Why are the samurai so fucking badass? anyone know some cool stories?

Why are the samurai so fucking badass? anyone know some cool stories?

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gutenberg.org/files/16501/16501-h/16501-h.htm
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty#History
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here is one:
there was a bunch of gook mercenaries who lived and behaved like mercenaries everywhere else and then few hundred years later the governemnt made up a cool fairy tale about honorabu worria to dupe their teenage boys to accept their fate and die for the divine emperor and it stuck
the end

>anyone know some cool stories?
fucking little boys was cool with them.

They get BTFO'd by Conquistadors.

I know homosexuality was common back then, but even pedophilia?

usaully goes hand in hand, thats the point

A supposed "warrior" class that didn't even win against any foreign foe.
Mongols doesn't count because they are all a meme of themselves

Wokou were pirates, not samurai.
I don't think the Spanish ever fought actual Japs

Wokou pirates had samurais

>Why are the samurai so fucking badass?
Because you're fat and gay?

Mongs couldn't into the ocean before any conflict happened anyway.

Samurai pirates.

Asian pirates are criminally underrated

Not pedophilia if it's a boy user.

"even"

Pedophilia being a bad and evil thing is a rather new idea.

Well, look at that.

I guess that finally answers the whole "Knight vs Samurai" deal.

Why do Spaniards always post this. Sampans are boats with three large planks to stand on. Wokou are bunch of literally pantless retards with pikes and twin sabres

Samurai still get occasional BTFO no doubt.

Because it had a shitload of ronins and samurai in their army. Wether you like or not, fact is that Japanese warriors got utterly fucked by Spanish ones.

They were violent bandits most of the time, the average japanese peasant would gladly cut off a samurai's head given the opportunity

I don’t care about samurai or ronin or whatnot.
Just give me a source that isn’t a comic from 20 years ago.

no one denies that the Japanese lost a naval battle with the Spanish, but that particular Wikipedia article is full of shoddy work and it should not be taken seriously

>Isn’t a comic

But user, it isn't a comic. What that other user posted regarding the Cagayan Battles come from a historical source.

You might not like it, but that example comes directly from a page of history and it concluded that the Japanese warriors were not enough to stop the Spaniards.

Such as? The name of the pirate leader? Are you really surprissed that people that can't pronounce asian name decided to interpret it in their own tongues?

Come on now, user. Don't stupid.

The article is filled with citation needed marks. If you read the comment apparently one of the cited sources even disputes the account.

You can help by shutting up about it, or learning Spanish/Japanese and filling in the relevant sections with proper citations

Oh, now you are getting angry. Until you manage to find any other work regarding this battle from another perspective (since we do have spanish and filipino sources that it took place), we have to take this history for what it is and that is that the Japanese and asian warriors lost a naval battle and many hand to hand fights agaisn't the Spaniards. That they were not good enough to face the Rodeleros and survive.

It's that simple.

They aren't, you're just a weeb.

I'm not disputing that there was a battle and the wakou lost.
But there are rules to writing a historical article and this doesn't even pass the high school assignment bar

Just look at the pic at the top
pretty much all the ship and troop numbers have a citation needed mark. If you can find where those numbers come from they might be worth discussing, though I find the idea of 1000 people on eighteen sampans a little dubious to begin with

I honestly don't understand the fascination with samurais. To me they just seem like an ordinary warrior-nobility turned bureaucrats with ugly swords and really cringy looking armour. I mean their wargear makes them look like they just rode out from some two-cent fantasy setting. Is my irrational hatred for everything japanese clouding my vision or do they actually look like shit?

> Is my irrational hatred for everything japanese clouding my vision or do they actually look like shit?

Yes.

I mean I understand why people found the whole weeaboo,"samurai sword can cut through anything!" delusions annoying. But going in the opposite direction isn't any more productive, it just makes actual conversations impossible

Is their armor even effective? How does it stand when compared to regular mail?

