Was Japan in the Moral right for Bombing Pearl Harbor? I mean what right did America had to tell them what to do...

I like the real life ending better.

>it's op is a faggot from /k/ who is looking for yous and didn't even finish reading the thread episode

stop making this thread you weeb

>Japan was merely seeking the Liberations of Asians oppress under the Western Jackboots
explain how invading China was liberating Asians under western oppression

/K/ has more history than Veeky Forums does.

>Moral right
Nice fucking spook

They liberated the chinese from their earthly bodies

There is nothing morally right about killing people.

Japan attacked the united states because they implemented an oil embargo.

>Japan attacked the united states because they implemented an oil embargo.
America had no right to embargo Japan

>You HAVE to sell me stuff, if you don't, you're evil and I have the right to kill you.
Do you listen to yourself?

nigger do you not understand how the economy works

...

America had no moral obligation to keep giving Japan oil. They didn’t like what Japan was doing, so they stopped giving them oil.
Japan, however, did have a moral duty to not commit mass rape and murder a la mongols, not create a system of coerced unwilling sex slaves, not conduct freakish and purposeless experiments on the enemy population for no reason, etc.

Fuck off, you slant-eyed fucker.

Can't tell if you're a troll or a tard.

Why did they declare on China at all lmao

Jesus Christ. We had the exact same thread like this back in /k/. OP, I hope you love having gaijin cock up your boi pussy for making another gay thread.

Read the Geneva convention

It reminds me of this German atlas from '39 posted recently by user
>The conflict with Japan led to the independence of Manchuria (1932) and Jehol (1934) from the Chinese state. Japan is planning a reorganisation and revitalisation of China, where progress has been hindered for 100 years. While the economic pressure of the western powers is slowly receding, a new destructive element is threatening the nation in the form of communism. The reorganisation of China is a matter of life or death for the Japanese. Because of this, Japan is stationing troops in China as a defense against communism, while simultaneously supporting the country's economic growth.

...

No, and the Greater Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere was just a fancy name for the Japanese Empire.
That said, Pearl Harbour was the best course of action for the Japanese Hawks to take, even if I wish that the military wasn't able to take so much power that it was able to dictate Japanese government policy. Shouwa was a mistake and their school uniforms are ugly.

Funnily enough, that's the exact same thing we kept telling japan while the sino-japanese war was going on.

Jesus fucking christ i can't believe someone drew this shit, its gotta be one of the cringiest things i've ever seen

>explain how invading China was liberating Asians under western oppression
It wasn't about liberating them from western oppression in this case, but rather stabilizing them. China was already a massive mess before the Japanese went in, with the Chinese civil war and it still was after they left when the Chinese factions went back to fighting each other. Not saying they were justified, or that there even was a justified side in this war.

>the killing of Chinese who were suspected of guerrilla activity to be perfectly legal and valid

Explain Nanjing. Please, go on. Explain away the literal piles of heads of civilians collected by Japanese officers larping as samurai murdering peasants. Explain the hundreds of thousands of dead civilians within the span of weeks. Explain the consistent and documented use of biological pathogens, torture, rape, and starvation as strategies to murder the Chinese wholesale.

You have no idea what the Sino-Japanese War was, and even less of an idea why America demanded that Japan stop trying to kill off an entire nation of people and invade anyone near them that even seemed weaker.

T-This is bait right? user can't actually be this deluded by his waifus that he actually believes this right?

>Explain Nanjing
Propaganda, just like "post-war German genocide."

It was documented. By JAPAN even. We have archives of Japanese photographers' work about it.

>Nanjing was legal because guerrilla suspects
By your logic the US should've carpet bombed Japan with nukes since all their civilians were receiving military training by 1945

The liberation of their lives from existence

What a nice people

That's wrong g

Uh, the reply to the OP is 100% correct.
The Great East Asian Co-prosperity sphere was nothing more than an attempt at creating autarky.

Invasion of China, 1937, nimrod.

At least try to be somewhat historical when posting on Veeky Forums
Take your weaboo Nippon pride elsewhere

>creating autarky
Did it work

>Japan was merely seeking the Liberations of Asians oppress under the Western Jackboots
By replacing them with their own jackboots.

