The Nazi Party never comes to power in Germany

I feel like playing Darkest Hour again.

>Mosley overthrows the decadent British aristocrats
>Dolfuss revitalizes Austria
>Franco and Salazar usher in an Iberian Golden Age
>Codreanu makes Romania great again
>Plínio Salgado founds the clerical fascist Brazilian Empire
Why, why?

>had trouble beating Ethiopians and greeks let alone any major super power
>invaded germany
how is delusion like this even possible

>Its possible Stalin could have just steamrolled the entire continent
No it isn't. the USSR didn't have anywhere near the population seize to do that.

As good as the Germans were, I doubt even they could have taken on the Polish, Italians, French, and British all at the same time.

maybe someone should have told napoleon

Well the Mafia in the US really wanted to help kill him, so he must have been doing something right

>romania
>EVER great
lol

Well, three out of four with the fourth being an ally.
>b-but Britain
UK and France were wrecked after WWI, guarantee if Britain wasn't an island they would've folded along with nearly all the continental countries.

woah..
so THIS is the power of the wehraboo...

>with Il Duce fighting on the side of righteousness

And what side would that be? Mussolini was a Marxist in his earlier life, and continued to abhor capitalism.

Not even a wehraboo, everything I said is fact.
Poland was defeated.
France was defeated.
Britain was driven off the continent and would've been defeated if the weren't an island.
Italy couldn't even beat Ethiopia, so I doubt Germany would've had much trouble there.
Without the US and/or the USSR getting involved, I doubt they would've lost.

They got lucky with France when they weren't caught with their pants down in the Ardennes forest, and Italy's main two problems were bad officers and low supplies, the latter of which wouldn't be a problem with lend-lease shipments.

Germany doesn't violated the treaty of Versailles in 1935;
although frustrated, Italy doesn't have an excuse to invade Ethiopia by 1936 and is too afraid to invade it since it doesn't have a strong ally (Germany) to fend off hostilities from other countries and is afraid of an intervention from France or England (though they didn't really care about Ethiopia, even if they gave weapons to the ethiopians against italians).
Italy still sends its first armored division to Spain to expand its fascist influence.
In 1938, in an effort to motorize the society (to then achieve a mechanized army), Mussolini pushes various laws to decrease fuel consumption and increase the amount of vehicles (from 3.000.000 cars, to 6.000.000).
WW2 doesn't happen, through the teachings of De Simone Italy aquires the most advanced mechanized doctrine of its time, with its Guerra di Rapido Corso introduced in 1936, but the lack of resources such as steel and oil doesn't grant enough vehicles to reach the same amount of mechanized divisions as other contemporary armies.
By 1950, Italy has 28 mechanized division, 8 armoured divisions and 35 motorized divisions, still awaiting for new vehicles to fully mechanize them.
In a rush to aquire oil for its autarchic economy, Italy finally finds the black gold in South Italy and Lybia.
In an eventual war with the U.R.S.S., Italy, as the fascist representative of Europe, enters in a war against them together with the commonwealth.
Utilizing the chaos as an advantage, they'd finally invade Yugoslavia by swiftly penetrating through the Carso, as planned for over 40 years.
The U.R.S.S. would eventually fall and Italy would try to aquire some new land, but because of their invasion of Yugoslavia, they'll refuse to grant her land.
Not sure what would happen next.

>Italy couldn't even beat Ethiopia, so I doubt Germany would've had much trouble there.
Italy did beat Ethiopia, though, and they steamrolled through Yugoslavia and Albania.

>Italy
>doing anything of worth in wartime

laughing every love

Do poltards unironically think Fascism is viable?

you have to go back btw

As opposed to what, signing a peace treaty with the enemy and getting nuked?

It almost happened in 1934, after the German second attempt at Anschluss

Colonialism wouldn't end in this scenario. You'd easily be able to have European Empires (including an Italian one which would be a regional power, but not world power) in the present day.

Italy was weak because Germany dragged them into a war they were unprepared for. Had Italy a few more years to prepare, they would have been a formidable military power.

Reminder Italy very likely had among the top 5 strongest navies at this time.

Fascism was firmly anti-communist. Thats the main reason it was so popular with the people. Nobody wanted "Russian conditions".

