Intermittent Fasting

This goes against everything I've been taught by Veeky Forums, so I'm going to choose to disbelieve it.

Not necessarily. Volunteers for studies like this always include people who've been lifting for a while. The numbers are typical for all training ages, ranging from almost zero gained to 1 kilogram gained in a month.

ajcn.nutrition.org/content/103/3/738.full

[Citation Delivered]

The most common number of years someone on Veeky Forums has spent lifting is less than one. The most common age bracket is 17-19. Don't believe what you read here, research elsewhere first.

Intermittent fasting looks promising and many people swear by it.

I'd say it's worth giving a shot.

That's not a study on IF retard.

Why do you even click on literature without reading it?

i didn't mean to quote the post faggot

Then you're plain wrong, IF doesn't look promising in any world, cuck. People will swear by paleo, vegan, fruit only, whatever the fuck bullshit diet they come up with that restricts them from snacking 5 times a day, just because they lost weight.

>ajcn.nutrition.org/content/103/3/738.full

No.

Trained people typically will not gain muscle at a deficit. Untrained people will though.

Because untrained people become trained the second they touch a weight in a gym and bruteforce their lifts up by gaining 5% bodyfat while doing SS.

Oh wait, that's the opposite of what would have to happen to a person to make them gain muscle on a cut. Oops.

Citation needed, faggot.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25028999

Athletes over 10% bodyfat maintained lean mass on a 750 kcal deficit.

Proof in case you don't bother to actually read the paper:

"Forty overweight [BMI (in kg/m2) >25] young men..."

"... no participants were regularly performing resistance exercise nor were they regularly performing structured progressive aerobic or anaerobic training."

Overweight and untrained. It's a common theme for study participants in studies like these. Nothing wrong with it per se, but if you're trying to justify gaining muscle while in a deficit for someone who has been training for at least 6 straight months, it ain't gonna happen.

I'm a fatass DYEL 22-25% bodyfat, incredibly weak with no muscle.

Should I be lifting on a strong cut right now?

The results were extreme. 1.2kg muscle gained on a cut in a month is crazy. The number doesn't magically drop to zero when you finish your noob gains.

I was really hoping you would actually read the paper. I honestly gave you the benefit of the doubt. Guess not.

And now you're completely moving the goalposts. First it was said above that you can GAIN MUSCLE while in a deficit. I said 'No, not unless you're untrained'.

Now you're saying you can MAINTAIN lean mass while on a deficit. This is largely true, and I never said otherwise. What happened to the gaining part of your stance?

I am doing IF while bulking, cuz it boosts testosterone

It's quite close to zero. Close enough that there is no significant gains on a deficit.

If you have been training long enough, or know about muscle gain on a continuum of one's training, you should know how much muscle you gain as time goes on. It quickly becomes not a lot after a few years. Now try to gain muscle on a deficit - haha - it won't happen.

So if if an athlete gains zero and a complete noob gains as much as a typical person would see on a bulk, what do you think the numbers look like for everyone in the middle? I'd go out on a limb and say they're "in the middle" of zero and quite a bit. Crazy, right?

please reply

Yes. Start lifting and cut. You'll still gain muscle because you're overweight and untrained while losing fat at the same time. This is pretty much one of the only times you can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time.

>after a few years

After a few years it's hard to gain muscle period. It has nothing to do with giving noobs advice.

>Yes. Start lifting and cut. You'll still gain muscle because you're overweight and untrained while losing fat at the same time

I'm having trouble getting stronger though

i really can't keep up with the "5 lbs to each big lift per session" meme

No. That's a massive leap based on several assumptions.

By all means though, try it. Plenty of people have certainly tried and gotten no where with it for the simple reason that it does not work unless you're a complete beginner.

You should be lifting on a moderate cut over a moderate period of time, dummy

Post your stats please. This includes age, male/female, weight, rough body fat % estimate, current training program and weekly schedule.

You're totally off the track of what you even started arguing now.

I'm confused, didn't see it in the article but can someone tell me what intermittent fasting is, specifically? I think I do something similar, fasted lifting, I have some whey and creatine with coffee before a lift but that's it, is that the same principle?

>age, male/female, weight, rough body fat % estimate, current training program and weekly schedule.

20 years old

male

205lbs, 6feet

i think like 25% bodyfat

blss routine, 3-4x a week with some cardio thrown in

I'm arguing that a guy who walks into an IF thread and has to ask whether he can gain muscle on a cut can absolutely gain muscle on a cut, and telling him otherwise is just scaring him for no reason. Most people lifting for less than 2 years can gain marginal amounts of muscle on a cut if they're not lean.

It's when you fast for 16 hours and only eat during 8 hours of your day.