This narrative of Japan wanting to free Asia from colonial oppression might look legitimate on the surface. However the Japanese considered and treated all other Asians as racially inferior. Had no tolerance for even the smallest bit of self determination. To top it all off they largely carried on with the same kind of resource exploitation with little infrastructure and developmental return the colonial powers did.

>Moral right
oh, sweetie..
Anyway, it was indisputably the correct decision to launch a preemptive strike against America, since they were guaranteed to attack eventually with Japan's national strategy of taking the south china sea. It should however have been larger scale, and frankly the Japanese should have just eaten China and been happy with it, that would have been a large enough influx of land, resources and manpower to satisfy their ambitions all on its own - not to mention the fact that the rest of asia was even less developed than China, they were already in for a huge pain in the ass developing that in to a productive territory, let alone all those jungle shitholes.

We decide which of your "rights" we'll respect...

The German Holocaust was arguably better for the jews than the Japs to Asia as at least the jews got a state out of it while the Japs just raped and pillaged and left everything in ruins.

...

Doesn't matter. They lost and burned in atomic fire.

Japan WAS carpet bombed like no one in history before...

>Explain away the literal piles of heads of civilians
Where?
>Explain the hundreds of thousands of dead civilians
Random numbers. Anyway when a war happens in a heavily populated area, well, there are heavy casualties and not all of them can be imputed to deliberate cruelty from (how convenient) one of the opponents.
>Explain the consistent and documented use of biological pathogens, torture, rape, and starvation as strategies to murder the Chinese wholesale.
Biological pathogens: anecdotal fact vastly exaggerated. Not cool, but not irrelevant.
Torture, rape: so uncommon in war time... Name an army that didn't commit it.
Starvation: the whole world was starving. Population density + fight intensity + no supplies for long time = heavy casualties. No need to plan anything.
Strategies to murder the population: welcome in the 40's, Japs and Germans were themselves meant to be murdered openly.

History is not black and white, it's a bit more nuanced. Japanese were not exactly humanists, but you can't paint them only based on inflated anecdotes.

Well played.

Lol morally right! Japan just wanted to liberate asia from the west, in order to bring it under japanese own rule.

Regardless it was stupid for japan to pick a fight with the USA and the UK. Consider the fact that these nation have better technology, significantly more manpower(in the case of the US ), far more resources and industrial capacity. They could produce far more tanks, planes, warships, guns and train more soldiers than japan could dream of.

Proofs besides infographic.

I'm sure the oil companies wanted to sell the oil, but the US government stood in their way using implied threats of force. That's not good.

top kek, is there a link to this atlas?

>Moral right

We can actually measure this; those nations in possession of colonies in East Asia acquired them in a time before International law. Expansion of said colonies was forbidden, and it was recognised that dominant power in the region had responsibility towards it.

Japan, in an act of undeclared war, and violating international treaties and all the code of conducts of war, conducted an active attempt at warmongering and murderous conquest cloaked in the flag of liberation. Whether the colonies had a right to existence is secondary; the primary is the Japan conducted itself as a rogue nation wishing to conquer others against the law of the times, and in so doing committed crimes against humanity and is therefore morally wrong.

In war we don't speak of moral.
respecting civilians is nice though

heh!

>Japan was a fascistic superpower and PH was dumb as shit above all, with 70 years late revenge as the only reason
>US shouldn't have nuked two cities full of civilians for the show of power

There, that's Pacific War for you.

If someone has it please post it. My google-fu is bad I can't seem to find it.

it's pretty clear who had the upper hand. Only a fool would fight with an enemy outpace you in almost everything.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_production_during_World_War_II

It's not online, it was from a thread involving a guy with a physical book. Here's the archive.

desuarchive.org/his/thread/3705547/#3705547

Japan was planning a reorganization and revitalization of China, where progress has been hindered for 100 years. While the economic pressure of the western powers is slowly receding, a new destructive element is threatening the nation in the form of communism. The reorganization of China is a matter of life or death for the Japanese. Because of this, Japan is stationing troops in China as a defense against communism, while simultaneously supporting the country's economic growth.

