Now that the dust has settled, which program is better? SS or SL?

Now that the dust has settled, which program is better? SS or SL?

Other urls found in this thread:

strengtheory.com/powerlifters-should-train-more-like-bodybuilders/
startingstrength.com/resources/forum/mark-rippetoe-q-and-a/8177-kethnaab-rippetoe-workout.html
youtube.com/watch?v=xaEVDfDazI4
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

Literally doesn't matter. All the beginner programs are the same fucking 5-6 lifts for sets of 5 arranged slightly differently across 3 days. Just fucking do any of them.

Don't make this fucking thread again. And never speak to me or my wife's son EVER AGAIN!!!

maybe SS maybe SL maybe go fuck yourself

greyskull

imo if u want aesthetics id say just go straight to a hypertrophy routine, fuck a strength base you don't need it

SS because you don't start with just the barbell, you don't stall as early because you only deload whem you miss reps on the first set, you advanced based in how much you can do, not 5lbs/workout, and 3x5 is plenty of volume for a novice.

How the fuck do you expect to get big benching lmao1pl8?

Dyel: the man, the legend, the post.

>you only deload whem you miss reps on the first set
Incorrect.

...

For novice assthedicks:
Greyskull > ss > reg parks > sl > icf
For novice stronk:
SS

Not that hard, famalam

so hypertrophy routines totally memed out then?

Or just expanded their horizons, at least according to those studies/that article.

>which program is better? SS or SL?
Lol, it doesn't matter.

Do either one, try hard, and you'll need a new program in 3-6 months max.

It's not worth debating. Becoming strong takes time, and SS/SL should be in the dust before you even know what happened.

What do you think of All Pro's routine?

SS. Rows are for faggots.

you are a faggot

A

>Squats
>Bench
>Rows
>Dips
>Weighted Push Ups

B

>Squat
>Press
>Deadlift
>Pull ups
>Bicep curls

Modified version of SL which I use. I skip Squats every Wednesday, come at me.

What are your lifts and post pics

>rows are for faggots

Enjoy your subpar fizzeek

> natty
> hypertrophy workouts
Pick one

Rows are a good exercise, but not in place of power cleans. Don't get me wrong, I love dumbbell rows for hypertophy, but only after I do cleans.

please be bait

It's better than these two shitty ones, allpro and greyskull are the superior routines for beginners. Allpro doesn't see the same amount of raw strength gain because it's more of a shaping routine for size and definition, but that's where greyskull comes in with a good balanced routine that favors strength and not just lower body like this faggy shit.

t. dyel

is greyskull that good? I used to train on SS, but had to get a couple of months rest because of an illness and now im wondering what should i start

Greyskull, SS, SL etc. It really doesn't matter. They're all just as good. You'll see a good beginner routine by the simple fact that it adds progressive overload on every workout and is not too high in volume. My simple advice is, to add some compound excercises for arms, like dips and chinups (greyskull already has chinups) and add lateral raises to ever other workout. The lateral deltoid is one of the most neglected muscles when it's so important for aesthetics.

SL becomes SS. the 5x5 thing doesn't last that long. iirc the mehdi guy says in the forums that most people move to 3x5 by 2pl8 for squat. I don't really understand why he pushes 5x5 so much when in reality he acknowledges it drops off pretty quickly.

I did 5x5 until about 110 kg squat then 3x5 until 130 kg squat then transitioned to high bar, started at about 125 kg squat and then shifted to texas method because progress was too slow.

it's an argument over very small differences. I think mehdi mentions that power cleans can be done instead of pendlay rows but I'm not 100% there so don't quote me

>iirc the mehdi guy says in the forums that most people move to 3x5 by 2pl8 for squat
So glad to hear that. Just did my first deload at 190 and frankly can't wait to go 3x5 on squats. All my failures were in set 4.

the whole point of a novice LP is to get those easy neurological gains out of the way

for this purpose 3x5 is adequate volume

just get the book and do SS, don't neglect to do the upper body accessories like dips and chins and shit or else you will look like garbage

add in curls, i'd do them at least twice a week if not every session (maybe switch out hammers and barbell curls) because big arms are cool and your bicep tendons will be iron in a few years

