Why exactly did it fall?

Germano/Judao foul play, like the Jews designed a trojan horse religion with proto communist/pacifist theology to weaken them up as a revenge for the 70 CE destruction of their temple, and the Germanic hordes hacked them to pieces shortly after.

>Why exactly did it fall?

A materialistic aristocracy and the peasant terrorist revolt caused by the Jews.

youtube.com/watch?v=5y1efTVX20M

>the absolute state of this board
If christianity was such a devastating religion then why did it survive another 1000 years? The causes are the same as the ones that made other empires before them crumble: disease, poverty, corruption, too much power in the hands of the army, too far stretched, tribes that want to settle in your land and get treated like shit etc...

JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOZ!

Empires fall because projecting power at a distance is both necessary and ruinously expensive.

Why did whitey ditch cool roman culture for YES MUH LORD HOUSE WHO GIVES A FUCK ALL HAIL THE KING culture?

>w

>If christianity was such a devastating religion then why did it survive another 1000 years?
Literally totalitarian stranglehold on all venues of thought.

But the byzantime "empire" did crumble all the time, like the only thing they did was losing turf and losing more turf, even against retarded brownies.

The Romans didn't want hordes of Barbarians marching through their lands, so the barbs sacked and invaded them. Lots of Medieval kingdoms and modern countries have their routes in these Barbarian invasions

The Franks, for example. They invaded a region that they then called Frankia, which became Francia, which has now become France. The Angles invaded Anglaland, which is now England. Italy fell to the Ostrogoths, Hispania fell to the Visigoths, Tunisia fell to the Vandals.

In truth the Roman Empire on the eve of these invasions lacked any of the strength they claimed or appeared to have, the barbarians just proved that by calling their bluff.

This

>exactly
"No!"

no better than praising a despotic man that claims to rule because god allowed him to do so
the roman empire endured constant raids from berbers, normans, bulgars, serbs, hungarians, venetians, turks, pechenegs, visigoths, huns, goths, persians, lombards, countless civil wars, the loss of its most important territories (egypt which supplied grain) and still managed to survive against all odds and you have the courage to claim that christianity somehow made its people weaker?

not enough trade (new ideas, cooperative advancement in technology, society) from foriegn powers (cimbri/germanics, silk road, india/mid east), and weak and internal collapse, mostly debasing the currency, people wont fight for copper like they will pure gold.

>no better
Completely agreed.

>christianity somehow made its people weaker?
I mean, they fucking failed, right? The weak fail.

>Be Justinian
>I will retake North Africa and Italy
>Bulgars and Sklavinoi assravaging the Balkans
>>Better build some fancy buildings, muh glory
>Oh yeah I'll build some forts in the balkans, but won't commit a lot of garrisons cause muh RECONQUEST
>Also I'll spend more money on making barbarians fight one another and stretch my empire's fiscal capacity further
>East and West split regards to religion
>Decide to persecute Eastern heretic sect
>Somehow fails
>Decide to renounce one of the sects to comply to the Eastern Monophysites
>Demand Latin Pope to sign the denouncement of 3 authors, refuses
>Put him under house arrest until he complies and signs the treaty
>Piss off the Western Latins for leaning too much to the Eastern side and force my shitty dogma on them
>Get so confused by Christ's nature I make a statement that contradicts the following I associate myself with
>Basically become a heretic
>Plague comes in
>Sassanids also attacking us
>Still need those Italian lands mofugga
>Slavs break through my frontier after 5 years of peace.
>Eventually Barbarian superstate forms that wants to conquer our land
>wtf why is West and East still split and angry

Procopius's wasn't NEARLY harsh enough.

>Shitty economy due to lack of trade
>Social and religious conflicts
>Corruption in the government
>Mass migrations thanks to the Hunnic invasion of Europe and climate change
>Romans backstabbing each other in the worst situations
>Debased and highly inflated currency
>Failed reforms
>Civil wars
>Multiple plagues
>Population shrinkage

Whenever someone came along that actually had the potential of fixing things, he got killed by some Roman cunt.

>the causes of the third century crises are the causes of Rome's downfall
>Rome ended in the third century

EVERY

FUCKING

THREAD

Rome was a militaristic society exploiting conquered people to produce and bring wealth to Rome/Romans, Rome was doomed the instant Romans weren't the main element of the army anymore. That being said, Rome suffered from a lack of kinship and an extremely low birthrate(already at the time Augustus) due to monogamy(less alliance through marriage, and less babies due to less women).