> Why do Spaniards always post this. Sampans are boats with three large planks to stand on.

Fucking lol

Keep telling yourself that.

Right before you actually google where that battle took place you illiterate fucktard,

...because those were obviously open seas sampans, not the river ones.

That is a very large one though, which the Euro's called junks because of their size, pic related would be a more common piece, still way larger than the plank posted above.

Sow, how many people fit on it, or this two sail one?

>Is their armor even effective?
They wouldn't have adopted it en mass if it wasn't. European designs probably had a higher quality of metal, both were useful enough in their respective arenas of war.

I mean it stopped arrows, sword cuts and spear thrusts so yes

Again. The article is irrelevant. It happened, we have sources in asian and spaniard sides. The Japanese lost.

If what you want is to discuss the structure of the article or how it was writen, then you might have a point. But fact is, we are discussing the event itself and everything is pointing that the Japenese swordsmen were not good enough and lost the battle. Period.

Since that article is the source we are working with here its very relevant, since we cant trust the numbers in gives and if you look into the articles history the narrative is also a little suspect.

In any case sword play would have played a rather minor role in the battle, compared to the tactical and navel aspects, like sampans vs European cannon.

Samurai were in Mexico for a bit

Main things Samurai were gonna get killed by where arrows or spears, and those wooden/metal plates did a fairly good job at stopping those. They did use mail frequently, it's just not shown in many of the reconstructions for some reason.

So are you saying that their wargear looks cool to you? Could you try to make me understand how their getup is anything but cringe. And yes, it actually makes me cringe.

few if any had wooden plates, there were some very early examples perhaps, but steel was the norm in almost all cases

Not sure cool is the word. I dont think they look bad, the lacquer looks nice and there are a lot of fine detail work.

I really dont see what is cringe about it, though I always did find the fake facial hair on the masks a little weird.

>Spanish ones.
The Colonial Army in 16th Century Philippines was a mess of European, Native Filipino, and emigre East Asian (Chinese/Japanese) troops.

I guess it's a combination of goofy helmets with horns and what have you and the armour itself that have a tendency to look like they've wrapped their grandma's knitted rugs around themselves. Overall it just looks like grown men that are cosplaying as warriors but couldn't afford decent shit so they made due with whatever they had lying around.
Granted their weaponry (sans swords) look really neat.

Chain for those late era harnesses was reserved for the joints so it wasn't really kept attached to the games itself on display pieces. In that respect it's use and appearance is similar to the use on plate harnesses.

yeah that one time that the mongols invaded and the samurai didn't want to use spear formations and had no idea how to mobilize or move an army. Yet they somehow still won. then all the mongol ships sank. great story.

the chain mail used was this really light version, not the 4 in 1 style like the euro/Persian stuff you'd imagine. They used 2 sets of ring sizes, and didn't rivet or weld it very often, so its only as strong as the smaller, butted ring. not great.

It was light and very flexible though, so you saw it mostly on the backs of gauntlets and wrists. most samurai armor is about maximizing mobility of defense, so they used lots of different materials to save weight, and not bothering to armour places that wount get hit by two trained samuria fighting. getting a knife in the ribs or pointing stick in the groin wasn't really a common occurrence in a Japaneses battle. unlike the euros who did a lot of mud pit fighting. (they eventually started to delete bits of armor as time went, but not the point.)

the chain is interesting, but not really important.

> They did use mail frequently, it's just not shown in many of the reconstructions for some reason.

They tried to use mail, but they started using it only after they saw it on the Portuguese, and their mail was a shitty imitation, they could not even figure out the ring riveting process.

Their mail was mostly butted, meaning shit.

Literally noone else on Earth was dumb enough to wear butted mail except for the samuuhuhuhuhurai.

We all know who fears the samurai.

this: there's a reason why most people associate homosexuals with pedophiles.
A very disproportionate amount of pedophiles are homosexuals.

they undeniably look cool

You’re a complete fucking retard if you think swordplay decides battles.

