How mass murdering and enslaving did Marcus Aurelius' do in his battles? Reading his The Meditations...

It's a stupid argument but motivating nonetheless

I agree with you that hippies tend to be very self-righteous and hypocritical, but that seems like a minor argument.

The way nature is defined presumes rigid svabhāva. One's nature is largely fluid/plastic (impermanent), contingent on many changing conditions (interdependence), and lacks underlying essence (Shunyata) imo.

The West has GENERALLY been spiritually impoverished compared to the East.

>Your role is to not just feel pleasure, but to work.
You don't tell me what my role is, icchantika.

>The way nature is defined presumes rigid svabhāva. One's nature is largely fluid/plastic (impermanent), contingent on many changing conditions (interdependence), and lacks underlying essence (Shunyata) imo.
>The West has GENERALLY been spiritually impoverished compared to the East.

You sound like such a tremendous pompous asshole.

>The West has GENERALLY been spiritually impoverished compared to the East.

The West has been spiritually impoverished because it inherited the traditions of Zoroastrian dualism. I agree with Hegel's analysis there. This is why light is a frequent metaphor used by Westerners, and John Gray argues similarly in that the West views history as a progressive movement towards greater light/clarity/truth:

books.google.com/books?id=2Xbat5z5HIgC&pg=PA10&lpg=PA10&dq=john gray zoroastrianism&source=bl&ots=qwZgpQS0re&sig=gQQ9B0Il6N-SdmmWgmYwkGO6dvI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiNluXnwILYAhXlkOAKHRKGAwoQ6AEINzAC#v=onepage&q=john gray zoroastrianism&f=false

The East inherited Vedic/Upanishidic nondualism and developed genuine mystical movements unlike the West.

>The West has GENERALLY been spiritually impoverished compared to the East.
agreed.

I'm a hedonist too but getting out of bed is practical for hedonists too (except if you manage to completely disassociate from your future self)

There's plenty of mystery and occult schools in the west, but the church tried to establish their monopoly and claim all of it for themselves, so it's been hidden for a long time and not really influencing pop-culture in a genuine way beyond breadcrumbs spread here and there.

>There's plenty of mystery and occult schools in the west
Yes, I have studied them, and they are all shit. It actually began largely with Roman Mithraism, which was a blend of Hellenism, Persian religion, and Roman stuff.

>the church tried to establish their monopoly and claim all of it for themselves
Crowley, magick, Hermeticism, it's all shit. I really try to avoid anyone involved in magick because you lot tend to be A) degenerate, B) pretentious, and C) full of shit.

>not really influencing pop-culture in a genuine way beyond breadcrumbs spread here and there.
David Bowie's shitty music is heavily influenced by it. Some of the most disgusting, vile crap I have ever seen. Honestly, at this point, the West deserves being overrun by Chinese and Indians, and I say this as a Westerner. You people have become way too degenerate and spiritually impoverished for your own good.

> I say this as a Westerner
> You people

All of the examples you mentioned are pop-occult stuff, they hid it behind symbols behind symbols behind symbols for a reason. If you want the actual arts in practice you need to join on of the order or schools and prove yourself. There's one rule in any occult art and it's dedication, you're in or out, and if you're in you devote body, mind spirit without reservation to it. If you want the real thing, don't act like a tourist.

Our culture is shit.

t. muslim

I would really like to like occultism, but it seems like larping to me since noone cares to explain their metaphors and act smugly about it instead.

Also, I think occultism is more about psychological modelling and "belief-mancing", but you never get them to admit them which invalidates at least the first part imo. Eastern religions have the same problem mostly, but are popular enough to have followers which prefer communicating over building their sense of superiority on your knowledge disparity concerning their secret language.

He is referring to occultists not westerners in general

Problem is I want to know what I devote myself to before doing so, and not being open about your product smells like a scam

To be fair in global capitalism every culture is shit.

Yes, I know of the retarded organizations, which resemble fraternities and have retarded rituals and traditions. A∴A∴ is one of them, and it is shit. There are others ofc and are equally as retarded.

Listen, I am sick and tired of you people. You are pretentious, stupid pieces of shit.

I'm not a Muslim. Why would a Muslim be saying the East is better? Please explain that, retard. Not everyone that dislikes your culture is a Muslim. In fact, I probably know your culture better than you do.

>superiority
You seem to have a problem with some kind of inferiority complex to reduce your criticisms to "sense of superiority". Why don't you actually read the metaphysical texts to derive better criticisms?

