable) chest flies help with hypertrophy but are far from necessary.

>chins/pulldowns (narrow supinated/neutral parallel grip)
>loaded carries (farmers walk)
These are enough for back. Maybe db rows, face pulls and a curl, but again: they are far from necessary and only to be done if you have 30 minutes to waste in the gym.

>squats (best variation = front)
Best is high bar, maaaaaaybe lowbar if you have fuckhuge femurs.
>deadlifts (best = RDL)
Best is conventional, overhand hookgrip. Is this bait?
These are enough. Lunges and cleans are excellent exercises, but again, you don't *need* them. Do them if you can. The rest is trash.

Don't forget your cardio too!

papa Fat Texan Powergut would be proud of you

>high bar
>cardio
>Rippetoe
You just wanted to meme, didn't you? Here, have a (You)

What does everyone think of the landmine/long bar row over barbell rows? I started with the former then went on to the latter later.

oshit so many differences we collectively have enough fingers to count em

dont have*

hehe oopsie

I find these really frustrating. As the weight goes up it is too easy to change the angle of your back relative to the ground in order to increase your leverages.

I've switched to using the t-bar row attachment on the cable row machine after penally rows. Same motion, but its easier to track my back angle relative to the weight, and easier to isolate the lats.

>implying cable flyes, lat raises, skullcrushers, curls, rack pulls, hyperextensions, db rows, facepulls, lunges/stepups, donkey raises and fucking hip thrusts are anywhere near "necessary" towards any goal
>being this mad that your shit list was quickly debunked
Post again after you pull 4 plate, ok?

I actually stopped doing hyper extensions when i read an article Mark Rippitoe released about how it might not be 100% neccassary. He went on to say that maybe squats and deads are enough. I end up replacing hypers with planks. my lower back stopped hurting so much.

a single tear by rippletits was dropped. a tear of proudness.

>there are people with arms longer than their legs
Really think about what you're saying here, guy.

how do you standing ohp without thrusting your hips

implying a 180kg deadlift is impressive lmao
i pulled 200kg after a bit more than a year of training...
provided, i have disproportionately huge legs but w/e

Keep those ass-cheeks clenched to immobilize your hips.

I can, erm, you know, form-check you and stuff... make sure your glutes are, um, REAL TIGHT.

There's only one kind. The barbell row. Each rep begins and ends on the ground. Like a bent over deadlift.

>you need a trainer to learn cleans

No

Flys are a fucking useless meme exercise.

Halting deadlifts are great for working off the floor and getting deadlift volume without putting the strain on your nervous system a full deadlift does. Especially when paired with block pulls.

Conventional deadlifts are flat out better and don't require a meme setup like RDL.

Hyperextensions literally use your hamstrings and glutes as primary movers. If your back flexes while doing them you're going to hurt yourself.

What the hell is a meme setup