Is it correct/incorrect to say that east Asians can't innovate in comparison to the West?

Is it correct/incorrect to say that east Asians can't innovate in comparison to the West?

It's because of China that we have paper, gunpowder and the compass. No less PRINTING.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=tKp76r1A4dw
unz.com/jthompson/asians-bright-but-not-curious/
drive.google.com/file/d/0B3c4TxciNeJZSWhibVFicmFrNU0/view
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

You can make an invention, but it doesn't matter much if nobody uses it or improves on it.

Also, its worth noting that a lack of manpower or manpower being expensive drove an incredible number of inventions, which China normally didn't have issues with.

Asians being good at math is just a me-
>In linear algebra, Gaussian elimination (also known as row reduction) is an algorithm for solving systems of linear equations. It is usually understood as a sequence of operations performed on the corresponding matrix of coefficients.
>The method is named after Carl Friedrich Gauss (1777–1855), although it was known to Chinese mathematicians as early as 179 CE (see History section).

I'd say it's incorrect if you're talking racially. True if you're talking culturally.

It's both racially and culturally

East Asians edge Westerners out in sharpness
Westerners edge East Asians out in innovation

Europeans didn't really improve on gunpowder more so than expand upon its uses.

asians both from their and the diaspora are innovative as duck in environments/scenarios that are open to it.

>innovative as duck
Dumb phoneposter.

smokeless powder is a massive improvement

This has never been the case. Even in their creative prime China, the most populated nation in history, has never demonstrated innovation compared to the West, namely Europe and North America.

>east Asians can't innovate in comparison to the West
This is true, even the Mongol Empire was built with technology adopted from Indo-Europeans.

/pol/ memes aside, the west set itself apart certainly in the 17th century, exemplified I think by the pendulum clock based on the studies by Galileo, though also a wide number of different things culminating in the "miner's friend" steam engine.

Here an abstract property of the universe was taken and applied to a tool, this had been done in an ad-hoc manner arguably since the middle ages.

The Chinse were perfectly capable of doing the same, but for whatever reason it did not match the scale of Europe.

This has already been answered.

What is the q Index?

Curiosity quotient

I'm surprised that no SJWs have attacked this topic yet.

chinks BTFO

They do. Wewuzzing. Islamic golden age™. Everything was invented by China™. Blowing minor achievements like Tenochtitlan's dykes out of proportion.

It's literal genetics that Asians can't innovate as well as westerners. No this isn't racist it's just what science has uncovered. Your chart is sourced from that very same study.

>Europeans didn't really improve on gunpowder
Chinks didn't have archebuses or ships with canons until the Portuguese introduce them in east asia. In fact the Japanese were crushing on land the Chinese and Korean army with obsolete Portuguese weapons. Chinks are a meme

>Europeans didn't really improve on gunpowder more so than expand upon its uses.
do chingchongs actually believe this crap

The west is where it is because of China you mong

China is where it is because of the west you mong.

right, because the chingchongs invented poudre b all along.
kys

Not talking about modern times

Disregard history if you want

>Chinks didn't have archebuses or ships with canons until the Portuguese introduce them in east asia.
Actually they did. The Chinese have been using artillery on ships even during the catapult/ballista days considering most Chink naval combat involved amphibious operations along the rivers and coasts so putting cannons on ship was the next logical thing.

In fact, The Battle of Tunmen was between Chinese ships armed with the old cannons versus the Portuguese and managed to win. It was when they captured Portuguese artillery in that particular battle that they started copying it, specifically Breech-Loaders which they found fascinating.

>the west didn't imrove gunpowder
>french invent smokeless powder
>w-well that doesn't count because the west wouldn't be where it is because of china
lol okay wang

You don't think the massive improvements in gun technology that happened after Europeans got gunpowder are improvements?
A gun from 1500 and a gun from 1900 are insanely different.

>"china d-did everything cus of four great invention"
>"west be nowhere without them"

>Amerindian supporting is now SJW antics
Hmmm...

