Can we finally fucking settle on the best mucsle mass routine? What the hell is it? I know it won't be an exact routine...

I do come across as the tough guy, the alpha male.

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

...

The original quote at the very beginning:

youtube.com/watch?v=u43MvBfZTGI

A routine that revolves around heavy compound lifts in the 3-6 rep range, but with accessory lifts in the 8-12 rep range.

Honestly it doesn't matter.

Just hit all the muscle groups 2x a week. And hit them hard. And from several angles.

Change things up. Take chest for example. You want to bench. And you want to bench heavy. 3 sets 3-5 reps. Then you want to do some hypertrophy work. Say incline dumbbell bench 3x8-12. Then follow that up all that pushing with a squeezing movement. Say cable flies.

PHAT operates on this principle. Bretty good routine for people past linear progression.

We already have, assuming you're natty:

>PPL with abs on first P and sprints after legs
>start with two or three compunds 5x5 and 3x8-12 to start
>dead on pull day
>finish up with ~4 sets of 8-12 isolations
>500 kcal surplus and 1g protein per lb bodyweight

There, embrace lean mass.

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

Mass made simple by Dan John

Heavy Benching, One arm press, high-rep Back squats, barbell complexes

Sounds like a powershitter program desu.

amazon.com/Mass-Simple-Six-Week-Journey-Bulking/dp/1931046026

What works for me:

ABXabXX

A-Heavy push. Includes bench, OHP, squat, log press, DB press, etc. Rep 3-5
B-Heavy pull. Bent over rows, deads, shrugs, farm walks, cleans. Rep 3-5

a-Push hypertrophy. Helps keep endurance. Usually start with OHP 5X5 because right now I have weak shoulders. Then I do shit like bench 10x10, front squats 5X10, etc

b-Hypertrophy pull. Hopefully you're catching on.

Been working great. Body fat stays relatively the same but muscle mass has been a steady growth over the last 6 months. Deadlift went from 405 to 455 in 2 months. Probably could've been sooner but I don't max that often.

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

The 8 day serratus posterior workout

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

GAINS FOKKING KITCHEN

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

GAINS FOKKING KITCHEN

/thread

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male.

GAINS FOKKING KITCHEN

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

Is pic related even relevant anymore? I was going to start doing beginning hypertrophy but it seems like its missing something

>I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male
I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

sorry, beginning aesthetics not beginning hypertrophy

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

>Progressive overload
>hit each muscle 2x a week
>food

that will get you far.

>hypertrophy
>aesthetics
>mass
>strength

these are all the same thing for you average natty lifter. Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be.
>genetics
>diet
>stimulus to grow in size and strength

what stimulus it is doesn't matter as much as you think or diet and genetics

As a natty you have to get stronger every week, no way around it

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

Westside for Skinny Bastards

I don't come across as the tough guy, the Alpha male

I COME ACROSS AS A TOUGH GUY, THE ALPHA MALE

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male.

Food

>no sheiko

We are getting there. Give it a year or two before the SS circle-jerk has completely died and you will start seeing some other routines posted here.

Sheiko is a terrible routine for anyone that isn't a competing powerlifter.

You know that you can add assistance to it after the main work, right? You realise that Boris Ivanovich actually encourages you to do more work, right?

>Give it a year or two before the SS circle-jerk has completely died

SS circlejerk has been around since the beginning of Veeky Forums, and will die with it

>but a general routine/ guidelines
Lift shit up
Put it back down

You can. Assuming you've got much left in the tank by that point.

But that doesn't change the fact it's a shitty routine for anyone whose goals aren't a big total at the expense of everything else.

train shit with frequency,volume and progressive shit and shit

Stay away from any one of these stupid "routines" by fat powerlifters like this don't train any rep ranges under 6 I don't give a fuck what science shit you have to prove hypertrophy happens in all rep ranges go suck a dick
only thing that should be low reps is your heavy set which should have a target of 6 reps but anything above 3 is good.
train everything no less than twice a week
eat juicy protein

stop looking for the "best muscle mass routine"
fagglet

Is a body like this possible natty?