I assure you Japanese mail predates contact with Europeans.

and while it was butted, its small ring size meant it held up pretty well in the roll it was used for

>[citation needed]
>[citation needed]
>[citation needed]
>[citation needed]
>[citation needed]
That source lacks so many citations that the system thinks my post is spam. Worst thing is, nobody even questioned the image before me.

I thought samurai were just middle age japanese soldiers not mercenaries.

> I assure you Japanese mail predates contact with Europeans.


No, it does not.

I know some people claim it to go back to the 13th century, but there is literally not a single surviving ring or pictorial depiction of it before the Portuguese arrive.

Only a single written source mentioning something vague that could have been just scale,

> and while it was butted, its small ring size meant it held up pretty well in the roll it was used for

No.

Butted mail means utter shit in no matter what design.

Well it's obviously not undeniable seeing as I don't agree with you.
See

The one doesn't exclude the other.

There's nothing special about Samurai at all. They're just a military nobility. Existed in literally every corner of the globe.

>armour itself that have a tendency to look like they've wrapped their grandma's knitted rugs around themselves
For me it's this.And I don't like big shield sized pauldrons.

If by "some people" you mean "accredited historians" then you are correct

>Right before you actually google where that battle took place you illiterate fucktard,
>Most of these men went aboard the Sant Jusepe. They said that the Japanese were attacking them with eighteen champans, which are like skiffs. They were defending themselves well although there were but sixty soldiers with the seaman, and there were a thousand of the enemy, of a race at once valorous and skillful.
The primary source clearly state that the sampans are skiff sized not ocean going vessels.

The Wokou had anywhere from 144-180 men. The Spaniards had 60 soldiers and an unknown amount of sailors and Indian crew.

Even though it's highly inferior to European armour i think it looks pretty cool

>Be born Benkei
>grow to 6' 5" in my teens
>angry as fuck being around all these manlets
>parents worry about my rage
>get sent off to Monastery to ease my temperment
>learn all sorts of dope ass warrior monk arts
>bored as hell, fuck this shit
>be now an angry 6' 5" man proficient in 7 different weapons, carry all 7 cuz fuck you, I'm Benkei
>wander around for a while
>see Kyoto bridge
>this is a great place to stomp some noobs
>collect 999 blades of defeated men
>one day this uber manlet shows up
>short as hell, shorter than most I've seen
>accepts my challenge
>kek, this little shit
>get my ass beat
>wtf
>pledge my undying loyalty to the true alpha
>turns out his brother is a cunt who back stabbed him
>have the whole japanese army out for our blood
>be on the run for years, killing all who got in our way
>be chased into a corner
>no way out
>do my duty to allow my master to kill himself and keep his honor
>stand at the end of a bridge
>kill 300 men who try to cross it
>all the beta manlets too scared to approach me
>shoot me full of arrows
>still scared as they come closer
>turns out I died standing up like a boss

Nossa Senhora da graca incident is a better example

There's a samurai burial ground near my house where some 500+ people were beheaded.

Their armor was really shitty but it's not like there's much point in hammering out a breastplate when you're using a sword you can actually sharpen instead of a glorified club. Maybe if Japan wasn't so metal-poor there would have been a point.

No its not. It was a naval battle. Samurai were good soldiers but tremendous fuckups in Naval Battles.

Literally everyone in the region have beaten them at sea.

They still fought mano e mano during the boarding portion.

Filipino here.