>Rome was doomed the instant Romans weren't the main element of the army anymore
What did you mean by this. Roman citizens always compromised the majority of the army. Do you have any idea how small Foederati bands were? In a 5th century Vexillatio of around 900 men, there were 20 Franks and 5 Goths.

The only period when Foederati may have formed the majority of the army was at the very end under Majorian and Anthems, but that's purely conjecture and we have no way of knowing for sure.

>Roman citizens
I'm talking about Ethnic Romans, not larpers

...

>Ethnic Romans

This

Christianity

A lot of fedoras ITT doing the work of the jews they hate

Not enough silver.

When your business model is taking new lands to fund projects back home, it will only work if the expansion is a net profit. when that stolen wealth is no longer enough to keep the occupying army happy, let alone the second class citizens your trying to keep in line, things tend to go to shit fast.

Barbarian hoards weren't the most common baddy, it was the pissed of governor that was a constant problem. when your all of a sudden using your army to pacify your own stuff and not out expanding and getting new stuff, your gonna run outta cash.

>that's why I always make sure I put a good general in each city with plenty of town watch, and I make sure to always make a public bath.

True, when will Chrsitcucks ever learn...

No I was referring to posters like you. Destroying the host culture of a country is jewish tactics 101

Exactly that is why Pagan revival is essential to the survival of Europe.

the roman baths were hot to the point where it boiled the testicles of the roman male and caused infertility that forced the armies to rely on barbarian mercenaries.

Even worse. A series of religions that were abandoned mostly willingly, and today there are almost nothing known about most of them and are used for sex orgies and larpers

wh*te invasions

>mostly willingly
Being this fucking retarded. At this point you really can't argue with pseudojewish wog spawn.

>Being this brainwashed
>unironically liking Varg who supports muslims over fellow Europeans

>Not understanding how all semitic religions are a cancer to the planet.
In my eyes a Christian are worse then Muslims, at least you know where you stand with Muslims. Christians are the beta cucks who would murder fellow Europeans in the name of a meat popsicle and mad ranting of foreign sand merchants.

Gay Christian Feminist Immigrants

>All Semitic religions are bad
>Except for Islam which is based!!!!!!

Lol you have to be jewish or Muslim.

The Fall of Rome has so many contributing factors that you could probably fill this entire thread with responses and still not fully cover every reason.

At its most basic, the Fall of Rome was a cascading systems failure caused by centuries of instability, corruption, civil war, rampant inflation, and poor leadership weakening the whole so much that when the Huns pushed all of the germanic tribes west, Rome was entirely powerless to stop them.

The root of the problem really comes from a weak system of succession that was never really enforced when the Princeps died. Coupled with the Roman presidence of armies being loyal to their generals and declaring them emperor, you had a recipe of almost nonstop civil war between competing Emperors.

These civil wars absolutely fucked with the Roman economy, as they didn't quite have an understanding of inflation, destabilizing the economy for 2 to 3 centuries and paving the way for a sort of proto-feudalism.

At the same time because enlisting in the legion was almost like playing Russian roulette, you saw a decline in enlisting Roman citizens. Because of this Rome turned to foederati, barbarian tribesmen who were allowed to settle in Roman territory in exchange for service. This backfired however because local Roman governors and generals decided to fuck with the Gothic foederati for a quick buck and ended up causing an armed rebellion. Then once pacified, they were angered again by Honorius and ultimately lead to the second sack of Rome.

Another side effect of the civil wars is that it caused any capable general to be considered a threat and either removed or assassinated, leaving only incompetents running the show. Throughout all of this, you get the feeling that nobody really realized how fragile Rome was and so they spent their time politiciking and posturing while the empire fell apart around them.

Add to this the Huns, the great migrators, and the Sassanid empire.

Not at all Islam is a Jewish sect that also needs to be eradicated from Europe. Along with all other Semitic religions. Mosques, Churches, Synagogues all make good firewood.

Well while I don't believe you, Indo European religions are from the Asian Steepe. Shouldn't those be finally removed from thought and go back to the religion of the megalith builders, i.e the original Europeans

For me I would rather pay homage to the gods of my more recent forebears, but if you feel a greater spiritual connection with Asian steppe animism you do you. Frankly I would rather remove the cancer (Abrahamic Religions) first then work on rebuilding what we have lost spiritually and culturally.

