can someone give me the redpill on this stuff?
I usually get mixed things from Ancient Greek sources. There are some lines that hint gayness in the Symposium for example but not how we would imagine it. Almost all Philosophers were against Homosexuality.
Was a pederastic relationship like a mentorship or not?
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Philosophers were just jealous no boi would give them their bussy.
Fucking men was manly, fucking woman was normal, getting fucked by man was a huge humiliation
Romans fucked dudes all the time but they always mocked Caesar by calling him Queen of Bythynia, implying he got fucked by the king
Philosophers got the most boipucci rho
it was part of an idea of education for the greeks, in Plato's symposium you can even read Alcibiade bitching about Socrates being frigid with him while he was is tutor. The idea is that a young adolescent is to try to impress is tutor and to be noticed and perhaps the old perv will do the fucking with him, however as you grow older and gain importance in the πόλις it is considered quite distasteful to keep taking it up your ass, you're supposed to fuck dude now.
This is what's debatable now. It might just be a meme as forms of affection differ widely among different cultures. For example, in Arab culture its normal for male friends to hold hands.
If they flat out had sex, that'd be pretty homosexual but are we sure that's what it is?
op is a faggot
I know socrates and I think plato had a hard on for youthful boys 16-19 years old, I think plato might've written something about socrates being grumpy he couldn't woo any young boys to have sex with. I'm not sure how accurate that is considering socrates never wrote anything about himself and all the record keeping was left up to his students, but all that being said it would be hard to find any place in pre-christian or muslim europe that didn't have a fairly large portion of people who performed gay sex, though how open people were about it varied. I know the roman men got it on with just about any slave they owned including chilluns and men, but it was considered to be dishonorable to be made to have sex in the position of a woman (that meaning being mounted and fucked by a dude).
Of the hundreds of thousands of classical era pots, vases, plates, bowls etc etc that have been found, all of ~40 have scenes that are or might be gay. And yet these same handful are the ones we see, over and over again, as "proof" that the Greeks were a homo civilization. Can you imagine how gay future civilization will think we were, based on the amount of homo art WE produce?
>I usually get mixed things from Ancient Greek sources.
You just redpilled yourself
Ancient Greeks were conflicted about it. Some loved it, others hated it, so they discussed it often
as often with artifacts we don't always have the context. If 10,000 years from now archeologists dig up a gay bar they might think our society was completely open and tolerant of homosexuality not being aware of the concept of forced conversion that Pence supports
It seems similar to modern Pashtun culture.
I had a friend who served in Afghanistan. He told me he observed fellow Taliban getting it on with some regularity (man-love Thursdays is not a myth). When they'd get captured Taliban cell phones (cell phone infrastructure in Afghanistan is surprisingly good since 2001, everyone has one) they were FULL of gay pornography, with guy on guy porn being the definite majority. Even the few straight clips were nearly always anal. And of course the Afghan practice of bacha bazi ("playing with boys") is alive and well, despite sporadic attempts to stamp it out.
Technically, homosexuality is illegal in Afghanistan and punishable by death - but the Pashtuns define homosexuality rather differently than we do. I've heard multiple justifications, but probably the best was this one; "It's not gay because we don't live together." Understandably confused I my friend what that meant. Apparently it's OK to link up and bang the daylights out of each other every Thursday, but actually living together would make you man and wife, and that's totally gay, especially if you love each other romantically and enjoy each others' company in a non-platonic context. If someone falls afoul of the arcane Pashtun boundaries for what is gay and what isn't they'll gleefully stone them to death without seeing any contradiction.
As with many things, it depends on where you are in the Hellenic world. In Thebes, for example, molesting children was a local pastime. In 5th/4th c. Sparta, though, child fucking was verboten. So, things differed significantly depending on the city.
For primary sources on the above claims, see Plato and Xenophon.death to all Thebans.
>For example, in Arab culture its normal for male friends to hold hands.