First of all the name of the pirate was hispanized as "Tay Zufu"

Second of all it wasn't 40 soldiers vs. 1000 Japanese pirates. It started off as an encounter on the Cagayan River between the vessels as Spics sent a task force up there from Manila having heard of a pirate outpost there.
>gutenberg.org/files/16501/16501-h/16501-h.htm
Letter from Juan Baptista Roman to the Viceroy
>While rounding Cape Borgador near Cagayan one fair morning at dawn, they found themselves near a Japanese ship, which Juan Pablo engaged with the admiral’s galley in which he himself was. With his artillery [186] he shot away their mainmast, and killed several men. The Japanese put out grappling-irons and poured two hundred men aboard the galley, armed with pikes and breastplates. There remained sixty arquebusiers firing at our men. Finally, the enemy conquered the galley as far as the mainmast. There our people also made a stand in their extreme necessity, and made the Japanese retreat to their ship. They dropped their grappling-irons, and set their foresail, which still remained to them. At this moment the ship “Sant Jusepe” grappled with them, and with the artillery and forces of the ship overcame the Japanese; the latter fought valiantly until only eighteen remained, who gave themselves up, exhausted.
After that skirmish, they found the pirate base.
>Then the captain, Juan Pablo, ascended the Cagayan River, and found in the opening a fort and eleven Japanese ships.
And then
>“Return, return to Manila! Set the whole fleet to return, because there are a thousand Japanese on the river with a great deal of artillery, and we are few.”

contd.

No, you're racist.

Afterwards there was a brief skirmish on the river again between, but we do not know what happened to the fort. Presumably they came back with more men, since Juan Baptista Roman- who was treasurer in the Philippines- says this to the Viceroy in Mexico.
>These enemies, who have in truth remained here, are a warlike people; and if your Excellency do not provide by this ship, and reenforce us with a thousand soldiers, these islands can be of little value.
In addition
>The governor was disposed to send assistance to the ship, which was a very important affair; but after these events he will not be able to do it, because there do not remain in this city seventy men who can bear arms.
1500s-1600s Philippines saw Spain relying a lot on local forces to make up their colonial military there. It was even the case into the 1700s, albeit with less East Asian immigrant involvement.

Meaning that the 1000 reinforcements that the Spanish sent up in Cagayan would compose mostly Native Filipino warriors from both their direct colonial subjects and allied, converted Native Filipino tribes, Ex-Pirate Chinese sailors, Filipino-Chinese merchant families leasing their junks to the crown, and even Christian Japanese exiled ronin.

You got any stories about escrima vs kenjutsu in ww2? I know there were h2h battles between Japanese officers and filipino guerillas.

>The Japanese put out grappling-irons and poured two hundred men aboard the galley, armed with pikes and breastplates.
The number of Japanese pirates during this particular naval engagement is also problematic.

The largest type of Japanese warship(Atakebune) only had 60 marines and 80 rowers. Given that these were Japanese pirates the likelihood of that this ship being an Atakaebune is even lower.

Pajeets used butted mail frequently you dumb shit.

...

well obviously the power of the triforce saved them

contd. contd.
I should also add that """Japanese Pirates""" or """"Chinese Pirates""""" are highly dubious labels considering Japanese and Chinese pirates frequently sailed together in the same ships/fleets. They were a multicultural lot. Historians of East Asia today collectively call Japanese and Chinese pirates using the Chinese term for them: Wokou. While that literally means "Japanese Pirates" its used in today's historiography to refer to any East Asian pirate group.

In the end in Spanish accounts, what determines the "race" of an Asian pirate was its leader. But really they were pretty mixed.

A good example of this is the worst pirate threat that Spain dealt with here in the Philippines: Lin Feng's fleet of 3000 pirates, whom the Spanish called "Limahong." They were called "Chinese pirates" but Spanish records also talk of a "Captain Sioco" a Japanese commander who was Lin Feng' friend, 2nd in Command, and commander of the shore parties.

WWII is not my interest but there was an incident in Mindanao where Moro Swordsmen were sicced at Japanese hiding in tunnels.

They were most likely in seagoing junks considering Nip sea technology is shit.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty#History

...

Wow so filipino auxiliaries were lightly armed javelin throwers? Moro people had pretty heavy equipment, what did the other tribes/Kingdoms have?

Thank you for posting an actual source rather than that horrible wiki article.

Its possible the numbers of wakou are still off but it gives the impression, wakou in inferior boats but greater numbers attacked the Spanish and were repelled by cannon and close in fighting.

