What's the general consensus on Stronglifts 5x5? Also since i'm a beginner and can't squat or deadlift properly...

Rows instead of powercleans.

After you stop progressing on SL you drop the extra two sets and do 3x5 just like SS.

Do you know what the programs are?

I literally just said that it's rows instead of power cleans, did you read my post? SS also has chin-ups as well as power cleans.

So your reasoning for SL being better for aesthetics is that rows are better than chin-ups and power cleans?

If you stick to the routine and eat clean you'll see results. Also start as light as you need to if your form is bad because doing it wrong will fuck you up in the long run

You do chinups on SL too, but it's optional.

Why are you getting so hot under the collar user? Let me take off that shirt for you.

> Better hypertrophy than SS
> Rows facilitate better arm/back gains than power cleans

That's about it. However:
> 5 sets of 5 to some beginners is a lot
> Workouts generally twice as long

SL > SS any day, but I recommend weighted chins instead of rows unless you can do the rows with perfect form and are engaging the lats properly.

If you're doing chin-ups and deadlifts, what do you need the rows for? Babby weight rows aren't going to do anything not covered by deads and chins for a novice.

It would be like adding incline bench when you're already OHPing and benching. It's just wasted time as a beginner.

Not OP but my hips move up like an inch when I pull during the row.

Is that killing my gains?

You're losing the benefit of the exercise as soon as the posterior chain gets involved, deload and focus on form.

If you goal is aesthetics tho I'd do weighted chins, better arm gains and you'll have carryover to your pull ups.

>After you stop progressing on SL you drop the extra two sets and do 3x5 just like SS.

So after the over the top volume stops working, you start essentially doing SS instead because it allows for longer progression? SL sounds gr8 m8

Yeah it is great.

The material is better suited for the millennial generation, it's all online and you can digest it in bits. Also the app was far superior last time I saw.

>it's all online and you can digest it in bits

That's good and all, but marketing has no effect on the efficacy of a program. I'd rather do the better program than do the one with a shinier app.

Marketing shills in full force today

The reason SL is so good is because the app is so good. Otherwise it's just another beginner's program, they all serve the same purpose. The app makes the difference because it's great for tracking your progress, it's easy to use and you can accessorise your program to suit you as well.

>marketing

The app is free

You should have at least progressed outside of novice before moving to 3x5. Moving to 3x5 requires several deloads, although Mehdi was inconsistent regarding when to transition to 3x5.

The app is free, and you can download the full version if you can google.
>b-but botnet
The apk I got required no network permissions and did not register any network activity so I'm pretty sure it was not calling home

Never actually looked at the app before, but how is the app any better than the excel sheet provided on the SL site?

I know they charge you to add accessories to the app, whereas you just type anything you want in the excel sheet.

Dude. You fucked everything up.

The app computes your working weight for you, as well as keep track of your lifts. It will tell you when to deload and shit.
The paid version also includes warmups, but then
>paying for apps

The excel sheet does the same thing though, except no warm ups, and it's free.

I could understand if we were talking about some fan made spreadsheet, but this is literally the official one on the 5x5 site for free.

too much squatting too little benching

@38733598
@38733628
>free means that it can't be marketed
Retards in full force today.

Benching 3x per fortnight is ideal for linear progression, if you're doing OHP and dips too.

Drop squats on the midweek session when you're taking too long to recover, for me it was when i hit 2x bodyweight.

>can't even use Veeky Forums properly and he has the audacity to call others retarded

Painful

it's automated in the app, plus it has a timer which pings you at the 1:30, 3:00, and 5:00 mark
After you enter your "best lifts" at the set up, the only input it will require from you would be how many reps/sets you did on that workout for that day. It will do the progression/deloading for you

>claims to based on Reg Parks 5x5
>it's literally SS with 2 changes
>guy who made it was piss weak and had next to no coaching experience at the time

You do have to give it to Medhi for his marketing skills and initiative though. He saw that shitters didn't want to spend an hour learning how to do a basic power clean, so he re-released SS (with 5x5 because of Reg Parks of course) with rows instead.

Made him a shitload of money. Genius.

I forgot to add the most important thing: it's on your phone
>b-but you can do excel on your phone
The question is, why?

>he doesn't powerclean before the first rep of his OHP

@38733743
Thanks for the (you), retard.

Exactly; Mehdi's marketing ability is superior and thus his shitty program gets compared to Reg Parks, Rippetits, Bill Starr, etc for beginner workouts.