>How the fuck do you expect to get big benching lmao1pl8?

you can still progressively overload and up the weight on a hypertrophy routine, it really doesn't make a huge difference

imo exhaust easy beginner gains on SS/greyskull or something and then jump into hypertrophy training once you stall out

intermediate training is all about refining motor patterns and more importantly gaining muscle mass

strengtheory.com/powerlifters-should-train-more-like-bodybuilders/

I did Kethnaabs SS, which I thoughily enjoyed much more than Stronglifts. I did this until I stalled out a little above 1/2/3/4pl8 (except DL, 10lb or so under). He even ran it past Ripp for approval. Goes something along the lines of:

Squats - 3x5
Bench - 3x5
Deadlift - 1x5
DIPS - 2 x 8-12. Go Weighted 5-8 once you can do 12 BW correctly.

Workout B
Squats - 3x5
Standing Press - 3x5
Bent over rows 3x5 or cleans 5x3
PULLUPS/CHINS - 2 x 8-12 (Same BE function as rows
Friday only: 2 sets of heavy curls and 2 sets of heavy incline skullcrushers.

I swapped the Bench and Press round.

Source for Rip: startingstrength.com/resources/forum/mark-rippetoe-q-and-a/8177-kethnaab-rippetoe-workout.html

Don't do this. Just do SL 5x5.

adding volume with accessories is not the same as adding volume to main lifts that are much more stressful, and in which you are pursuing technical gains

more sets = more accumulation of fatigue, not ideal for a novice LP that assumes recovery from session to session

tl;dr do SS or GSLP

Cleans are way fucking cooler than rows, so I'd recommend SS. Also you start at higher weight, and SL turns to 3x5 after you hit decent weight, so much volume fags can get fucked.

Who the fuck is Mehdi anyways? He really did copy SS and just replaced cleans and changed to 5 sets didn't he

Man the fuck up dyel.

Pretty much exactly, except he copied Reg Park's novice 5x5 and removed the more complicated bits.

He's a marketing guy. He knew that he'd be able to sell his shitty app to people much more easily with fewer exercises.

His app is great newfriend.

Why do we recommend his shit then?

Because this is his competition.

Because novice programs are hard to fuck up, and over all not entirely significant.

Hence Veeky Forums spends 99% of its time arguing which is worst.

As long as you do a fullbody, strength-based linear progression routine, using mainly or only compound lifts....... It doesnt fucking matter.
It really does not

mad dyel we got here

Shouldn't icf be first assdivk

>which novice routine you choose really doesn't matter
>oooh he mad

...?

Because this is his competition.

Better for what?

Who is that?

no, because ">" means greater than.

And as icf is literally the worst of the available novice routines, it goes last in this list. As everything else mentioned is objectively superior.

Glad i could clear that up for you

Because this is his competition.

Reddit fitness mod. Dyels recommend his Greuskull variant on here from time to time.

ya u mad kek

You literally didn't answer the question

Why is icf last? Also post body

Doesnt matter really. Just dont do it for 3 years. Use it for like 5-6 months and then do another program. They are great programs to get your strength up before doing an advanced program.

Phrak?

>implying sl is better for hypertrophy because "more volume"

Found the dyel who doesnt get the concept of progressive overload

Brotip: total training volume (setsxrepsxload) doesnt matter. The only thing that matters is that you progressively overload the volume (by increasing sets or reps or load, or a combination thereof)

The lower the volume this is done with as a bovice, te better, as there is less adaptation to high workloads, so when you switch to progressively overloading with added sets/reps instead of added load (i.e. Intermediate phase), you wont need 20 sets of your 8rm just to get progressive overload.

You get maximal growth even with less volume, ainply by adding weight to achieve near-maximal progressive overload

It's the worst available beginner routine. Let's work on reading comprehension this week dyel. Mmmkay?

Why is it the worst? You're not giving valid reasons.

You also didn't post your body, which makes be assume you're a fatass or dyel

dyel can't handle two extra sets lol

Your SL is shit.

It is literally sl (an already sub par program) with arm isations. Arw you this stupid?

Just out of curiosity what about?