>He is referring to occultists not westerners in general
Nope, I am referring to Westerners in general.

>To be fair in global capitalism every culture is shit.
The West was always shit compared to the East.

I wonder why you don't have friends

I have found Western culture, in general, to be the most insincere and spiritually impoverished of all, just like Marcus Aurelius' bullshit or most Christian dogma about "muh Jesus". I would go a step further and say a Westerner has never truly befriended anyone because they are generally incapable of knowing "themselves". You people form and break friendships like it's nothing because you don't bond with anyone except for carnal desires, your "dust" to use a Chinese metaphor. Your entire culture is filth, just like your minds. It was only after I broke off all relations to my Western friends that I became happy. Not everyone hates you because they're muzzies. Some people hate because they see the void in your hearts most clearly.

>Also, I think occultism is more about psychological modelling and "belief-mancing"

Bla, bla, bla. Same shit as always, no magic is nothing like that at all. It involves the mind obviously but has nothing to do with that low grade self hypnotism bs, or any of the other pseudo-scientific theories the modern day apologists try and cultivate to justify their existence in a scientifically dominated world.

I was where you are now, and there was not a single fucking modern iteration of anything ancient I didn't go through or study- and eventually abandoned. Until did finally find the real deal, and the difference is ridiculous. Not gonna give you directions, just so you know, the real deal exists. Not a lot, but I know there's at least a few here and there besides the one I'm with. The real arts don't posture or recruit though, and needs nothing from us, so just be aware that you are the supplicant and it is the prize, not the other way around. You won't find it in grand halls or wide spread groups, if you are ready for it you're mind will try and piece together the puzzle when it is put before you, otherwise you'll pass it by without even noticing it.

As far as being cautious of scams goes... that's the kind of thing you should already have grown an awareness of. You should be able to deal if it is the real deal simply by the energy it gives off. If the text gives you a headache that's not really a headache, then you're on the right track.Also, the real arts don't welcome warmly usually, they give you just enough rope to either climb with or hang yourself with. It's not for tourists, and the real stuff isn't something you bind yourself to for the rest of your life even, but forever. If you don't feel a calling to it that supersedes everything to that point, why would it give the same to you?

Everything you say is fluff and bullshit, just like your mind. Get to the point, you stupid pretentious prick. What I have noticed with retarded Westerners is they speak in wooden language and act secretive whenever they have nothing valuable to say. It's just a joke to you, all the way down to your shitty culture. Cioran, who was a crappy thinker, really got down to the nonsense of your culture.

Ding ding ding

The true flaw in the heart of normie man is the constant urge to appear holy to themselves and others without the almost self-masochistic urge of non-normies to align physical truth with mental truth.

They really can't help but be cocksuckers for power. In this sense, I shed no tears for the majority of the slaughtered and wounded. For were the circumstances turned around, the normies on the other side would end up being the terrible type of cocksuckers that gives credence to the saying "Hell is other people.".

And then you have these silicon valley type cocksuckers who have to say to themselves "the work I'm doing is for the good of mankind" while enslaving cognitive frames to more and more degenerate forms of parasitic advertising. The modern world has become an insane asylum and my only consolation is that someday I can run off to some desolate place near the arctic circle and wake up to austere beauty. Moments like that are worth more than all the shitty psychopathic clickbait cognitive parasites these shitty silicon valley types come up with.

>They really can't help but be cocksuckers for power
Nope, it's just Western culture that reinforces that. Even your friendships are founded on cost-benefit analyses. Very few of you people are truly sincere.

>I shed no tears for the majority of the slaughtered and wounded
Doesn't matter because your tears are probably as fake and crimped as your heart. I doubt you truly feel for anything in this life in any sincere manner.

>can run off to some desolate place near the arctic circle and wake up to austere beauty
I doubt people like you can even handle solitude without going crazy.

He was Emperor of Rome. Part of his job included fighting against Rome's enemies. When Barbarians invaded Rome, what do you think she should do?
Create a #notallbarbarians campaign and creating quotas for transgender people in the senate?

I'm trained in several asian schools as well so this isn't a "west vs east" debate. And there is no point I'm trying to reach, just gave a heads up that what you find on sacred-texts.com or some other easy to reach places is outsiders trying to peek in, simple as that. And the same goes the eastern schools as well.

Doesn't matter. The entire West is shit. Romans, Greeks, Persians, Europeans, Semites, Turks, etc., they are all pure shit. By West, I am referring to all of Western Eurasian being shit.

