K guys, which work out is superior? SS, SL5x5, 5,3,1, or grey skull?

What makes you prefer SS to greyskull?
I personally love the approach to deloads, and the squatting frequency

enjoying greyskull more than SS, although i'm still too fat to do proper chinup sets

>doing a strength routine

Starting Strength is a true linear progression that controls volume (total reps x weight) very well by only changing one variable (the weight).

Volume needs to be controlled lest a novice burn out (e.g. Strong Lifts' crazy 5x5 volume).

GP LP can be a problem:

100 lbs x 20 reps (2x5, 1x10) = 2,000 lbs

Next workout

102.5 lbs x 19 reps (2x5, 1x9) = 1,948 lbs

Notice that the weight went up, but the volume went down. This isn't good for a novice. The volume needs to go up with the weight.

Now, an advanced novice might consider using programmed extra reps in a deload. The extra reps must make the volume equal or slightly exceed the volume of the failed set that caused the deload. In this way, the advanced novice could still progressively overload volume in a deload.

But the key hear is PROGRAMMED extra reps, not AMRAP.

Why is that bad for a novice?

Volume going down with an increase in intensity is textbook linear periodization, which is why GSLP is different from SS - it's not a pure LP, it's a slightly linearly periodized LP that can be run for longer (in theory).

In practice I don't think the AMRAP set at the end adds enough volume to make a damn bit of difference - if 3x5 was not enough stimulus, 2x5, 1x8 probably won't be either.

Novices might as well just pick either one and run it until their easy gains dry up, and then move to a periodized program that lets them build their work capacity and up their training volume.

>Why is that bad for a novice?

Recovery is a limited resource.

A novice is getting more than enough volume from the ever increasing warm up sets.

There is no good reason to add extra workset reps if 3x5 is enough to cause adaptation for the next workout.

Doing more than 3x5 sets the novice up for failure.

Greyskull LP is flawed because AMRAP leads to unpredictable volume and the strict 5 rep deload rule lends itself to yo-yoing. In my opinion doing 3X5+AMRAP and deloading only if you miss the first 2-3 on AMRAP is better - but that isn't the programme anymore.

StrongLifts has the 5X5 to 3X5 shift which can lead to problems. No vertical pull is stupid for any beginner routine. Squats and deadlifts on the same day can be alright but not the way SL does it.

Starting Strength is decent if you do chins and if you do some rowing assistance work like DB rows.

Overall, all three are good and will get the job done if you do it right. This polemic on Veeky Forums is hair-splitting and shouldn't prevent a beginner from just picking one and sticking to it for 3-4 months at least.

Warm up sets are usually not counted in assessing volume load by any competent coach, as they're far too low intensity to have any real training effect (Boris Sheiko, for example, does not count sets below 50%).

Novice programming is a balancing act of session-to-session recovery (since we want the adaptation to occur before the next workout) and enough volume to trigger that adaptation. While novices do sometimes stall on an LP because they simply cannot recover from accumulated fatigue from 3x5 squats multiple times a week, the culprit for stalling on upper body lifts on programs like SS is usually lack of volume. 3x5 1-2x a week is not sufficient for these lifts.

So 3x5 is not always enough volume to cause an adaptation, and the AMRAP last set is supposed to remedy this.

The whole deload 10% and build back up thing is only a solution if the stall was caused by accumulated fatigue, otherwise it only ends with another stall at the same/similar weight (because why would adaptation occur if volume didn't increase?)

Help me out a bit guys, I'm doing that GreySkull LP pic that people post here with pic related for accessories. I'm wondering what's the point of the back extensions and leg raises

doing squat and deadlift on the same day??
is this wise?

back extensions: low back
hanging leg raises: abs

also, add more bis and tris

SS > GSLP >> SL 5x5 >>>>>>>> ICF

Do SS or GSLP, eat a lot, and do 1-2 accessory movements at the end of each day, if and only if you have the energy, after going as hard as you can on your main movements, and only after the first month. If power cleans intimidate you, do speed pulls at 60% of your deadlift working weight.

>Squatting and DLing on the same day
>Deadlifting 3 TIMES A WEEK

Doing reg parks beginner routine, so far so good, thoughts on that routine from more experienced lifters?

Pic related is the routine

Should they stay at bodyweight? Why do I need more Bis and Tris?

>power gap > ICF

Start Bodyweight

With SS if you havent done sports or lifting before and you werent a fatass you're just gonna run into stall after stall.
With the amraps and plugins of your choice you can add much needed volume on deloads.
Gslp is better than ss, no doubt

I did SS properly for a few months. After I took a break from lifting, I came back with this routine I read on here, and I much prefer it.

A
Squats 3x5
Bench 3x5
Deads 1x5
Pull ups
Lateral Raises
Hammer Curls

B
Squats 3x5
Press 3x5
Deadlifts 3x5 (80-90% of 5 rep max)
Close-grip Bench 3x8
Hammer curls

Initially on SS I had real issues stalling on upper body exercises, and as a beginner I wasn't doing enough deadlifting to get my form right. This fixed both of those issues. My bench especially progressed much more smoothly. The program suggested chin-ups but I thought there was too much bicep work so I switched it to pull-ups.

I will admit that the curls are for vanity.

squatting heavy 3 times a week? hmm

It's actually not that bad. If your form is poor and you get butt wink, combined with the deadlifting it can be hard. But otherwise you recover quickly and can progress very fast.

To clarify, I don't do the accessories in that pic, just the ones in

What the fuck are you babbling about you gigantic sissy

what's wrong with the normal greyskull accessories? they seem fine.

would you like big biceps?

[yes] no

add 2x10-12 curls (alternate hammer and barbell or hammer and db curl) to each workout

inb4 some 13 inch arm newfag says it's too much volume or will interfere with your recovery or some DYEL nonsense garbage like that

bis and tris recover very fast so some isolation shouldn't interfere with recovery too much. having big arms is nice.

weightlifters do heavy pulls and squats/fs together all the time, get with the times lad

Is ICF objectively bad or does everybody just like memeing on blaha? It's literally exactly the same as SL with the addition of bicep/triceps/traps/core work so you don't end up looking like an SS/SL meme

All of them at once.

That's exactly why it's bad.

It takes a sub par program, then forces you to not go so heavy on your main compounds, which should be yours and your focus, and forces you to do a fuckton of unnecessary accessories.

What if I do stronglifts and just add biceps/triceps?

Arm isolations as a natty is the biggest meme of all.

>tfw never trained arms
>tfw they are proportionally too big compared to my tiny delts
>tfw i will never get an aesthetic delt:arm ratio without roids

You literally don't have to. As a beginner your focus should be getting stronger.