1. Too much volume for beginner
2. "Abs"
3. The creator looks like shit.

Pls post body. I wanna see who is calling me DYEL

It's sl + upperbody isolations. A lot of people on sl are trex mode.

What's wrong with those extra isolations?

This isnt even the guy who originally said icf is worst, but he isnt wrong.

Those also arent the best reasons why icf is shit, but they are correct reasons.

>too much volume for beginner
Plenty of begginers have done this program
>abs
?
>creator looks like shit
Blaha himself stated he doesn't do icf, and to be honest I doubt he works out much at all, which explains his shit body

Arm isolations are a physique killer (RIP delt:arm ratio)

Upper body isolations in general are useless except side lat raise and maybe shrug.

You want a bigger upper body? Dont focus on isolating tiny weak arm muscles to fuck with your chin up strength or bench strength.

Heavy. Fucking. Compounds.

Fuck sl and fuck icf and fuck you

Look, stupid.
Heavy volume with heavy weight = mass.

Period.

Low volume with the heaviest you can lift for a few reps = strength


heavy reps with low to moderately low weight = endurance with no or shrunken mass.


This is how it is for naturals, this is how it has been since fucking forever.

Anyone who tells you otherwise is either an idiot who's been on gear for longer then they've been training natural, selling you something, or parrotting something someone else has said.

>blaha totally knows about programming, he just looks dyel because he doesnt train

Stupidest shit i have read on Veeky Forums.. That is saying a lot.

Blahino trains 3x a week.

The VIF management on icf is garbage and if you do not realize this, you are almost certainly uneducated in exercise programming

he does the ice cream part of icf

You are fucking retarded.

You are agreeing with me tard.

I am saying to do less volume as a novice

>or parrotting something someone else has said.
Unlike you who totally haven't spent your entire lifting career on Veeky Forums and is just repeating the memes spouted here?

And you are fucking dyel

You're overcomplicating it. As long as someone has a workload high enough to force adaptions he's going to make gains. What that workload includes depends on goals.

So yeah, if you want to look like a pussy who JUST started lifting last year and is going to get heavily on gear when he realizes he's fucking retarded, continue listening to this fucktard.

Question goys
I'm using the sticky post routine"
A. 5 x 5 - Dead lift, Row, Machine press
B. 5 x 5 - bench press, squat, 2 x most you can pull up/chin up

Started lifting january kek.

Also got a hernia and stopped making gains.

Pic is basically 6 months of greyskull, which is fitting as we are talking about results of a novice program.

Also arm isolations are literally only for roiders, as roods make your delts blow up and fuck up your delt:arm ratio in favor of delts - a problem natty lifters will never have. In fact, heavy compounds is best for a natty.

I guaruntee i know more about natty muscle growth than you. I have personally contacted brad schoenfeld, as well as read and understood all the literature he published, as well as listened to and understood every relevant interview he has done

I would say my knowledge on the subject rivals the good sir menno henselmans

You probably watched one single 3dmj vid, only inderstood half of it, and called yourself an expert

>Also arm isolations are literally only for roiders, as roods make your delts blow up and fuck up your delt:arm ratio in favor of delts - a problem natty lifters will never have. In fact, heavy compounds is best for a natty.

So yeah.
You're basically admitting that you know absolutely fuck all and all of your knowledge comes form limited experience and what some gear heads on some other forum fucktard on about.
Is that it?

Cause that's what's going on.

You will never ever ever find a single solitary fucking person on the planet earth who has not been completely blown out by people with two fucking braincells to rub together who will tell you that curling does not work for building mass.

Ever.
Not ever.

You are fucking retarded and need at least 3 years of actual lifting and reading and experience, not fucking around with babbies first powerlifting program and pretending that you're not a goddamned noob who is all of a week away from getting on gear because you totally exhausted all of your natty gains.

Right but if you adapt yourself to a higher workload without getting any additional growth, it will take much more work to achieve the same results when you get to intermediate phase

Say guy 1 and guy 2 have the same musculature but guy 1 did 8 worksets as a novice and guy 2 did 3.

They both end their noob gains on the same day.

Guy 1 might need 2800lb of volume on bench to progressively overload, whereas guy 2 might only need 1800

Less work for identical results.

I didnt say curling doesnt build arm mass.