>japan was planning a reorginization and restructuring of china
Lmao you're retarded, they went into kwangtung. to protect the railroad and then ignited the 2nd sino-japanese war at marco polo bridge for shits and giggles
>defend against communism
Then they wouldn't have tried to start shit with the nationalist government after the first war.
>supporting the country's economic growth
All investments into chinese occupied territory was either railroads to move japanese soldiers around or camps to house japanese soldiers.

I think it's rather silly to complain about Japanese militarism when the central objective of any sovereign nation is the protection of it's own interests. Rather, anyone with even a smite of knowledge of Japanese history knows the gradual process from which the Japanese came to become hyper aggressive. It's more a case of monkey-see monkey-do then anything else.

Let's start things off with the country being forced to open itself up to trade with Perry's Expedition. Up until this point Japan had spent the last 300 years of Tokugawa rule to itself, with the occasional pirate raid on Chinese trade. Then they get a rude awakening from a foreign nation demanding open trade, the Shogunate concedes in the face of military superiority, the Emperor orders that the barbarians be expelled, certain radicals attempt to do so and the Western powers bombard Kagoshima for their audacity. The pro-imperial cliques then decide they need adopt western technology and techniques and do so in overthrowing the shogunate in the Meiji Restoration.

As they are introduced to the wider world, they quickly realise that in order to became a modern nation capable of resisting outside threats, they need resources. They also realise that all these western powers have essentially have colonised the entire region. The British in India and China, French in Vietnam, Netherlands in Indonesia, Spain/America in the Phillpines, and the encroaching Russians in the North.

Thus Japan with the advice of foreign military advisors decide to go after Korea, which is a Chinese tributary state, and manage to defeat the regional superpower, China. Immediately upon victory Germany, Russia, and France intervene and tell Japan to fuck off as they carve up pieces of China. Russia goes a step further and occupies Manchuria, builds a railway and a naval base in Port Arthur, and places large army on the border of Korea.

Japan understandably pissed, makes an alliance with Britain, where Britain will intervene on behalf of the Japanese if the Japanese ever face more then one western power. This allows the Japanese to go one-on-one with the Russians. Amazingly they defeat the Russians, however once again their victory is bitter as the Americans rush in to mediate the peace treaty, and determine that Japan only gets half the Sakhalin islands and Russia does not have to pay any war indeminities. And that Manchuria is also going to go back to China. The British then politely inform the Japanese that the Americans are an exception to the alliance.

Following this as part of the negotiations for the Washington Naval treaty, the Anglo-Japanese alliance is forced to be scrapped, and Japan only gets 60% of the Naval tonnage as the USN, despite it's belief that 70% was necessary for defence.

Japan was a mostly democratic state at this point, but over the decades the numerous military victories of the Japanese contrasted heavily with the "weak willed" Politicians that kept selling the Japanese short. In the 1920-30s militarism increased rampantly due to the humiliation suffered in these instances, much like Italy after it did not get what it was promised after WWI.

this is what weeb cartoons do to you, maybe this was japans plan all along.

>IJA
>cant even completely defeat the Chinese
>in the middle of a civil war

literally Italy tier

>"stop invading China"
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEE IMPOSSIBURU MUH TEITOKUUUU MUST BE BIGGER GIBE ASIA
>*loses war*

>have a crippling oil embargo imposed
>get into a global war

what did they mean by this?

>Invade China and brutally massacre Chinese people
>"Stop doing that or I'll stop selling our oil to your country"
>REEEE IT'S UNFAIR AND UNREASONABLE DEMAND
>*bombs pearl harbor"
>*gets nuked twice*

They fought in self defense?

A complete inaccurate statement

Oooh so how did this manga depicted the rape of nanjing? Or the bataan death march? A foot tickle?

>Oooh so how did this manga depicted the rape of nanjing? Or the bataan death march? A foot tickle?
Never happened user. Stop believing Gaijin propaganda.