Of course I don't, power cleans are the most difficult movement a human being can learn. You need at least a PhD in kinesiology.

Those 2 more sets really ramps up the hypertrophy. This is pretty common knowledge between mildly experienced lifters.

I get what you're saying, but I've been using Google sheets on my phone for years now and never thought it was inconvenient.

I just made a new cell for all my accessories.

I just can't justify paying for something with a legitimately free alternative that's just as good.

>I just can't justify paying for something
Who said anything about paying

too much volume

But people on SL end up squatting 3x5 anyway, and the rate of progression is the same as SS, so they both end up at the same point. For example:

Lifter A on SL starts with 135lbs 5x5 and ends up with 315 for 3x5.

Lifter B on SS starts with 135lbs 3x5 an ends up with 315 for 3x5.

If they'd just started with 3x5 because experience shows it's more sustainable with 2-3x weekly jumps, they'd save themselves a bunch of harder 5x5 workouts for no benefit. Infact their chances of overreaching with 5x5 is increased, because 5x5 is a lot harder to recover from than 3x5.

Talking about accessories. You have to pay to add accessories on the SL app.

Damn near 40, just started 5x5, its a pretty good beating for somebody whos never lifted, going try to add some slow runs on off days just to cut down on the soreness. went a little heavy on squats and should back off some weight.

Unlike body weight endurance stuff i did in military i just failed the weight but had to add had some stuff to get to failure.

Just use "Notes" on sl 5x5 to write in a warmup or addons.

Any leg stuff i should had in? Esp calves.

Strength does not equal aesthetics.

No benefit? How is getting more hypertrophy not a benefit?

Unless you have no interest in looking like you lift.

>Mehdi was inconsistent regarding when to transition to 3x5.

I just moved to 3x5 when the thought of doing 5x5 made me want to kill myself.

>5x5 creates aesthetics, 3x5 doesn't
>two guys who can squat the exact same weight after 3-6 months are going to have totally different sized legs, trust me!

Come on guys, stop acting retarded.

Do you have any idea how hypertrophy works? It's literally all volume.

You will gain SOME size from doing pure strength work, but theres a reason you won't see ANY bodybuilders doing 3x5 workouts. Does that mean you can't do them? No, just don't expect to have any noticeable muscle gain.

This is very true. I'm fucking amazed Rippletits hasn't got his shit together enough to put out a good SS app yet. He could even do one that runs into TM if he wasn't such a crusty old technophobic dinosaur.

forgot to add

>295715 posts about people complaining that SS made their legs too big
>but 3x5 is just not enough hypertrophy!!!

It is indeed all about volume. Two people squatting 315 3x5 are doing the same amount of volume. Doing a couple months of babby weight 5x5 is not going to change that.

>No, just don't expect to have any noticeable muscle gain.

Again, SS creates big huge Trex legs but apparently 3x5 doesn't cause any noticeable muscle gain. What about if I did 3x5 4x a week. That would be more volume than 5x5 3x a week (because you can use more weight with 3x5), but of course there would be less muscle gain right?

No, they are not doing the same amount of volume. Also, unless they are some sort of freak a person is not going to get to 315 at the same rate with 5x5 as 3x5. There is too much extra stress on the body. You have obviously haven't tried either program. I'm not shitting on SS btw, just saying its more strength optimized and anybody who says differently is clearly a novice.

I really hate to post blaha as a reference but...

youtube.com/watch?v=leAA9dlJX_Q

>two people squatting the exact same weight for the same reps are not doing the same amount of volume

lol wow

They do make similar progression, because at the point where the person on 5x5 is stalling because 5x5 3x a week is far too much to recovery from and they have to switch to 3x5, the person starting with 3x5 is still recovering just fine from 3x5.

>Also, unless they are some sort of freak a person is not going to get to 315 at the same rate with 5x5 as 3x5. There is too much extra stress on the body.

So what you're saying is that 5x5 will burn you out quicker and take you longer to get to 315 3x5 than somebody starting with 3x5? You literally just proved my point.

The distinction between 3x5 and 5x5 only really becomes relevant when you're an intermediate and need to tune your volume for longer recovery periods. Novices make progress with any old shit, but experience shows 3x5 works for longer with novices. That's why a guy with 35 years of experience made it 3x5, and a guy with almost no experience made it 5x5.

This is ignoring the fact that medhi also tells you start with the empty bar, which is pretty stupid advice and will make progress take unnecessarily longer, unless the empty bar is literally the best you can do.

