Anyone have experience with hardware ledgers? do they store altcoins like link? pic related

doesn't even have to be a keylogger, like that ED script that steals your keys just by clicking the link. That never would have happened if you had a ledger, there's so many potential attack vectors and undiscovered ones that it's really stupid to trust thousands of dollars on a "flash drive with a txt file"

thanks ordering one now

how are you protected from keyloggers as mentioned here:

Well he is until they need to be keyed in, if you don't need to transact with the account regularly it's fine, you only need to go to the trouble of ensuring you're on a safe machine the day you go to cash out so it's not really much of a hassle.

u mean a flash drive with a text file that begins with:
-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----

I don't trust hardware from China not to have backdoors in it. You shouldn't either. Come on.

better not trust that usb drive, or the pc you're using

Are you illiterate? I said they were better than flash drives but not hugely different. And they really aren't.

>I said they were better than flash drives but not hugely different. And they really aren't.

you are fucking retarded, please stop posting

I don't, but those ledger's are 100x more vulnerable to backdoors. The parts on your PC are part of a long manufacturing chain and every link cares about the parts prior being clean. The ledger's are literally built with funds from the Chinese government by single companies. Come on.

Yes. Yes.

(You)

Ledger uses a secure element, not the same as a USB drive.

I didn't say they didn't, they have some fancy software that makes them better than a normal flash drive.

you make a good point but then what would you suggest we store our crypto on

i have one, they can store ETH or any eth20 token (so anything based on ethereum, like LINK, COSS, and a hundred more), and also have a BTC wallet built in.

As far as I know they can't store any non-btc/eth based coins though, things that run on different blockchains like QTUM for example, although I believe it will be possible for Ledger to update firmware to support these kinds of coins in the future as well.

Overall I'm really happy with having a ledger, gives peace of mind compared to a regular software wallet - you can basically replicate that same peace of mind if you have a separate machine or bootable USB or something that isn't ever connected to the internet/network, but it's a lot more hassle/slow doing it that way.

I wouldn't bother with a ledger though unless you have at least a few thousand $USD worth invested, like if you're dealing with $100-1000 I dunno, probably not worth the cost of a ledger at that point.

A secure element is a tamper-proof chip, a little more than fancy software running on a USB drive.

i have 2k invested right now with another 500 comes in monday... with my current investments thats going to be in the 20-45k range by Q1 2018 at that point id like to secure my btc.

I'd just encrypt USB drives. So you have to decrypt the USB drive before you even enter your mnemonic key. That and SSD. Same deal. Double encryption.

This if you don't have money or time for those ideal 3 of 5 physical key type things.

like I said absolutely fucking retarded, and literally has no clue what it even is.

I don't understand this process, what are you even encrypting? It is the point where you enter your key that is the risk

I just keep everything in one Bitcoin wallet and one Ether wallet. I remember the seed phrases for both as little songs in my head.

you encrypt the file(s) that you store your private keys on and keep several backups (also encrypted). that way if a usb stick gets lost or stolen, the thief can't open your private key in plain text and you've got backups of it.

Literally this

its the fact that once you go decrypt and open the .txt file you are vulnerable to a keylogger or rat

which is why you have to use a new air gaped computer. luckily laptops are like 300 bucks for working ones that can transfer BTC.

And ideally you would have a more secure system. Many of the current crypto companies outline very secure and elaborate schemes involving multiple physical keys and air gapped hard drives splitting data. ETC.

>secure element

> I remember the seed phrases for both as little songs in my head

Welcome to Veeky Forums! Please feel free to tell us which of one our special little guys piques your interest.

I really don't trust these ledgers. I have never seen them dissected from the firmware up. They are literally made by companies funded by the Chinese government.

By the time they've been shipped to you, your altcoins would've already tanked.

You guys are fucking retards who will lose your coins one day.

I keep all of my crypto on the exchanges because I am not autistic

I have the one pictured, it's pretty sweet. They store certain altcoins but not all - just check on the official sites they'll list what they're compatible with.

Guys,why not just use electrum for btc? it's like a paper wallet on steroids, no private keys exported, seed written down on a piece of paper, and you can withdraw smaller amounts, not like a paper wallet that if you forget and withdraw just a little bit the rest is lost

>implying we don't have backups

>I keep all of my crypto on the exchanges because I am not autistic
if it's on an exchange it's not your crypto

I got a Nano 2 days ago

Super impressed with it

erc20 tokens, including link, yes. you can only store like 5 apps on it at a time though, and it currently doesn't support monero. all i use is bitcoin and eth (erc20) (which is two apps) so it works for me, but be aware of the limitations.

I have a Trezor. It gives me some peace of mind not having to juggle paper wallets or copy/paste private keys.

how is electrum wallet worse than that?
you use password to login, seed is written down on paper only, no private keys exported
am I missing something? at least in terms of btc

can only speak of a ledger, but if i need to enter my key, i have to do so on the device itself. extra security versus keyloggers etc

please more threads like these instead of shillcoins
How do you air-gap a computer if you still need to connect to your network to trade at all? sorry for being a brianlet

No danger of keyloggers or any malicious software since you physically control the funds.

Trezor is similar. You have to enter a pin with your mouse. The keypad shows only shows on the Trezor and the number order is random.

It is air gaped before you first connect. If you run into a random walmart and buy a laptop that has never been connected to the internet with cash, then you can be almost certain it isn't preloaded with a keylogger (unless literally all laptops do, thanks NSA). Regardless, if you want to protect a large amount of bitcoin, this is a good solution. Air Gap = Never Been connected to the internet. You can load the bitcoin onto the laptop then connect to the internet for the first time and be very safe.