You make absolutely no specific claims and speak in a very deflective way. Trying to act secretive isn't going to generate interest in me.

>I'm trained in several asian schools
Why not just list them?

>some other easy to reach places is outsiders trying to peek in, simple as that
Specify. Give examples based on your own crappy tradition.

>And the same goes the eastern schools as well.
Eastern schools are actually more accessible to a sincere mind. It's not hidden in some tucked corner. For example, one can simply learn Shikantaza by reading various texts by Dogen or watching some Soto teachers explain it on Youtube, and then they can practice it while reading sutras or poetry of the Greats. It's not inaccessible to anyone except pretentious Westerners like you.

>Western Eurasian
West Eurasia*

This is so true you were blessed with those amazing quads
The problem isnt solely the people per say, it's also (((them))) who pull the strings to prevent a new spiritual rennaissance

>spiritual rennaissance
All of West Eurasia is beyond being "spiritually saved".

Kinda the point, I'm not trying to generate interest, and I already told you, no advertisement. Just giving a post saying that the west isn't as bankrupt as some would claim. It's just as hidden as it is everywhere. You're not gonna find it any easy, any more than you don't find a real Shugendo master in your local park. The fact that you're so obviously bitter about things relies on the assumption you deserve it to begin with.

Addendum: And for the record, when I say asian arts I'm talking about the real magic practices not spiritual belief and philosophy.

You are a mentally bankrupt stupid piece of shit. I don't give a fuck what pretentious bastards like you do, and I genuinely hope you choke and die. No memes. Eat shit and die, you retarded pretentious faggot.

>"crappy tradition"
>"accessible to a sincere mind"
>shitting all over others and jerking yourself off with subjective non-praise and non-criticism and then proceeding to call other pretentious

So say the spiritually enlightened autist, heed his words that overflow with the wisdom of the ages, and repent you western dogs to the superior asian ways.

It's not like east-asia at all is jealous of the European success and thinks the secret key is Christianity and it's centralizing tendencies and so is trying to emulate it at breakneck speed.

At least I speak with precision.

The West is spiritually impoverished because coupling its Abrahamic dogma with dualistic progressivist bullshit, which is inherent in the former, has unleashed a monster in the form of global capitalism and this retarded striving for Transhumanist supremacy.

There's a reason why Transhumanist imagery is prevalent in shitty pop-art. I actually know of one of those retarded secret groups that idiot is talking about. Their goal is to keep the world in constant tension by buying out politicians. They want to fuel technological innovation by keeping the world in constant tension, funding both sides. Their religious beliefs are a mix of retarded magick, system of grades & initiation, and more. They want to become immortal by fusing with the machine.

I hate you Westerners a lot.

>still caring about spirituality in an ever increasingly more rational world

This is why your country got chopped up and sold by the penny Chang, meditating about your inner self is admirable and all but it won't help you in anything other than feeling good about yourself on an imageboard. There's a reason why most asian countries have given up on their traditionalist/isolationist way of life once they saw the West and its might.

But hey if you want to continue wasting your time with that philosophical nonsense by all means, just remember to continue paying your taxes so you're not a complete waste of oxygen.

Yea, I swear I'd almost think that he's trolling but he seems like too much of ass to be like that.

I'm a Westerner myself, sadly, and I think the fact East-Asia is doing that signifies the "Kali Yuga" or "Dharma-ending Age". Imitating the West destroys one's spiritual traditions -- it commodifies them and makes one a passive market for snow niggers.

>once they saw the West and its might.
I pray Indians and Chinese overrun your shit country, take your jobs, and give you hell, icchantika.

Keep praying, maybe something will happen this time.

Meanwhile be sure to work on building my new Ipad, it won't make itself you know.

Like I told you, faggot, I am not East Asian. I am a Westerner, sadly. I have given more precise criticism of Western religious traditions above.

Your culture, your people, they are filth. I doubt you even know yourself and choose to cling to dust ("desire for sensation"). You are like a hungry ghost that is afraid of solitude and looking inward.

>I am a westerner, sadly

Real talk, do you have IRL friends?

Oh no I'm sure you're not east asian, that disgusting way of talk is the marking of an asian-american mongrel trying to find some connection to his heritage and rejecting the western society that has raised you.

Like I said, keep reading your philosophical nonsense, it won't help you in anything other than feeling good about yourself on an imageboard.

>clean your room

>keep reading your philosophical nonsense,
It only comes off as nonsense to dumbasses like you because you're spiritually impoverished. Ted Kaczynski is more right than you think. I'll be laughing my ass off when you people resort to eating each other after the global economic collapse. So much for "values".