Are there any accounts of Filipino pirates raiding other countries?

Woah there user. Calm your racism down. Weapons are annoying but there is no doubt that samurai armor is the coolest (or only cool) thing about them.
That armor aesthetic was pretty GOAT most of the time.

meant weaboos are annoying*

were they all really pantless?
Seems like a bad idea.

Its based off the Ming Victory Scroll Vs. Pirates. Posted here No. Philippine auxiliaries possessed both Native and European gear

Sometimes even a fusion of both. Like a European hilt on a native blade.
Moro pirates have raided Vietnamese coastal communities IIRC. Tryna get the source.

Can someone confirm my understanding if the Boshin War?
So the Emperor was just a figurehead while the Shogun was the real boi
Then the US said we have boats, with guns, and PLEASEE sign these treaties in favor of us, Russia, UK, and France
The Shogun can't say no to gunboat diplomacy
Emperor says that's bullshit, says Japan shouldn't be unfair
He gathers support from traditionalists after traditionalist Chosu tries to revolt
Although they are traditionalists, they industrialize because England hates France who backs the Shogun, and they beat back the Shogunate, who didn't industrialize as fast
They take Edo, the Shogun leaves, but the Republic in Hokkaido comes and goes
Emperor now super industrializes with more equal treaties, his powerbase in Satsuma gets butthurt that they can't be samurai, and Shiroyama happens
Is my understanding correct?
I'm still for confused about shy and how the Imperials simultaneously industrialized while hating outside influences.

That's a real bizarre thing in Japan in that just like us, they are fascinated and repulsed by foreign influences. They saw the west and the power of the western nations and envied it but at the same time wanted to keep, well Japan being Japan. Same as when the portuguese and dutch came, they were accustomed to amazonian and african tribes and the japanese were totally different with a very strong independant culture and they were very impressed by it, the japanese similarly.
Basically, they agreed that the path to power was partly to copy the west and they managed to modernize their country faster than pretty much everyone. They went from a feudal state to a very modern one in a single generation.
But somehow, when they beat the russians and were treated like side characters after WW1, they got some sort of awakening like "we thought that the western nations completely overpowered us but we now have catch up, so back to the Japan way of things", that's why you really have a strong return of nationalism and traditionalism in the 1920's.

It's a combination of fascination at the power of a very foreign and different nation combined with good old xenophobia that Japan knows all too well.

For one, while the Imperial court hated foreigners, and had a very poor understanding of their power, they initially sided with the shogunate, whom they were related to through marriage. It wasn't until the relatively young emperor Meiji too the throne that they switched sides.

second both sides took steps to modernize their forces.

The satsuma situation to my understanding was based on both frustration of the samurai class over the abolition of their rights, high unemployment among them, and Saigo's belief Japan should invade Korea to give them work.

>I'm still for confused about shy and how the Imperials simultaneously industrialized while hating outside influences.

The imperialists were rabidly anti foreigner, but their leadership were more sophisticated. They had seen the power of western naval bombardments and new that the shogunate was also trying to modernize their armies. They also had far smaller numbers to work with. They smuggled in weapons and western military advisors and created small scale modern armies that could win out over larger traditional forces.

By the end of the war it was clear to them that western military methods were necessary, and they also realized to compete with the west they would need western industrialization and that required western schooling. So by the end of everything they were totally behind westernization.

Furthermore you can look at the conflict in a few stages:

before and shortly after the coming of Parry things were unstable and there several small revolts that were put down relitively easily.

a second period of increasing instability centered around control of Kyoto, still fought mainly with traditional weapons which the shogunate won but with increasing destabilization.

Third the crowning of Meiji, the shogun returning nominal power to the emperor, and the advent of modern armies and weapons. which loyalist forces lost. The Shogunate forces mostly fought to make sure their vassals were treated fairly by the new regime, which was intent on punishing them for past transgressions.