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

instagram.com/doomz123/?hl=en
nope and he doesn't look that good from normal angles

Principles:
-focus on barbell compound movements
-aim to develop strength over time
-you need to increase volume and frequency over time to keep making progress

real principles
-disregard strength
-weight is not the end goal it is simply a tool to be used
-train the muscle to failure through a full range of movement, then after failure has been reached train through a limited range of movement
- high volume and high frequency
-high tension
-use unilateral movements instead of barbell movements

talking about training to get big here not training as a fucking powerdiddly

I haven't read any of the replies in this thread, but there is only 1 true answer to this question.
Consistency is key
CONSISTENCY
No program will blow you up muscle wise, there isn't any secret workouts, exercises, programs, no secrets anything (except sterons)
If you want to get big, you can do a fullbody, 2 split, 3 split, pull/push, 5 reps, 15 reps, amrap etc.
There are plenty of different ways to build muscle
But consistency, the willpower to keep going several days a week, for months and years, never taking breaks for more than 3 days, that is how you get big.

this honestly this
you can try make your workouts as structured and perfect as you want
but if you fail to keep training they were all for shit
just train as best as you can and stay consistent
shit takes time young blud

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

>BroScience: the post

i come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

GAINS FOKKING KITCHEN

Listen here you shit.

Do primarily major barbell lifts.
>deadlift
>squat
>bench
>press
>row
and weighted dips and chinups/pullups

Do each of them twice per week. (maybe a variation, like front squat or deficit deadlift)
Once "heavy" (i.e. 3-5 sets of 3-6 reps)
and once "medium/light" (i.e. 3-5 sets of 5-15 reps)

Heavy sets should be only quality reps, i.e. same speed, same form from the first warmup rep to the last work set rep.
Light sets with 10-15 reps can go to failure, i.e. you physically are unable to complete another rep. But don't have to.

Small muscles, like arms, shoulders, calves and abs can take a lot higher frequency than large muscles like back, legs, chest.
Which means you can do a few sets of isolation exercises pretty much every day you train, no matter if your base routine is "fullbody" or "upper/lower" or "push/pull" or whatever

Important is progression, i.e. every time you do an exercise, you should do a little bit more than the last time. Either more weight, more reps, more sets, doesn't matter.

How often you train is really up to your schedule and how long you want to spend in the gym.

A good starting point is 4 workouts per week, in an "Upper/Lower" split.
Monday: Lower - Deadlift
Deadlift 3x5
Front Squat 5x10
Abs, Calves, Arms

Tuesday: Upper - Press
Press 5x5
Barbell Row 3x5
incline bench 5x10
Abs, Calves, Arms

Thursday: Lower - Squat
Back Squat 3x5
Romanian Deadlift 5x10
Abs, Calves, Arms

Friday: Upper - Bench
Bench Press 5x5
weighted chinups 3x5
overhead press 5x10
Abs, Calves, Arms

If you want to train more often, you can take a few exercises from the upper body days and put them on an additional day.
The upper body can handle more volume and frequency than the lower body, which makes a LUxLUUx split a good option.
If you want to train even more, a PPLPPL (push/pull/legs) is probably a good option. But be aware that this requires a lot of food and sleep to be able to recover.

but in the end all that matters is this:

>the best program is one on which you progress
>the best program to progress is one which you stick to
>the best program to stick to one which you enjoy

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

>the guy who fucked me in the gym shower told me that higher reps means more hypertrophy and he must've been telling the truth

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

I've noticed that every physique I've seen that seems the most balanced in the CBT thread are all on a PPL

Why is this?

I assume you mean PPLPPLx

Probably because people that have time/dedication to go to the gym 6 times per week have also enough time to prepare their meals in detail, weight everything et cetera.

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male.

Yeah usually PPLPPLx or PPLxPPL

They all seem to have the best physique balance in both size and symmetry. I believe Rolan is even on a PPL

Best principles in order of importance for a natty:
* Consistency
* Progress
* High Frequency
* More volume over less
* Strength

These are true regardless if your goals are powerlifting or bodybuilding. Only worry about the next principle if you're already doing the first. You can't really worry about strength if you're not consistent and don't worry about volume if you're making progress etc.

If your program lacks any of these you'll never make it, and this doesn't even touch on the diet side of things.

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male.

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

Most important thing for a natty to make any kind of progress once they make it past a novice stage is consistency, then periodisation.

Progress is not a principle, it's a result. Frequency is not as relevant as you think it is, not everyone can do max effort squats or deadlifts twice a week.

is he natty?????

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

>can we finally fucking settle on the best mucsle mass routine?
no, we can't
>What the hell is it?
The one that gives you gains and you can stick with it for 20+ years.

>Most important thing for a natty to make any kind of progress

The thing with novices is that they will always make progress, regardless of their routine. It's just a matter of what's more efficient than the other.