Do you realise that carabels are tiny and for fast travel? Of course it lost against a fucking convoy. A Spanish Galleon would have buttfuck the entire chink fleet though

Why is she making that face?

Caravels still had more "modern" cannons than a war junk of the time. When they lost, now the Chinese had modern cannons. The Ming Dynasty was even more adventurous than the west in experimenting with breech-loading design since they gave their heaviest guns that particular configuration while in the west the breech loading was limited to swivel-guns, falconets, or lighter field artillery.

>A Spanish Galleon would have buttfuck the entire chink fleet though
The Spanish do not share your confidence then. For much of the 1500s til the early 1600s the annual Spanish Galleon from acapulco approached their Philippine colonies from the west, through the Visayas islands, and coasting around til they reached the main colonies in Cebu and Manila. Specifically to avoid Wako pirates.

Also ironically, the Spanish colonial naval element in the Philippines during the 1500s and 1600s contained Chinese junks and Wugongchuan (A Chinese copy of the European Galley) flying Habsburg colors, manned by ex-pirate Chinese or converted Chinese immigrants living in the Philippines.

I studied early colonial Flip history. Believe me: Spain didn't have quite a good time early during Colonial Philippines. Its partly the reason why local Flip culture survived unlike in Latin America since they needed tonnes of willing cooperation from the locals to survive in a region infested by Chinese/Japanese Pirates, threats from the Shogunate (that were never realized), or the Muslim raiders from South of the Philippines.

>Caravels still had more "modern" cannons than a war junk of the time.
>Naval battles are just decided by canons and not crew size or how much could it endure volley shots
Caravels were not meant to fight.
>Also ironically, the Spanish colonial naval element in the Philippines during the 1500s and 1600s contained Chinese junks and Wugongchuan (A Chinese copy of the European Galley) flying Habsburg colors, manned by ex-pirate Chinese or converted Chinese immigrants living in the Philippines.
Spain was to busy to give a shit about the Phillipines when they had their hands full with the Ottomans and the Dutch. Manilla didn't start producing Galleons until much later,which could BTFO all the Chinese fleet btw, and it barely had 2000 Spaniards at the end of the XVI century

Fascinating stuff, Portuguese haven't had a MASSIVE place in history directly like other European countries, but they were in a shitload of places before anyone else. I can't imagine what it'd be like to make contact with say, Japan at that time.

>Caravels were not meant to fight.
Lol tell that to spastic Portuguese nationalists online.
>A Spanish Galleon would have buttfuck the entire chink fleet though
>Spain was to busy to give a shit about the Phillipines
>Spics built their rule in the Philippines for much of that time.
Stop eating your own words, lol.

Also Manila never produced galleons in large numbers at all. It took years to make one there. It was a trading hub, not a large shipbuilding hub. Though the presence of Spanish and Chinese shipbuilders and Native Filipino Boatwrights meant they were able to make both European and Local lighter craft like Native Flip Boats, Galleys, and Junks.

By the time you're referring to the Qing ended the pirate threat from Zheng's remnants in Taiwan. However Spain still suffered raids from the Moros in the South.

you can support them all you want, but they were hardly technologically superior

How easy to compare:
People who created civilization from 0:
>Asians
>Arabs/semites
>Black people
>Native americans
"Peeople" who didn't create civilization from 0:
>white "peeople"

And yet "white people" have still done most for the world

>blacks
>civilisation
Pick one

Is there any actual proof that Asians can't innovate as well as whites

They CAN innovate (China has a space station and is testing EM drives FFS - nevermind Japan's robotics and electronics industry constantly coming up with shit we only dream of)...

However...

In the past, they were culturally discouraged from innovation, while Europe, more or less, encouraged it - and that's all it takes to hit the Renaissance and Industrial Revolution first - and that snowballs into a winner-takes-all game.

youtube.com/watch?v=tKp76r1A4dw

For half a millennia or so, at least. Eventually, these little yellow bastards adapt.

Zero

Ummm, yes. The OP's graph is directly from a study regarding it.

Furthermore, you don't even need genetic proof to acknowledge that Europe and North America has dominated the sciences and other such contributions. Far more than the East.