I said doing arm isos as a natty fucks up yor proportions, and impedes progress on compounds

Post body, you REEK of dyel

dyel?

LMAO20REPS

>he doesnt know who dr. Brad Schoenfeld is
Kek

>dyel?
my max squat is 325, and I've torn my meniscus and MCL playing college football, and had to get surgery on both, so my legs are lacking. I know girls mire most places I go, I've litterally been at a party just talking to my friends and girls just comes up and pulls me to the side a starts making out with me. This has happened twice, I fucked both of them probably only saying 20 words to them. A girl literally pulled over once and asked me if I needed a ride. I said "yea" hopped in, and after about 5 mins of talking she asked me if I wanted to come over to her place, and I ended up fucking her. Trust me, girls mire everywhere I go. So yeah, I guess you could say I lift.

You look like shit honestly

>doesn't post body

How long does workout A and workout B take? Half an hour or something? Is this seriously something you recommend a beginner?

I don't need to be a chef to say a meal taste like shit

So bigger arms AREN'T bad because, as you stated before, it throws off your proportions, it's bad because it negatively impacts your compounds.

Basically no one who starts on babby's first powerlifting routine gives a shit about progressing on compounds.

Basically no one.

They want to be strong AND look strong AND look good.

Wanting to just progress on compounds? That's for strength and powerlifters.

Klokov, you know the guy that you fairies worship like unto a god? He lifts like a bodybuilder that one powerlifter you guys trot out to claim that powerlifting will make you look like a body builder if you only cut?
Geared out of his goddamned mind and SAID THAT HE WORKED OUT LIKE A BODYBUILDER WHILE HEALING AN INJURY HE ATTAINED WHILE POWERLIFTING.

I do not fucking care.
I will never fucking care.
Unless this guy knows some brilliant as fuck piece of knowledge that changes the very nature of our understanding of how the body adapts and grows I do not give a single solitary fuck.

>doesnt even squat 3pl8
Dyel confirmed

>you look better than me
Kek thanks. I feel pretty good having sbty after only 6 months real liftin.

I just wonder how much more gains i could have made if i didnt get a hernia and could still lift heavy

Actually schoenfeld is 99% responsible for proving woth science that rep ranges dont affect hypertrophy.

If you are natty, you will never have a delt:arm ratio that is in favor of delts. So natty lifters should never train arms, only delts.

Roiders can train both, because yheir delts will blow up.

Pic related is training arms

>Actually schoenfeld is 99% responsible for proving woth science that rep ranges dont affect hypertrophy.

I've never actually seen any real concrete proof stating that rep ranges do not affect mass.

Care to link me?

This is fucking stupid. Making the muscles that flex and extend your elbow stronger will not impede your progress on compound lifts.

>Pic related is training arms
Whereas THIS pic is a natty who has never ever trained arms

Still not as good a delt:arm ratio as say jeff seid or kinobody. They both train arms but because roids, they have boulder shoulders, and thus a better delt:arm ratio than me

Tl;dr: arm isos are for fake natties

>If you are natty, you will never have a delt:arm ratio that is in favor of delts. So natty lifters should never train arms, only delts.
Completely fucking wrong, source: me.

Schoenfeld et al 2014, and i think 2012 as well.

This was when you control for total training volume.

Rightj. Isolations =\= strength building
Also you are fatigueing the muscles by training them.

Look at your tiny tricep. Your pectorals and deltoids combined can handle more training volume than your tiny tricep.

If you maximize delt and pec strength, you will maximize tricep strength.

Doing babbyweight pushdowns will juat affect recovery, and add mass disproportionately

Post pic. I have literally never seen someone with delts but no tricep.

Or with lats but no bicep.

If you have no arm mass, you have no back, delt, or chest mass

>60 year old fat man outdoes 95% of Veeky Forums
youtube.com/watch?v=xaEVDfDazI4

Isolations build strength in the muscle they are isolating. They don't just make your arms blow up but make them weaker. Nobody ever stalled their bench from doing 3x8 pressdowns a couple times a week. Nobody ever stalled their weighted chins doing 3x8 hammer curls twice a week.

>mild kipping
I do more pull ups than he does chin ups, and i do them strict