You play with the fire and blackness of ambition, and you will see the greatest of narakas that was of your own making.

Check here:

Is everything ok?

So long as I don't have to deal with you Westerners, beyond seeing my own face in the mirror, then things are fine. The more money I have, the more I can isolate myself and not have to put up with you hungry ghosts.

To the magick person:

Did you apply the scientific method to make sure you are not just brainwashing yourself into seeing the results you expect?

>(((as a westerner)))

Sounds like you are under heavy influence of self-hypnosis. Not much of a known cure on that one. I would recommend talking to people and getting laid. Works 100% of the time some of the time.

I'm not Jewish if that's what you're implying.

I recommend you stop being a decadent, spiritually impoverished faggot and looking into your true nature, your original mind.

>and looking
and instead look*

pls respond to
confirmation bias is a bitch so this is really important

would love to fling some fireballs myself though

Marcus Aurelius is not a philosopher. He is someone who had read philosophy and used it to console himself within his everyday life. That's the value of the meditations: it's an example of use.
In any case, Aurelius wasn't coming up with justifications or condemnations of slavery or of the system of emperors. It seems weird to scrutinize him, a roman emperor first and foremost, for failing to do so.

I do not respect magick, and I know the kind of bullshit you're referring to from reading other texts.

Not an expert, what do you call your stuff then? And what is "magick" then?

Original question still remains

The goal of magick is fundamentally at odds with the goal of most meditative practices of the East. The former is about bringing out ambition and applying oneself in an egoistic way to manifest 'ideas' as actual forms (e.g., apply scientific method to throwing away childhood toys as symbolic of letting go of one's past to move on). However, what I am saying to you is magick is fundamentally the practice of icchantikas, of deluded monkeys like yourself.

>Original question still remains
Go back to your meds.

>insulting me who did not insult you instead of answering my question
pointing towards your self-deception must hurt, sorry for that but it is necessary.

Have to say though insulting people on an anime image board does not really sound that enlightened. But yeah I know that feeling of being angry because of my own feeling of superiority, just recently learned that it is better to not act like that. Maybe try to teach others kindly instead, you might learn something yourself in turn :)

Westerners can never be satiated with the simply joys of life. They cannot see infinity in simply joys like eating an orange, cuddling cats, or what have you. They always want more, they want to strive for more, and in the process, they destroy everything for the their ambition.

Their will is insatiable and they always want more. A lot of what Schopenhauer says is largely applicable only to West Eurasian cultures, such as Abrahamic and Zoroastrian filth.

How dare they revolt against the tyranny of azathoth, the blind idiot god!

I think the apparent hypocrisy and contradictions to be found between Marcus' writings and his real life are more or less the point. On top of the fact that he presided over one of the most powerful, militaristic empires in history, he sired one of the most infamously inept emperors. Between all of this, he dealt with the first movements of the Great Migration, the devastating Antonine plague, attempted usurpation from Avidius Cassius, and constant illness. He lived a difficult and arduous life, and his writings (which, keep in mind, were never intended to be published or made public, they were his private logs) served as it says in the title, his Meditations.

They chronicle his despair, his uncertainty, and his reconciliation with faith and philosophy. Despite how the book is apparently formatted he isn't attempting to lecture, his passages are directed towards himself. Despite modern renditions of the Meditations spending a good deal of time trying to make this clear in introductory sections, people still seem to not realize that when Marcus speaks to "you" he's speaking from an outward perspective towards himself. The book serves as a personal set of reminders, a log of Stoic virtues that Marcus felt would help steel himself against the wide array of external bullshit he had to contend with.

I suppose I'd retort to OP's hypothetical question with "would it be easier for you to digest Stoic philosophy if the Meditations came from the likes of someone such as Diogenes? Someone who intentionally lives without responsibility or bother? Whose chief concern in life is should he rub one out in public now or later? Or, would you respect a philosophy predicated on hardening your mind into a figurative fortress and learning to cope with the external more if it came from someone that had to contend with one of the most difficult roles in history? Even if part of what that role entails is unfortunately grisly?"

>I suppose I'd retort to OP's hypothetical question with "would it be easier for you to digest Stoic philosophy if the Meditations came from the likes of someone such as Diogenes? Someone who intentionally lives without responsibility or bother? Whose chief concern in life is should he rub one out in public now or later? Or, would you respect a philosophy predicated on hardening your mind into a figurative fortress and learning to cope with the external more if it came from someone that had to contend with one of the most difficult roles in history? Even if part of what that role entails is unfortunately grisly?"