Really, is enough proof as it is.

>Eventually, these little yellow bastards adapt.

It only takes more than a billion of them to do so. Also why have they won so few Nobel prizes? Whites are better at abstract thinking. Asians are overachievers.

East and West compliment each other quite well.

They didn't = they can't. Entirely different culture and entirely different circumstances. Like says, they sure are catching up fast.

May turn out they can do it better.

>May turn out they can do it better.

This is already the case. Only they still lack in creative thinking. This is still evident in the 21st century.

Eh, Whites invent the shit, Asians perfect the shit.

They both do something better than the other.

China only recently embraced capitalism, while Japan and South Korea have had less than half the time to gather Nobel prizes.

We just got lucky with the black plague coupling with banking, creating all that wealth concentration, and invented inventing things first - then promptly bowled everyone else over.

>We just got lucky with the black plague coupling with banking, creating all that wealth concentration, and invented inventing things first - then promptly bowled everyone else over.

Oh. You're one of -those- people. Consider yourself dismissed.

China in its prime didn't accomplish nearly as much as Europe did when it was in its hellhole state.

Are you sure you're not some biased maggot?

China, in its prime, had a culture entirely set against innovation of any sort. Still managed to nearly invent everything Europe had by the Renaissance (half of which we borrowed from them), but as the religion of the land was basically "STAY IN YOUR HOLE" no one ever put it together the way we did.

If Europe had embraced taoism and the like, instead of mercantilism, then we would have stagnated just as nicely.

Oh god, your history is absolutely horrendous. Why are you even here.

>Still managed to nearly invent everything Europe had by the Renaissance (half of which we borrowed from them)

Make an argument against it then.

Paper Making 105 A.C.
Movable Type Printing 960-1279 AD.
Gunpowder 1000 A.D.
Compass 1100 A.D.
Alcohol 2000 BC-1600 BC.
Mechanical Clock 725 A.D.
Tea Production 2,737 BC.
Silk 6,000 years ago.

Need I go on?

...

That's such a small portion compared to Nobody is saying mongoloids aren't creative or inventive, but they're clearly nowhere near the scale of what the West accomplished.

That's nice - all of that is AFTER the Industrial Revolution (let alone the Renaissance.) And before we start including the Greeks or Rome in Europe - remember we lost a good chunk of what they had.

We reached the Industrial Revolution first, due to having the superior culture to that end, after that, it's game over for anyone who hasn't already had it.

Not very compelling, user. Whites were ahead post-Renaissance and during Antiquity. For such a small landmass of the greater Eurasian continent and within such a small timeframe, whites have been responsible for most of scientific progress.

From your posts I'm gathering that you feel threatened by this?

That's barely anything

Whites are still the most innovative peoples as of 2017

>chinks getting thrown the fuck out

>Not very compelling, user. Whites were ahead post-Renaissance and during Antiquity. For such a small landmass of the greater Eurasian continent and within such a small timeframe, whites have been responsible for most of scientific progress.
Post-Renaissance, yes, but that was the tipping point. When we started mass distribution of knowledge and shit just snowballed due to the introduction and useful application of a few devices (mostly the printing press and the loom), devices that the Chinese had centuries before us, but their general populous would never dare to apply in such a way due to their religious prohibition against personal advancement outside one's station. Basically, it's when we invented inventing, and synergistically exploded our technological advancement. There's no way for a civilization without that outlook to catch up.

>From your posts I'm gathering that you feel threatened by this?
If you can provide me convincing evidence that Europe was ahead in Antiquity (and not wewuz into Rome or Greece), I'd buy it.

I'm already saying we had the superior culture. What worries me now is that they are adapting it.

That's everything you need for a renaissance.

The written word may not seem like much, but I bet the first civilization that invented it thought everyone else was a uncreative backwards dullard and got full of themselves too.

Europe *was* ahead in Antiquity. That doesn't account for much in the grand scheme of things. Maybe in accomplishment, sure, but it was such a short amount of time. A thousand years back then was a hundred years for us.

