From Gambesons to Buffcoats

Why is it that at the end of the middle ages and the beginning of the modern period, soldiers switched from a gambeson-type under armor to a buffcoat type under armor? Was there some advancement in leather making?

Wasn't there a gap between gambesons falling out of use and buff coats becoming popular?

PS, in the 17th century a good quality leather buff coat could cost as much as cavalry armour did.

Gambesons work excellent for mail, buffcoats for plate. Armour changed, so did the undergarments.

Gambesons became thinner and shifted to an "arming doublet" style with little strings to tie armor onto. Sometimes they would have mail over parts that were difficult to cover with plates, such as the armpits. These are called "voiders".

I thought in the 17th century the buffcoats were worn under the cavalry armor. Am I mistaken?

>Gambesons work excellent for mail, buffcoats for plate.
While that seems plausible enough, are there any sources that talk about this?

Military historian here. Answer is actually much more mundane: The increased use of firearms. Leather and felted wools don't burn like linen and cottons.

You still see plenty of infantry using textile defenses and padding at the same time as buff leather, but in general, those who use firearms will be using wool and leather.

hey gropey, what kind of padding(if any) would be worn under 16th century full plate

Quilted or layered linen and wool arming garments. Dumping 16thC material culture on arming garments.

...

Now, since I can understand that some people might say "Those paintings look like leather not quilt, I end with this: An extant 16thC Arming coat in the Met, that is notable for having something that the paintings show, but almost always get destroyed over the ages... (cont)

...It still has one pannle of the finishing layer that gives it a clean, smooth look.

these look a lot thinner than the other gambesons you often see. Could that be due to age and wear, or would arming doublets be made thinner than gambesons due to the increased effectiveness of plate?

Also how did aketons fit in? When worn with mail and a gabeson over it, would they be significantly thinner?

Because you wanted arming garments, not gambesons. Its padding for the armour, not armour alone.

Gambesons et al, are textile defenses , which in themselves a form of armour. They can and are often layered, but are typically too thick for a full harness. For example, my 15thC quilted jack is a little over a quarter of an inch thick of linen canvass, stuffed with linen and wool batting.

Aketon, gambeson, quilted jack, etc, are all just various textile defenses.

To compare with my quilted defense in , the man in pic related has a thinner arming coat, which is padding for the armour, rather than armour itself.

Is that you? You look nothing like I imagined.

That's Gropey all right.

what the....

....Is that guy staple gunning money to the tripfag's chest?

>buffcoats
Really comfy to wear but quite cold

he made that up except for the part about money stapled to his chest (it was $5 bills)

There was another pic with a 20 on top and some girl doing the stapling

Looks like a $20 note to me. Not that it matters, as he's having fucking money stabbed to his chest with a fucking staple-gun.

I mean, is not one else kinda disturbed that people would willingly do this?

This is the same user that fucks THOTs from /cgl/, and let's angry Russians try and kill him with blunt swords. Gropey is smart, but an attention whore with self destructive tendencies.

>tripfag is an attention whore

I'm shocked.

based clown.
gropey you may be my favorite person here.

Yeah, but he's also a legit historian and bro-tier IRL.