All these brainlets who think a ledger/trezor are just fancy USB sticks.

I don't even know why I come on this board.

Do you know how to use google or are you that big of an autistic faggot? Holy shit what arae you even doing in crypto if youre this dumb and helpless?

even if someone keylogges you he can still only have your password which is usless because as far as I know you need the seed phrase to recreate the wallet on a different computer which is written down on paper in your drawer
I mean I'm sure those hardware wallets are nice and all but why spend money when software wallet seems to be equally safe, unless you believe somone is gonna take the control over you pc like in movies and shit

wouldn't reinstalling the system get rid of all supposed keyloggers anyway?

>unless you believe somone is gonna take the control over you pc like in movies and shit
that literally just happened to a guy. can't find the source, maybe someone else remembers. some fairly well-known crypto trader on twitter had his computer remote accessed and his funds stolen. it was going around twitter a week or so ago.

it's what prompted me to buy a ledger in the first place desu.

Most, but no. There are spyware out there that will stick around even if you wipe the harddrive.

damn so is the hardware/paper wallet the onlu safe option?

ledger isn't in the same league as a flash drive; it's basically a microcontroller providing an interface to a secure element.

the keys never leave the secure element, all signing requests take place through a tightly-controlled and thoroughly scrutinized software interface, and the only thing passed over the USB cable is electricity and transaction requests, which have to be confirmed on the ledger itself before it will send back a signed transaction.

it's like having an air gapped PC, but better.

These hardware wallets still use flash memory though, right?
That shit doesn't last forever you know.

Know who you are talking about, but do you happen to know the kind of security setup he had on his PC? Curious because I want to know what failed.

yes, especially if you've got significant holdings.

So you can connect this bitch to a super infected pc and it's still safe?
how do you back up the hardware wallet in case it gets stolen/destroyed?

Dont have a ledger, but I’m quite happy wit my trezor. Stores a few altcoin, was decently fast with enabling BCH withdrawal. A bit pricey though

>hold crypto worth thousands of USD
>too cheap to spend a few bucks on a hardware wallet

if this is you, there is no help

It's just that I don't trust the hardware itself not to fail.
And I also don't trust that there isn't some hidden software in there.

yes; the worst that should be possible is that some malware tries to send signing it's own requests when it detects the ledger is plugged in, in which case you'd notice the discrepancy in the details shown on the ledger's built-in screen when it asks you to confirm the transaction.

when you first set it up, it makes you write down the seed on a piece of paper as a backup and then makes you enter it back in to confirm that you actually wrote it down correctly iirc.

>then makes you enter it back in to confirm that you actually wrote it down correctly iirc
That means the seed phrase is in there somewhere.

only during the initial setup. after you finish that, it programs the secure element and erases the cleartext copy.

He kept backup codes for his gmail account on his computer.

You could throw them in a fire if you wanted to, you still have your seed phrase that's on paper, you're good. Just order another one, boom.

they can store ARK too

its unbelievable right?
its like every day the bar is set lower here on Veeky Forums

Well that's good.

you have just to make sure someone doesnt find your seed, or they can restore your wallet and take all your money lol

Trezors have a full schematic published on their hardware and open source firmware... So I guess they're pretty nice.

trezorfag here
if you have more than five figures in cryptos and are too cheap to spend a hunnid bucks on a hardware wallet, you deserve to lose everything you get

and no its NOT just an usb stick

>PIN protected
>have to sign transactions from wallet with your trezor
>trezor gets damaged/stolen -> no worries, back it up with the seed
>even has security feature to give robbers a fake wallet with minimal amount of btc while keeping the rest

its really a bit tiresome to see all those anons shitting on hardware wallets when its obvious theyve done zero research on it.

getting my nano delivered tomorrow, feels good

what's the consensus on trezor vs ledger though? does the trezor have any features to justify it's slightly higher price?

Is trezor made in China?

This pls.

You're just taking their word for it when you claim it does all that.

ledgerwallet.com/r/5f23

for any biz bros about to order ledger hardware use the link above and my code "LONDONLINK" for a discount at checkout :)

Got a free ark branded nano yesterday from one of the ARK founders.

trezor is built in the Czech Republic AFAIK

that is so fucking dumb I dont even know what to reply
thats like me saying "this car drives me from X to Y" and you say "youre just taking their word from it when you claim it does all that."
please log off the interwebs immediately and think about how that was what you just said

I remember hearing the Trezor was found to have some vulnerability that the other hardware wallets don't. Anyone recall this? Plus it's fucking ugly.

Daytradernik.
If you believe that shitcoin flipping Indian was haxxed and not liquidated when btc mooned this week then I've got a bridge in Sydney with your name on it.

already got patched out

kek, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about you retarded brainlet piece of shit.

> tfw i don't know what is a keylogger

i will really laugh my ass off when you retards will lose all your shitcoins. now go back to do some technical analysis thinking that you're hot shit

it's been patched

The only reason I bought a Trezor was because I could buy it directly from the company. I could only find third-parties selling a Ledger. Would've gotten a Ledger instead just because it's more A E S T H E T I C.

the plastic is super cheap feeling though, i was disappointed. it does look p cool though.

Trezor has been compromised multiple times. Ledger has yet to be.

Hardware wallets are not flash drives but PCs. Fucking retards omg. The average IQ here must be

I have on several vastly geographically separated locations written in invisible ink on (mostly) inside furniture encodings by book chifer referenced to a daily local paper of a date 10+ years backwards in time as to my passphrase words. It is secret, it is safe.