Not only is Asian culture restricting in creative thinking, but recent studies are highly indicative that it's also genetics that prevent them from thinking in abstracts.

Again, evidence. Assuming Antiquity means maybe 1000BC to 476AD, SFAIK Europe proper was pretty barbaric compared to the empires to the south and China, which was on with them par in most ways.

>recent studies are highly indicative that it's also genetics
Could be - but I'd have to see some non-/pol/ level studies, preferably done by asians.

Seems, if a region manages to invent all the same shit you do, up to a point, then falls forever behind when you arrange it in such a way as to exponentially increase your knowledge base in less than a generation, something more than genetics is involved.

>preferably done by asians.

Funny you should mention that, one of the three universities conducting the research is located in Japan. I could post you the document, if you want.

Please do, I r interested.

>unz.com/jthompson/asians-bright-but-not-curious/
Kenya Kura, one of the researchers located in Japan voiced her opinions at various points in the comment section.
>drive.google.com/file/d/0B3c4TxciNeJZSWhibVFicmFrNU0/view
The document itself.

Enjoy!

Because joining academia isn't really encouraged in Asia (and in America with the tax change America as well).

>Asians literally can't think dynamic like whites

This. Is. Fucking. GOLD.

Nobel prize is a complete meme because so many fiekds are excluded from it, The peace prize is a joke and politics plays a big part into it (and in economics changes in the field often kinda make some peoples prizes kinda not worthy).

Ok sure buddy

You're a biased and utter moron if you sincerely think the West wasn't ahead in Antiquity.

>easy enough to sum up if you don't worry about complications

P O P S C I
O
P
S
C
I

>China
>1.5 BILLION people
>4000 years of history
>only thing they managed to create is muh compass
That's actually pretty fucking pathetic.

This. Peace and literature prizes are a joke, based on political allegiance rather than merit. OBAMA won the peace prize for fuck's sake.
Meanwhile mathematics were excluded from Nobel prizes because Alfred Nobel was butthurt about getting literally cucked by a mathematician, not even kidding.

>OBAMA won the peace prize for fuck's sake.
For good reason, as much as I hate the man.

>Alfred Nobel was butthurt about getting literally cucked by a mathematician
One of the most common -and unfounded- reasons as to why Nobel decided against a Nobel prize in math is that a woman he proposed to/his wife/his mistress rejected him because of/cheated him with a famous mathematician. Gosta Mittag-Leffler is often claimed to be the guilty party, wrongly.


There is no historical evidence to support the story. Mr. Nobel was never married.
There are more credible reasons as to why there is no Nobel prize in math. Chiefly among them is simply the fact he didn't care much for mathematics, and that it was not considered a practical science from which humanity could benefit (a chief purpose for creating the Nobel Foundation).

So no, you're flat-out, plainly and evidently wrong.

The Peace Prize is what they give to people in an effort to prevent them from starting further shit.

This is why they gave it to Henry Kissinger and Yasser Arafat.

Alchohol

But they can't imbibe in it well enough, now can they? huehuehue

The only thing of any relevance there, given the premise discussed, is the genetic component, but the document it links to doesn't mention it all.

I'd have to track down where that table actually came from, then check research on "DRD4 7-repeat, 5HTTLPR long allele, and OPRM1", and see how good they actually are as genetic predictors of "creativity" - something so amorphous I kinda doubt we have a real good gauge.

The lack of Nobel prizes and the like isn't a surprise, given that it's a European contest, that most of those nations have only had any chance to compete in for less than half the time. Japan really only broke its cultural mold in the 70's, Korea even more recently, and China even more recently still (and still hasn't done so entirely, despite already leapfrogging us in some areas of research - if mostly due to a lack of ethics).

I'm willing to entertain the idea that there's a genetic component, but given all the factors involved, it seems it's much more heavily weighted towards being a cultural one. Ya underestimate those yellow folk at your own peril - just listen to how often Trump goes on about them.

>The lack of Nobel prizes and the like isn't a surprise, given that it's a European contest

How disrespectful.

You sound desperately in-search of something to counteract the assumption that East Asians can't innovate.