Well, philosophers are easier to accept and separate from their society since they just sit around lecturing and teaching, and don't get their hands messy. People are fine learning from these uncorrupted philosophers. Of course, they were probably no better or worse than anyone else at their times,b ut their hands are clean. Any politician however, has dirty hands. A question all politicians have to deal with is: How many people should I kill, and how often? I'm not joking or being crass. There's always going to be wars, rebellions, and such.

Modern people wouldn't bat an eye reading a self-help book from an American President, whose hands are just as dirty as Aurelius. I consider that more hypocritical than anything.

Speak well of the West.....

You know very well that even if a rare minoraty, there still are good people in the west, and as rare as they might be there are still good and old fashion persons trougth the world
The west can and should be saved, even if for that we have to descend into a dictatorship for the duration of our lifetime

Scientific method is a bit of a misnomer. But as I said before, it's a practice not a fluffy philosophy or spiritual belief. Once you get into it you become it and it you, so to answer your question, the results speak for themselves.

here's a bit of a "red pill" answer for you.

If we imagine slavery today, with the people we know, our neighbors, etc, we are horrified and rightly so. This isn't because of some enlightenment notion of universal human rights, we know it would be wrong to enslave a citizen of a modern developed nation because we understand that they are CIVILIZED.

The people Marcus Aurelius was enslaving weren't civilized. The people his armies were slaughtering and subjugating weren't civilized. The uncultured, illiterate masses you'd run into in the time of Rome were little better than BEASTS, or perhaps no better.

Picture people that can't be reasoned with, who won't cooperate even if offered a deal that's greatly beneficial to them. Picture people unable to organize themselves, unable to maintain a shred of order or stability.
Imagine strolling into the Sodoms and Gomorrahs of the day. It might sound oddly christian-conservative to bring up 'moral' concerns like this, but you must picture that the actual state of things would have been considerably more serious than "two dudes having buttsex! GASP!". Picture something like Lord of the Flies' but it's thousands of people, and now they're all grown up and horny.
In fact, Lord of the Flies is great for illustrating my point: Man's natural state is savagery. Civilization had to overcome this state, And god knows you can't make an omelette without breaking a few barbarians.

>The people Marcus Aurelius was enslaving weren't civilized.
The Parthians were very civilized, you stupid fucker. They were literally Zoroastrian-Buddhist hybrids.

>civilized/uncivilized dichotomy fallacy
>ignoring that Romans enslaved so called "civilized" people all the time
>ignoring that slaves were Romanized after capture
>cites Sodom and Gamorrah story unironically

t. brainlet

> I am technically more accurate than you therefore I win.

yea, it's broad strokes here fellas. My point is: The people of today who would invalidate Marcus Aurelius because of those atrocities, if they had to deal with those ancient peoples, if they had to try to negotiate with them, try to form stable relations with their countries, try to govern them when they conquered their lands...

They would fucking rage quit and order every man woman and child slaughtered.

>This post

War to some degree was probably unavoidable. Genoicdes, mass murder, and enslavement probably is not. Roman armies were rapist enslaving psychos.

We're literally destroying the planet through our use of fossil fuels, but any serious proposition of 100% eliminating them from our societies is brain dead retarded. Slavery and mass murder were just how you built your empire, sustained its prosperity, and secured your borders. Just like how we all eat meat, go to work for income, or die of old age. Thousands of years from now, all those will look like sins of ignorance or worse. Morality is practicality. You can only be as moral as you can do something.

> I know how to avoid violence
Easy as fuck to say typing words into you magic box in the future.

Romans took no precautions to avoid mass rape, it was basically official policy. A bonus for soldiers. Along with looting. Enslavement is official policy as well.

You can at least, you know, try. But everything about their morality is Roman-centric.

Slavery is also economically stupid and short term thinking. Only benefits the slave owners, but screws out the rest of society. Though I'm not sure if the economic arguement could have been understood by the Romans at the time. They didn't understand Inflation.

This strikes me as a point worth making in the Basic Minimum Income debate, where machines fill the roll of slaves.

Do it fucking gook. Start a nuclear war, remember we have better everything than you and we will destroy you and survive even if it destroys our future and we will celebrate it, like victors, even make a triumph in the forbiden city and a holyday

I'm not East Asian. I made that clear.

A bugman at heart.

Nope, I agree more with Ted Kaczynski's views.

I really really hate this form of simplification.