>we are unnatural we eat from sun up to sun down

So do most omnivores/vegetarian warm blooded animal. Carnivorous only animals like big cats spend most of their time sleeping to make up for not eating all day. Its perfectly natural for a human to eat all day especially active humans. The only unnatural thing is lack of exercise that most human experience.

How long have you been lifting for? I really don't think it's been long, and I don't mean that in a 'in your face' kind of way. Here's why:

1. You think you can still gain muscle on a cut if you've been lifting for 2 years. No. Not gonna happen. Please try after you've been lifting for 2 years.

2. That's not the definition of IF. That's ONE TYPE of IF. There are many variations of IF. The 16:8 approach was made popular by Leangains.

3. IF does not necessarily have to include cutting. Part of what made Leangains popular is because it makes a body recomp a possibility since it contains DISTINCT CUTTING AND BULKING PERIODS during your 24 hour day. And these periods are what you need to have if you're NOT A COMPLETE BEGINNER. This is why Leangains is popular - it actually works for people who have trained a while.

You're right, that's why I get annoyed when people come in and make blanket statements like "you can't gain muscle on a cut" or tell skinnyfat noobs to bulk. I could have been lean a lot sooner if I stopped listening to Veeky Forums's bullshit about losing my gains or wasting my time. I'm gaining strength and muscle at a decent rate while on a mild deficit and I'm looking better every week. The majority of Veeky Forums hasn't lifted for 2 years and the most common group is the complete noobs.

Is there any proof to back up the recomping aspect of IF? I'd be way more inclined to believe someone like Candito who says recomp at maintenance than a website called 'leangains'. All the evidence I've seen so far says that IF is just a fad diet.

can you respond to me

What are your lifts? You usually won't be adding 5lbs twice a week to your bench if you're benching 1pl8 3x5.

this. if you're on a strong cut you probably won't be giving your body the adequate nutrition it needs to support your training.

If your main concern is putting weight on the bar and you're stalling a lot, then something is wrong with your recovery. Either diet (not enough protein, too big a deficit), lack of quality sleep, you're getting too strong to put 5 lbs on the bar every workout, or a combo of those 3. If you're making progress but only putting on 5 lbs every other workout, that's still good and you should stick with it.

I'll say it one last time: If you've been training for less than 6 months, you can make good gains while on a cut. Anything after that, and all I can do is wish you good luck.

You DON'T recomp at maintenance if you are anything other than a rank beginner. It just doesn't happen. If you are not a rank beginner, you won't make meaningful gains on a cut. You need to be on a bulk. There are 2 exceptions to this:

1) You do steroids.
2) You go on a diet that has distinct cutting and bulking periods in a given day or week. Leangains does this by fasting for 16 hours (cutting) and then eating for 8 hours (bulking). Other diets do the same thing by eating at a deficit 5 days of the week, and then eating at a surplus 2 days. 5 days you're losing fat, 2 days you're gaining muscle. Leangains has more credibility to it than Candito ever will. Candito knows powerlifting, let him stick with that and let better people handle nutrition.

interesting articles.
So is intermiediate fasting more like the first (eat only during 8-9h something) or second article (eat very little every second day)? Also is this 8-9h arbitrary or could there be better results if they restricted it further to say 4h?

>If you're making progress but only putting on 5 lbs every other workout, that's still good and you should stick with it.

I'm making that kind of progress.

like 5lbs every 2-3 workouts usually

i just look like a fucking woman completely, and i'm ashamed of it so i rather just look better than to get a deadlift of 365lbs or whatever the heck

>hey user why dont you come eat with us
>o-oh s-sorry cant its not in my eating w-window

>>hey user why dont you come eat with us
>>o-oh s-sorry cant its not in my eating w-window

But that's completely opposite.

With intermittent fasting you're usually eating in the weekend, so you can enjoy all those high calorie foods with far less restriction because that's your calories for the day

fuck i mean in the evening/second half of the day* not weekend lol

>user why dont you go out to brunch with us
>(mumble mumble)scooby said(mumble mumble) eating window (mumble mumble) oats

How do people not understand that weight loss on IF is caused by eating at a deficite? All IF does is make you feel fuller during your meals since you're fighting through the hunger and eating everything in a short window of time. It just keeps you from over eating by trainning your will power and making you less hungry after meals.

IF is a great idea for people that have weak will power but it doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating the same amount of calories during any hour of the day.

You can easily see this by trying IF for a month or two. If you pig out on chips and cake in that 8 hour window you wont lose shit.

No you fucking idiot

Learn what fasting does to your insulin resistance

Learn about the leangains program

No ones saying it has magical properties that make you lose weight, just that it's more efficient