If that document isn't enough proof for you, something done by actual professionals, I can only assume you feel threatened by the prospect.

>The only thing of any relevance there, given the premise discussed, is the genetic component, but the document it links to doesn't mention it all.
It's towards the end of the document, but yes, it doesn't go into detail, and the reasoning they do give is completely circular. (ie. "Azianz got almost no Nobel prizes, and lack these genetic markers, thus these genetic markers determine creativity!")

I'm sure there's more to it than that, but it's all they give there.

Also, yes, it's an American study that happened to involve some Asian students, so... Kinda need something similar from that culture's perspective.

>It's because of China that we have paper, gunpowder and the compass. No less PRINTING.

And i could name hundred other things the West invented

From transitor, electry... to Internet

I can find research showing that Jews aren't human and the world is flat done by professionals - trick is to separate shit and biased research from actual research. The document also ignores all factors of culture and history in favor of its premise, and kinda rests on the idea that Nobel prizes are the gauge of non-European creativity. Given everything involved, I'm rather surprised to find that the East has generated as many prizes as it has, even if they are putting up space stations and building super-sonic subs now.

Alfred Nobel didn't have a wife

So the lack of creativity in Asians is both innate and cultural. Interesting.

I don't think it's biased. One of the three universities is Japanese.
I think they're on to something really serious that the Chinese have already dotted on.

Overall, even if whites are bigger contributors than Asians by such a massive amount...
...The East will always be ready to improve upon their findings by good margin.

This document just reinforced by already firm opinion that the east and west compliments each other profoundly.

>China, in its prime, had a culture entirely set against innovation of any sort.
The state of Veeky Forums

If you consider either the Tang or the Song as China in its prime, then know it were the two dynasties that are famous for having the Ministry of Works give money grants to people to foster innovation in production, usually in agriculture and engineering.

All cultures are equal in the goal of being a Nobel laureate. There is no bias. Asia has as much chance as Europe or America.

China, with such a higher number of brilliant people, should be swarming with such honors. But this just isn't the case.

You can't make up an excuse for this, especially since the Nobel prize awards are a very recent thing.

It's all about contribution, and the East just hasn't pulled its weight. They can improve, but they just don't produce.

>All cultures are equal in the goal of being a Nobel laureate.
No they aren't - not so much because the Nobel prize commission was or is biased and lacks access to them (both of which are probably truer the further back you go), but because different cultures hold such prizes in different regards. Some cultures are simply more apt to produce the sort of people who could qualify them.

Granted, the same chart says that the most non-European/American nobel prizes come from Asia, so it kinda defeats its own premise. Asia has more of those western prizes than anyone else outside of the west, more than double than the next two regions below them combined, even if they have far fewer than the west that grants that prize, and has been doing so for longer than most of the nations in question have been industrialized.

and yet they can teleport photons to satelites 500 kilometers away, lead us in genetic research, and have quantum computers

Obama bombed more people then bush. The Burma woman in power is completely complicit in the Burma purges of minorities

Leaving aside the fact that it's the exception to the rule, that probably lead to them inventing so many keystone devices first, those same governments are famous for making sure folks stayed in their place - not just individuals, but family. China never had the sort of shit you saw after the black death in Europe, where people were literally buying their way into the nobility. Not only would the government prevent it, but the culture was based on the premise that following our family's profession and staying inside your box was your ultimate goal in life, and the path to ultimate happiness... As opposed to Europe where the grass was always greener on the other side no matter what level you were at. Thus there's no room for the sort of cross-disciplines that were so crucial to Europe's ascension.

Why is this even being argued.

It's common sense that whites do more than Asians. This isn't racist it's just common knowledge.

Even Japan acknowledges the scientific superiority of the west.

>different cultures hold such prizes in different regards
Asians are overachievers as a point
>Some cultures are simply more apt to produce the sort of people who could qualify them.
Yeah, Asians. They ace the best as students. That's a fact.

The whole point of the document is asking the very obvious question of why asians don't dominate in the sciences despite their higher intelligences.