>is too afraid to invade it since it doesn't have a strong ally (Germany)
Germany didn't become an ally until after the conquest of Ethiopia ended. Italy was quite hostile towards Germany until she needed her after the Brits and the French put sanctions on Italy.
The invasion would have still happened, but Italy wouldn't have had a strong ally AFTER the war, not BEFORE.

Italy was too afraid to invade Ethiopia because of an eventual intervention by Britain or France.
Italy only invaded once Germany broke the treaty of Versailles in early 1935 and she had received intelligence that neither the UK, nor France would've halted Italy's advance through Ethiopia.
In the end, without Germany breaking the treaty, I doubt Italy would've invade Ethiopia, and it is actually better for them, as Ethiopia proved to be just an immense waste of resources and money.

Depends on many factors. The most important ones would be, how well would Mussolini manage to keep internal competition at bay (how does Balbo die without the war? Would Mussolini openly assassinate him?), how long Mussolini keeps autarky going, how long Mussolini tries to hold on to the colonies and how much resources are wasted upon them, and finally the timelie for an eventual west/ussr war.

While it is true that the pact of steel read that war wouldn't have been started until both countries were ready (1943) and that Hitler invaded Poland prematurely, it is also true that Mussolini first declared war against the allies after the invasion of Poland, and then proceeded to invade France (by its own will).

>Had Italy a few more years to prepare, they would have been a formidable military power.
No way. It's true that Italy was forced into the war well before having a prepared military, but no amount of time could have allowed it to become a formidable military power.
Think about it, how can a country 100% dependent on imports for fuel and raw materials ever hope to become a military powerhouse? It could never outlast mostly self sufficient empires like Britain, Russia and America, and they're wayyy too big/well defended for a blitzkrieg strategy to be viable.

Sadly, what he said is true.
Despite the immense effort done to try to motorize the sociey and mechanize the army, it was way too late.
Despite this, Italy had a firm grasp of the new war.
Their "Guerra Di Rapido Corso" had the same structure and concept as Guderian's Blitzkrieg, and the Comando Supremo was fully aware of their deficiencies, and so was Mussolini.
The issue is that Badoglio gave way too much power to Mussolini, and since he didn't have any military background (other than infantry during WWI), he simply wasn't able to lead the army, and the italian army as a result was overextended and resourcesless 100% of the time.

Lol the Italians would have been defeated in a week.

>since he didn't have any military background (other than infantry during WWI), he simply wasn't able to lead the army, and the italian army as a result was overextended and resourcesless 100% of the time
It makes more sense when you consider Mussolini's statements in regards to war efforts. He was basically using the italian military as a flag planting force rather than actually attempting at waging war. Basically just grab as many strategic territories as possible and try to hold them until Germany is done with the allies and can help out so Italy can claim them in the peace talks which Mussolini was sure were gonna start after a few months of war.
Quite frankly, it wasn't even that bad a gamble. All it would have taken to validate it was for Britain to abandon the continent after the fall of France.
Afterall there was no real alternative, short of staying out of the war altogether. Italy simply lacked the resources and industrial capacity to really wage war in any meaningful way.

extremely, the sicilian mafia were completely btfo only to be brought back by the americans to help with the allied invasion
thanks yanks

The italians had planned a defensive war against Germany for over 20 years.
Seeing as it was one of the three hypotesis made by them after WW1, and that they took Yugoslavia down without any problem in a few weeks following one of them, I wouldn't be so sure.
They only started thinking about a war against Great Britain and France after the spanish civil war, while the other powers had already studied accurate plans to take down their opponents.

Germans would have had to attack through the Alpine mountains, and Italy had some damn good mountaineers, so that would have gone poorly for the Germans.

>Germans would have had to attack through the Alpine mountains, and Italy had some damn good mountaineers, so that would have gone poorly for the Germans.
The post you are referring to clearly implied that the Italians were on the attacking side.
No need for the German army to cross the Alps in an attacking movement.

But there would be no reason for them to attack Germany, their plans for a supposed war with Germany were all defensive with an eventual counter-attack.

>But there would be no reason for them to attack Germany
I know but that's not what the initial post was about.

>WW2 occurs between capitalism and communism,

hahaha

No fuckin' way. USSR is weak. The Soviet Super State only occured BECAUSE of WWII gave them Eastern Europe. All that would happen without WWII is that USSR would be paranoid, scared, and hide away behind their borders. Nothing would ever happen. Cold War plays out after the development of nuclear weapons prevents direct conflict, but on a smaller scale.