> Asian steppe animism

That's literally what the Greek and Norse gods are. And your most recent forebears are Christian (in reality it's obvious you are jewish or muslim)

>That's literally what the Greek and Norse gods are.
I have no problem with that. If I wish to pray I would rather pray to the gods my ancestors have prayed to for tens of thousands of years then some random desert cult that violently occupied it for the last 2000. I know that many of my ancestors have been Christian willingly or forcibly converted but all I can do is pity them. Because throwing away your own culture and traditions for the sake of Jewish fairy tales is truly a sad thing. Even if what we have left is little it's better then surrendering to the foreign cancer.

I get you keep wanting me to be some shitskin or Jew because it fits into your brainwashed agenda but it simply isn't true.

Then you are a useful idiot and even worse than jews and muslims

Look up "The Fall of Rome" podcast, it's hosted by a guy who did his PhD in History in that subject and don't listen to all the retarded responses here.

I glad you see it that way. Because that's exactly how I see Christianity and every single fucking toe sucking Christcuck.

I bet your fun at parties.

>all the other kids starts playing

Well the fact is that your alleged culture is based on Christianity and you have nothing in common with any pagan ancestors. The fact of the matter is that you are a 5th columnist and nothing but a destructive force and a parasite on a culture you claim to want to save

Say whatever you wan't user, I'm done arguing. You know as well as I do that society has functioned fine before and will continue to do so after Christianity. All you are doing is being the host for a foreign toxic ideology that is only harmful to the West. Enjoy reading your fairy tales about fictional sand people for the rest of your life.

Christianity built the west. You have nothing but ill convinced memes and irrational butthurt. (If you really are European)

Last time I check the Roman Empire was built by pagans.. While I think about it the ancient Greeks were also pagans. You know the very same Greeks that are responsible for the majority western principles and philosophical concepts we hold today. Christianity didn't build anything, Europeans built the west.

interdasting

bumpity pls

I haven't been to a party in 9 months.

What exacty is an "ethnic roman"? You might as well say an ethnic New Yorker

they became christian and lost the motivation to maintain the empire as a supply of boy pussy (18+) for the emperor

Several reasons. Most notably, perhaps, the fact that a large part of their economy was based around the conquest of new territories and eventually the costs of maintaining said territories became far too great for it to be profitable to control them all. At the same time, however, the empire's internal market had come to rely on resources provided by those provinces so just abandoning them wasn't an option either as the effects in the short term would have been even worse.

I made a map to help you(retarded people) understand what are Ethnic Romans.

Of course it was many reasons, but to me it was a confluent of primarily division and corruption in government AKA bad leadership, illness, and a series of civil wars. Mainly the wars and the disease and the shitty government are what made them so weak. The germanic tribes finishing them was just the coup de grace. The tribes weren't that powerful, just easily conquered an already languishing, once great empire.

This.

Two overstretched frontiers : the European frontier and the middle eastern frontier. The Romans couldn't afford to maintain these borders against all the outside threats for long. The first to be breached was the European frontier by the Germanic barbarians. Then the middle eastern frontier was breached by Muslims. A small portion of the empire remained in Byzantium.

There's nothing ethnic about being Roman. Roman's as a people were a mix of various Italic tribes.

>Circling the city of Rome makes it an ethnicity

You're fucking retarded.

...

>christianity destroyed Rome

nice meme, Vargtard

>There's nothing ethnic about being Roman
Wrong

>Roman's as a people were a mix of various Italic tribes.
Every people is a fusion-union, of tribes, as for the Romans, they were a fusion-union of Etruscans(who are non-Italic btw) and Latins(Italic tribes) later admixed with Sabines(another Italic tribes)

The systems perspective is that the power structure became very complex and difficult to administer for its time. For almost all the reasons above, the Empire was too fragile and disintegrated.

But the Roman Army hadn't comprised of ethnic Romans for centuries by the time Rome fell.

At the beginning of the 5th century it's estimated that a quarter of the army came from Italy, considering the size of the Empire, "ethnic Romans" would actually be massively overrepresented

As an army becomes more fashionable its performance is inversely effected

pic related

Rome was founded by Etruscans, Sabians and Latins.

So your circle is too small.

Sigh. >:l

There's nothing wrong with a Pizza Hut... or restaurant... or business near Egyptian pyramids.

I... need to stop trolling.