>That's why a guy with 35 years of experience made it 3x5,
Maybe if he made it higher in volume he wouldn't have been a nobody when he competed in powerlifting himself.

SS, SL or GS lp. Which one do you think is better for a beginner and why?

Free as in freedom?

Powerliftingtowin Novice Program

Ironic that rips best lifts are better than Medhis best lifts.

In the same boat here breh, I for the life of me can't get the weight to be on my heels, and I get mad pains on my groin for trying to push my knees outward when coming up. I also need work going down, since I just automatically go ass to grass and it isn't helping in my case. I just rosay had to deload a bunch and now trying to fix my form for real. Godspeed user

You have to be fucking trolling me. Theres no god damn way someone is this stupid. You trolled me good you stupid fuck.

Today*****

>shit I don't know what to say to that
>I'll just call him a troll

>paying for the full app
Like I said, who said about paying Yes, gahnoo+accessories

I moved to 3x5 when I stalled on 265 for four times.

>if you take two people who can squat 315 3x5, the one who did a couple extra sets when he was squatting 200lbs will have way bigger legs!

>That's why a guy with 35 years of experience made it 3x5, and a guy with almost no experience made it 5x5.
SL tells you to move to 3x5 when you can't keep up with 5x5. My only gripe is he doesn't say exactly when, but I guess that's for the better since the transition could be a case-by-case basis

Well put it like this.

Hypertrophy work is most effectively done within a certain percentage of your 1rm. Along with Strength training of course.

Not saying we are using either Stronglifts or SS and just say the rep schemes 3x5 and 5x5.

If you were to continue using those rep schemes for an extended period which program would allow you to reach a higher percentage of your 1rm? 3x5 Because of the lower volume and increased ability of your body to recover.

Intensity refers to the amount of work required to achieve the activity, and is proportional to the mass of the weights being lifted. Volume refers to the number of muscles worked, exercises, sets and reps during a single session. Frequency refers to how many training sessions are performed per week.

So since you are doing more volume on 5x5 you are at a percentage closer to that of hypertrophy work.

85-100% Neural Strength & power little hypertrophy

75-85% Neural & metabolic Strength & Hypertrophy

70-75% Metabolic & Neural Hypertrophy & some strength

Do mobility work and as close to a squat or deadlift you can manage. If you have to do box squats for a week do them, if you have to do romanian deadlifts instead of deadlifts for a week do them. You'll adjust and be able to do conventional lifts fairly quickly.

As long as your beginner program includes compound lifts you'll be fine. Any beginner program with compound lifts will work which is why mediocre lifters like ripptits or marketingman can shit out beginner programs.

>couple extra sets

okay lets do some math here.

If you were to do 3x5 of squats 3 times a week 52 weeks out of the year that would be 468 sets. If you were to do 5x5 for the same amount of time that would be 780 sets. You think someone doing THAT much more work isn't going to see any sort of extra hypertrophy?

BTFO

So why not just start with 3x5? The whole point of a novice program is to get you to intermediate as fast as possible, which is why the loading is so aggressive. You make the switch to 3x5 because 3x5 works for longer and allows you to hit intermediate quicker. 5x5 was literally just a way for medhi to make his program not just be SS with rows.

Hypertrophy work is most effectively done with a certain % because it allows for more work to be done in a reasonable amount of time. Net volume is the ultimate predictor of hypertrophy. There's nothing magical about the rep range or % itself that causes more hypertrophy. 3's would actually be better than 8's for hypertrophy if you were to do comparable volume, but you can accumulate volume easier with 8's.

What would produce more hypertrophy. 5x5 or 25 heavy singles? The 25 heavy singles, since it would be more net volume. However it would take goddamn forever and is not practical to do 25 heavy singles. That's why higher rep ranges like 8's are used for hypertrophy, since it's easier to accumulate volume with them without having to spend 5 hours in the gym.

This is why strong dudes have big fucking legs regardless of whether they do all their lifting with 2's, 5's or 8's.

No, because for one these programs are meant to be done and dusted in a few months, and you're ignoring the fact that the person doing 5x5 is going to plateau faster. These are also novices we're talking about for whom the range of stress required for adaptation is huge. More experienced trainees need a more precise amount of volume to cause hypertrophy without overreaching. Novices can get hypertrophy from just about fucking anything. The wonder of noob gains.