Hahaha fucking sandfaggots
why does that boy have breasts?
Handholding is really nice, it's our culture that sucks
Ads long as you say no homo and don't look eachother in the eyes its all g.
>Almost all Philosophers were against Homosexuality.
News to me - and I teach this shit.
A lot of Greek philosophers claimed there could be no true love between man and woman, and that only love between men could be a thing of uplifting spiritual beauty and mutual understanding. (aka. "Women are for plebs.")
Granted, there were plenty of philosophers prothletising against desires of the flesh in general, and a tiny handful that went the other way.
>love = sex
You must not be a very good teacher. Do you also have sex with your family members?
They probably were against homosexuality for the same reason people today are against homosexuality.
The heterosexual bond is infused with sacredness, through culture, religion and social mores, and then its opposite becomes profane axiomatically.
Like someone said, it depended on the city state. They were not really homogeneous.
As for the philosophers: if homosexuality is defined by "attraction to someone of the same gender", they were OK with it. But having sex with someone from the same gender was not. The Greek philosophers prized independence of the pleasures of the flesh and the reign of reason (including Epicurus). Homosexual sex acts are by their nature solely hedonistic, since they are sterile.
Yes.
Then you should know that for them, real love was supposed to be chaste.
I recall once hearing something about that being common in England before Oscar Wilde went to trial and a stigma was attached to it. Don't know how widespread that was though.
I think there was fuck all to do back then compared to modern day society, one can equally entertain oneself with slightly less degenerency as there's only so many hours in the day and boipuc is lower down on the list then say vidya, smoking pot, career, research, whatever.
Alcibiades was the biggest drama queen in Greek history, and that's saying something.
4 u
What percentage of Greek youths would be the subjects of pederasty? It does seem a bit absurd for this to be a majority thing.
lol pedes
So was Allen Ginsberg right?
Philosophers were against carnal pleasures and sexual hedonism in general, not just homosexuality.
Pashtuns aren't homosexual, it's those Tajik shits and especially urbanite (Kabul and Mazare Sharif) Tajik shits who created bacha bazi.
Tajiks think the Pashtuns are flaming fairies, and a famous Afghan joke goes; "when birds fly over Kandahar they do it on one wing, with the other covering their ass."
Kek
Cool story Khoram.
Why do people keep talking about 'digging up' our society in the future. Do any of you fuckers know what the internet is? Everything is documented, stored, repeated, and backed up in a million ways. We preserve even the most useless fucking knowledge including minute detail about the toys that came in cereal boxes 30 years ago. There is already so much information the challenge to a future society would be to sort through wikipedia's 10 trillion articles and the gorrilions of social media posts.
And if all power dies that's gone for good. It only takes one worldwide incident for all digital records to completely wipe.
>he thinks the internet is eternal and everything recorded on it is there forever
Data retention and integrity on hard disks over the years is not infallible nor unlimited. Data gets corrupted, hard drives fail, hard drives get exposed to physical damage etc etc. and it's a complete falsehood to think everything is being 'backed up' and updated to the new standards for reading it. Just think of floppy discs - how many computers have one of those nowadays? All lost information which will degrade over time until even re-invented readers can't read them.
Yes they fucked men in a form of erotic love
No homosexuality didn't exist in its modern conceptionc
And what information is on floppy disks that isn't stored in some more current form?
xkcd.com
Digital data storage methods change mediums ridiculously fast compared to anything else before it. Even things as simple as old programming languages are reaching the point where a lot of old code is really difficult to maintain because there's so few people who understand it.
For file formats and storage, forward compatibility of things is a huge issue, and even with a concerted effort to convert everything forward, you're going to lose information over time. That, and digital storage methods are surprisingly flimsy. Many data storage methods degrade over time. It honestly wouldn't be all that surprising if this era becomes known as a "dark age" in the far future due to all the digital record keeping not being accessible anymore.