Well meme'd my friend! :^)

die amerifat subhuman

autistic backstabbing was really popular

The best example would be the whole gothic immigration debacle.
Basically you have an entire people fleeing in terror from the Hun onslaught. When a migration agreement is finally made with the roman empire about half of the horde panics when an allied king is allowed to cross the river first as rumours have been spreading that the romans will bar the way when he and his people have crossed. As such tens, if not hundred of thousands storm the river resulting in utter chaos as the roman military presence is to few to do anything about it. Eventually the romans get a grip on the situation and start herding the goths into various camps and disarming them as much as possible. At this stage a couple of roman administrator release their innate jew and start gouging the refugees fot whatever valueable they have. Alledgedly it got so bad that parents sold their children into slavery for some moldy bread. This ineviatly lead to a quite understandable chimpout that sees all of Thrachia turned into a ruined wasteland for something like half a decade as the gothic horde(s?) are to large for the romans to handle, especially after they get a hold of proper military equipment. Eventually though they are vanquished but and due to the chronic roman need for more people they are allowed to settle in Gaul IIRC. However, the romans make one fatal blunder here. They allow the goths to maintain their own (military) hierarchy. This ofc eventually lead to future shenaningans such as the Ostrogothic kingdom of Italy and the Visigothic Kingdom in Spain.

Ignore him, he seem to think that Marius ended the roman empire.

I know you're meming but the late Roman army actually performed very well. Probably their worst period was the last quarter of the 4th century but they recovered quickly. The failure of the Roman state wasn't a failure of military.

This is something that frequently crops up in discussions about late Roman history and it bugs me to no end. People talk about the decline of the empire and they bring up people like Marius and Sulla and Julius Caesar, as if anything they did had any bearing on the problems of the later Dominate

That's because the average person knows nothing about late Roman history

>"ethnic Romans" would actually be massively
They were, it was ROMAN Empire after all.

As for the Army, my wording was wrong, i should have said "core element" or "leading element".

do you know what a roman is? if you did you'd know there is no ethnicity. and the closest thing to one would be descending from Troy, which is mythical and literally everyone technically is.

There's no such thing as an ethnic roman. It was a citizenship. The term you're looking for is latin.

But people are in general wise enough to understand that the 30 Years War doesn't really have a bearing on the day to day politics of today.
Inbefore
>Gief back the Devil's Bible!
We won't now stfu about it.

because Caracalla was made emperor.

but seriously, is mostly true except for this part:
>when the Huns pushed all of the germanic tribes west, Rome was entirely powerless to stop them.

i don't whether you intended the make the germanic tribes into a bunch of barbarian invaders, but that's a simplification of the situation. the Visigoths/Ostrogoths/Vandals/Swaves/etc all usually sought formal treaties with Rome and would send envoys to ask permission to settle on Roman land. it was only after they refused that they started raiding, likely as a tool to put pressure on Rome in order to get the terms they wanted.

it's also not entirely correct to say that the Romans didn't have an understanding of inflation, since it's the entire reason for Constantine's solidus coin was struck as a new money of account. whether they knew how to combat it effectively is a different story, but I think it's clear that they had an understanding of it.

there's also the breakdown of the administrative structure originally set up by Diocletian to consider, and more importantly, the massive tax structure needed to run it. taxes simply weren't being collected from former provinces, and Italy + Sicily themselves had long been exempt from taxes.

Literally everything in my post was an over simplification, and i still ran out of space. I'd have to write out 10-20,000 characters to even get close to delving into the subject matter at hand.

But yes, the tribes being pushed west ward wasn't necessarily an invasion like people want to make it out as and they were hardly without their uses. This is seen in Majorian using the suebians in Spain during his campaigns, Stilicho, the Goths fighting for Rome along the Danube, etc.

I said they didn't quite have an understanding of inflation, not that they didn't outright. They had some understanding of what was going on but didn't really know how to counter act it.

The only solid point i particularly want to make is that Rome didn't fall in a day, nor was there any *one* particular reason it fell. There were a fuck ton of issues deeply rooted in Roman history and identity that caused it's eventual demise, spanning centuries.

Someone giving Italian Aristocracy a kick in the ass would have probably extended the western empire's life by quite a bit.

Dude just let more people be emperor lmao

>Literally everything in my post was an over simplification
i know, it just seemed like you might have been veering towards the 'horde of barbarians invading Rome' thing at first, which would have just been incorrect. but clearly you weren't.

you're right, though. in fact, it would have been better to tell OP to open up a book rather than have anyone try to explain it here, if he was actually looking for an answer.

>the 30 Years War doesn't really have a bearing on the day to day politics of today
>implying it doesn't