Is that Joe Rogan? I can imagine him giving a speech.

"Well no because
*brings mic closer*
The Roman Empire will rise again. I was reading this socialist newspaper about how DMT can actually bring about a resurgent Italy because - Jamie can you pull that up? - Yeah but its because you can trip on this fascist Roman iconography ... here we go
*looks over at screen*
look at that,"
That panzer has to be like, what 400 lbs?
Jesus those things will tear you to shreds.
Anyways I was elk hunting."

>after the development of nuclear weapons
tha might even happen in Germany, instead of the USA, since all the German scientists that fled Europe, either because of the racial laws or because the USA snatched them after the war, would stay in Europe

>Conquered by the Greeks.

>ywn live in a timeline where Fascism wasn't tainted by autistic g*rmanic nazism full of retarded n*rdic racial theories.
>Mussolinis regime will never last past 1970's

What a horrible timeline we live in...

They just have to do it before Germany accomplishes any major rearmament

>lose in russia
>lose in africa
>lose in Italy

>No one could have stopped them guys!

>Mussolini starts demanding Illyria and Corsica
>Gets his ass kicked by France and Yugoslavia

Anyone got any good books to recommend on Italy from the Risorgimento to the fall of Fascism?

>Mussolini invades Greece on his own
>fucks up
>gets overthrown by King Victor Emmanuel and put in prison
>Italy transitions towards parliamentary monarchy democracy

>gets overthrown by King Victor Emmanuel and put in prison
>Balbo is elected as a replacement Duce and doens't fuck up as hard

The fun thing is that the king had planned that since the start.

>de Rivera lives and takes control of Spain
>Codreanu lives and takes control of Romania
>Mussolini doesn't get imperial boners and allies with Greece, Spain, Portugal, Romania and influences Yugoslavia to a potentially more Fascist government
>Roman Alliance born
>France probably collapses
>Roman Alliance helps Action Française against the commies and they get control of the country
>Fascism is the hot new ideology nowadays
>UK gets swept in the influencial sphere of Fascism
>potential 3-way cold war or war against the USSR
A man can dream

easily could've done it before 36-ish. italy had a really good army built up before hitler even came to power, had one of the strongest naval fleets in the world rivaling even the UK, and wasn't damaged very much by the great depression.

>uk going fascist
>roman alliance
>france collapsing
HURRRR MURRR DURR HUE HUE HUE HUE

>italy
>really good army
>italys navy rivaling the uk
this is your brain on we wuz romans

>MURRR
Fuck off Grzegorz

SBREE BOPPA BREEE NRRRRRR

There was a chance for France to collapse in 1938-1939
The entire government was overrun by Communists and Socialists, Popular Front was the biggest movement in french elections.
In 1938 they were massively protesting against Munich agreement and demanded the government to help Republican Spain in their civil war, when Radical Party broke off from Popular Front and denied all demands, Popular front went berserk and started giant strikes, protests and some commies ever wanted to start a revolution until Radical government crushed them and fired 800,000 workers, destroying their union and later banning communism all together in 1939.

If they were more successful, France could collapse into civil war.

I wholeheartedly support the idea but realistically, I don't think there was any way for italy to successfully invade germany during the interwar period. Maybe they could convince France and Britain and the USSR to ally with them to defeat Germany, but Italy's notoriously terrible military could not beat the Wehrmacht alone.

Benito

>italian navy
>bad
>better gunnery than the brits
>battleship were more advanced and newer
>only advantage the brits had were pure number and the carrier

Italian navy was great, but the Regia Aeronautica was too full of itself to cooperate with the navy, leading to many ships being lost due to no air support.
Such cases happen with every army, just think of the Imperial Japanese Navy

yeah but after cape matadan the cooperation betwen the 2 corps greatly improved
the battle i just posted is the proof of it
Also 2nd for sirte(where the navy engaged the escort and the airforce the merchant)

The RM was fine in the traditional sense.

What they sorely lacked was the electrical advances (good search radar, radar fire control, etc,), and this was painfully on display.

He praised Stalin for turning the USSR into red fascism.

>He praised Stalin for turning the USSR into red fascism.

He also went to war with the USSR and allied with the Nazi's.

probably this

desu Operation Pedestal was strategic Axis defeat, since Anglos managed to deliver supplies to Malta