Fuck man, its like arguing with a god damn wall. You get more volume even during the short time of doing the 5x5. No its not as high of a percentage of doing rep schemes of 8 but at the same time its higher than 3x5. Isn't it going to be a ridiculous amount more from doing a few (well almost twice as much but..) naw, will you see more? hell fucking yes. More volume = more muscle MASS not STRENGTH.

>So why not just start with 3x5?
More reps to get your form down. Mehdi mentions this specifically. By the time you go 3x5 you have had enough time to practice form.

>No, because for one these programs are meant to be done and dusted in a few months
Not necessarily

You seem to think that strength is not correlated with hypertrophy.

Take two twins, who has bigger legs: the one who squats 315 for a 5rm or the one who squats 275 for a 5rm?

What gets you to that point faster, 3x5 or 5x5? (hint: it's 3x5).

Ever seen somebody squatting 225lbs 5x5 with huge legs? No, because they're still weak as piss. Hell, they could be doing 225lbs 10x5 and still have shit legs i.e. STRENGTH MATTERS.

More reps to get your form down, but more fatigue to allow form to break down. The more fatigue, the harder it is to keep your shit together. This is why the last reps of very high rep sets always seem to look like shit.

>SS for 36 months

You add a minimum of 10lbs every week to your squat on starting strength, and that's being generous and assuming you have the light day on wednesday. 156 weeks in 36 months. So unless that guy has a 1560lbs squat, he did not 'do SS'. Even taking deloads into account would still come to a ridiculous number. startingstrength.com/articles/clarification_rippetoe.pdf

>but more fatigue to allow form to break down
this is why when this happens (when you're lifting enough weight to make you fatigued enough to allow form breakdown) you go 3x5

>it's an everybody is an armchairlifter episode
>it's a theorycrafting episode
post bodies now

Again, that's gonna happen so quickly that you may as well have been doing 3x5 in the first place. If the answers to all of SL's problems are "switch to 3x5" then doesn't that say something?

You can change it to 3x5 and make the same gains, even faster desu.

Post pics please

I can only lift twice a week,does it make sense for me to lift at a higher volume since I don't lift three times a week?
By high volume I mean 3x8 or more

literally never trained before. Now 3 weeks in squating with 100kg 5x5, benching with 80kg 5x5, rows with 75kg 5x5 and OHP with 50kg. I'm 191 cm and 90kg though..

and thus ends the thread

u first breh

I was just passing by and noticed a lot of talk but no pictures, The noisiest anons are usually the most DYEL

How did this thread turn into a bunch of teenagers asking for pictures when we were discussing BEGINNER routines?

You literally stay on Stronglifts, Starting Strength, Reg 5x5, for six months to a year at most.

And here you retards are, discussing hypertrophy, with no sources, of beginner and beginner-intermediate routines.

Why does it matter what they look like? Plenty of people who aren't DYEL who buy into all kinds of broscience.

Because we expect one who can write literal paragraphs about a subject to have applied what he knows to himself.
>Why does it matter what they look like?
I find this funny considering this>guy who made it was piss weak and had next to no coaching experience at the time
was posted

Whether I've applied it or not is irrelevant. What's important is if it's true or not. Do you hire a coach based on his ability to produce athlete's or his ability as an athlete himself? If you're smart, it's the former.

>I find this funny considering

So people need to have created a famous program in order to critique a famous program? Guess I shouldn't have opinions on movies or food brands either because I've never created one, right?

So if my claim was that drinking my own piss was the reason for my gains, and I posted a picture of me 275lbs jacked doing an 800lbs squat, I'd win the argument and you'd concede that drinking piss must be good for gains?

if I remember correctly mehdi worked as a programmer of sorts or somewhere along those lines I'm pretty sure that's what gave him the technological know how to make the app

>these are the people giving you lifting advice
unwarranted

I am male, skinnyfat and have a fat ass (Sometimes I grabbed by random guys when going out).
Is there any SL/SS style program without many squats or leg exercises which don't work the glutes? I dont want much ass to get any bigger.

>grasping this hard

Guys, Boris Sheiko isn't even a lifter, if you're doing one of his routines you need to stop RIGHT NOW. What could he possibly know?

he lifted, and has his students under his belt. HBU? Reading things on the internet does give you the credibility to give advice. Having a decent physique will at least give what you are saying a bit of credibility.

>Having a decent physique will at least give what you are saying a bit of credibility.

Hysen Pulaku would like a word. Yeah, listen to people with good physiques rather than evidence and reasoning. I forgot that physique was all about programming and has nothing to do with diet and drugs.