>Frequency is not as relevant as you think it is, not everyone can do max effort squats or deadlifts twice a week.
No one said you have to do max effort on everything every workout. High frequency is generally always paired with daily undulating periodization.

>Progress is not a principle, it's a result.
Many things we list in this thread are results. I just listed them as principles because that's what you should focus on.

We all agree that if you're making progress you should not change what you're doing, so you can ask yourself two questions if we go back to bodybuilding vs powerlifting, why am I not getting bigger or why am I not getting stronger? Going through the list, you first start with:

* Consistency: If you're only lifting when you feel like it, maybe skipping a workout here and there, or even a whole week, this is the first thing you fix. It doesn't matter what routine you're doing if you're not willing to be in the gym at a consistent basis. This is true for everything you want to get good at in life.
* Progress: This is a result like you said, but there's no point going further down the list if we're making progress (at a reasonable rate), it's that simple. Maybe this should be #1 but it's hard to progress without consistency.
* High Frequency: Okay, you're not making progress, so you start to look at how many times per week you actually train your muscles. Protein synthesis aside, studies has shown that this is just the better way to train. This is also true for everything in life, the more you do it, the better you get.
* More Volume: This is below frequency because it's easier to just increase frequency and as a result the volume increases automatically. One should be careful of increasing both the volume and the frequency at the same time.
* Strength: This is also a result, not really a principle. But if you're training for 30 reps per set, you're probably not getting bigger, nor stronger, so this is why I included it in the bottom. If all of the above principles are met, strength and size should come anyway, but if they don't you might need to adjust your training to be more strength focused.

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

>I've noticed that every physique I've seen that seems the most balanced in the CBT thread are all on a PPL
surely not "every" physique, but you have to consider these two facts:
1. People who do (or should do) PPL are not novices, so they are further along in their training than people on novice routines
2. People who do PPL almost always train for aesthetics, which also means they aim to keep their bf% low and otherwise focus on building an aesthetic physique.

it shouldn't surprise anyone that intermediate+ lifters who focus on low bf% and aesthetics typically have the most aesthetic bodies. this doesn't necessarily mean that PPL is best for aesthetics. I think it's more about diet than anything. people on strength routines typically have higher bf% which makes them less aesethtic. not because the routine makes them fat, but because it's necessary for their goal.

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male

I come across as a tough guy, the alpha male.

Studies have also shown that muscles can take up to 3 to 4 days to recover for a natural lifter performing maximum effort movements. As Candito, a far more successful powerlifter than you or I puts it, the way Olympic lifters approach squatting intensity is completely alien to a powerlifter's approach, one is high frequency low intensity, the other is high intensity and low frequency.

Also the reason I singled out progress is because you're listing priorities that have to be checked off one by one, yet if progress is checked off you don't need to continue down the list, which is unlike any of the other things on your list. Remove progress and we get Consistency + Frequency + Volume + Strength Work = Progress.

Frequency, volume and intensity are all manipulated by periodization, a system for fatigue management that alternates between volume and high intensity training in order to increase work capacity while also building the lifter up to a peak. Examples like this include Ogus 7/5/3 or C6W, where the start of each program is the most taxing on the body, but then you back off for a week, bring up the weight and the program brings you to a peak in the final week or in the case of C6W the final two weeks.

You've got the right idea but some smart guys came up with it before you, named it and wrapped it up in a pretty package so all you have to do is open a spreadsheet punch in your rep maxes and you're good to go. The problem with increasing frequency alone is that you are extremely limited in the way you can do it and almost always sacrifice total training volume for it. The other problem is that most people use very high intensity on deadlifts and squats once a week and bumping that up to twice is literally double the work. Not a very easy thing to program around.

I come across as tough guy, the alpha male

God, I hate blahino

Yeah the list didn't make sense in that way, I guess.You could remove Strength & Progress from the list and it'd make more sense. You'd stop whenever you're making progress.

>As Candito, a far more successful powerlifter than you or I puts it, the way Olympic lifters approach squatting intensity is completely alien to a powerlifter's approach, one is high frequency low intensity, the other is high intensity and low frequency.

Well, this is true for the western style of training, but Sheiko for instance promotes high frequency, low intensity, high volume. Look at the world records that man has produced. He takes the olympic approach to powerlifting which obviously works wonders, albeit with some modifications. It seems to be a "superior" way to train.