Oh god why. Is this like a pro weeb parody of that battleship Archery schoolgirl thing that comes on my Italian made radio?

if you're going to criticize the US from a libertarian/pro-free market perspective then you should at least acknowledge that the Japanese Empire goes against your beliefs much further

why did they give the westerner squinty eyes

this isnt right

You know how I feel.

>self defense
>ww2 japan
Hitlers final solution was also self defense

Is this kancolle?

That's the army. The IJN dindu nuffin.
I'm just waiting on the next volume to see that smug smile wiped off Fubuki's face at Guadalcanal.

>I'm just waiting on the next volume to see that smug smile wiped off Fubuki's face at Guadalcanal.
>TFW you will never see the Battle of Samar in the next volume

>I'm just waiting on the next volume to see that smug smile wiped off Fubuki's face at Guadalcanal.

pill me on this manga. Is it self aware? Or is this played seriously? Does the mangaka actually believe this or is it just some poorly executed commentary about Japans unwillingness to aknowledge Nanking?

It's more of a historical retelling of the pacific war. Conveniently leaves out Nanking as expected. I think in the first two volumes Japan is depicted as the victim on purpose to show the attitude of the average civilian being influenced by propaganda. Fubuki specifically is suppose to be the average soldier thinking everything Japan is doing is great. I think it's self aware in that there's character pointing out how much of a disadvantage Japan is at despite the early victories. It's sets up the gradual slide into despair after Midway into Guadalcanal.
There's also a lot of maps and information. My major gripes with it is that I heard some of the statistics are inaccurate because they're taken Japanese textbooks and the US ships are portrayed with no personality.
Maybe soon, there's already 5 volumes and he's up to the end of 1943 so next will probably be the Philippine Sea with Leyte after.

Thanks for clearing that up, it seemed almost to delusional.

>My major gripes with it is that I heard some of the statistics are inaccurate because they're taken Japanese textbooks
As a person who studied and lived in Japan as a child, your gripes are warranted. The average student would lie somewhere in between. Japanese primary and secondary education puts very little emphasis on modern history, especially around Meiji Restoration, and during and after WWII. Every year, they start in Jyomon period, a prehistoric period of 14,000 – 300 BC, and coverage ends around 1900 and the students are told to read the textbook for the rest of the history and would not be tested. This is done intentionally to not let public form intelligent opinions on the Nation’s previous policies leading up to WWII and also to not let it influence current policy (possibly leading up to WWIII). Similarly, a strict policy of non-education in practical English is enforced although schoolchildren are nominally taught at least five years if not eight years at primary and secondary levels, and usually more at postsecondary levels. This is why when travelers visit Japan outside of metropolitan areas, they cannot find English speakers. As a policy, this is done to restrict general public access to foreign media and publication as its source of daily information and combined with a very strict (but covert and subtle) censorship and (covert) propaganda programme, Japanese (majority) public opinion is manipulated to align with its policymakers. The policymakers form a large cartel with the conglomerates, the politicians, and the international capital ring to arbitrage the unwitting Japanese public. That is how Japan works, and that is why the public attention is steered away from Pearl Harbor. The same group of people who caused it still are in control if ever subtly.

>and the US ships are portrayed with no personality.
Pretty sure he rectifies this on the third and fourth books.

>Japan was merely seeking the Liberations of Asians

Thank you, this has been a crap day and I needed that!

The Post war German genocide was a thing. Holy shit did the Soviets propaganda you that hard?

I mean without the Japs invading China China would probably have not turned out like it did, and going Communist got them a lot of help from the USSR, which the Western powers were obviously not willing to give to the Nationalists.
So in the end you could say the Nip invasion went a long ways to making the Communists the rulers of China.

That's pretty damn interesting.

Yup. You also grow to despise Japan and the Japanese as a whole the longer you live in it.

As I understand it, the zaibatsu, the military, and the imperial court got rekt during the occupation, leaving behind the civil service as the most powerful force in Japanese politics.

>Japan was merely seeking the Liberations of Asians
Really liberated those Chinese and Filipinos that they commit mass rape and murder against.

>Again Korea is forgotten.