What are some historical examples of successful libertarian societies?

There's none. Since the beginning of trading and moneymaking the markets had to obey the will of the kings and leaders of other kind.

>libertarian societies
>successful

Minecraft

>Veeky Forums doesn't know the difference between libertarianism and anarcho-capitalism
I shouldn't have expected the average IQ on this board to be higher than /pol/, I'm not sure why I did.

Libertarianism doesnt even have a definition anymore anyway. It is basically what the neckbeard identifying as a libertarian says it is

Yes that's exactly what a philistine from /pol/ would say. See it's like I never left!

If you are talking about Catalonia during the civil war, please go ahead and neck yourself.
We are not, I'd say we are more like the jewish community. Nationalistic, closed, greedy, and if everything goes right, influential.

>America is one of the greatest superpowers in world history because of protectionism, public-private partnerships and dedicated infrastructure and education initiatives.

FTFY

>I'd say we are more like the jewish community
jews like Spain more than catalans though. Because they're not whiny losers who gave up having a country to LARP and whine about having one.

>implying the point of libertarianism is to produce a "successful society".

Why would you judge an ideology based on Kantian ethics on what kind of consequences it produces?

Somalia
Mauritania
Atlantis

>libertarian
>societies
Choose one

Lol, source? Many well connected catalans do business and are very fond of israel. Look up Pilar Rahola.

most people don't know the difference outside of Veeky Forums aswell

Most people outside Veeky Forums have never heard of ancaps and know nothing about them. Libertarians are not mainstream, but they're not nearly as obscure as ancaps. It's only on places like /pol/ (and by extension Veeky Forums) that you see people mindlessly repeating ancap memes any time somebody brings up Libertarianism.

Most critics of libertarianism have no concept of what it means to govern a society morally. They see the state as a cudgel to enforce their desires.

Their God's will of Catalans getting shit on

Good luck pablo, if we have to stay in Spain we'll be sure to fill our pockets while we're at it.

grub your pesos as much you like. Every secessionist will continue to get beaten into submission

Nazi Germany was the greatest experiment of National Socialist values. It couldn't even wage a single war without shitting the bed and only lasted less than 20 years

The USSR was the greatest experiment of Socialist values. It took part in several major wars and lasted less than a century

The United States is the greatest experiment of libertarian values. The united states has taken a major role in many wars all across the planet and has been going strong for 300+ years.

The US was never libertarian and free market, what the fuck are you smoking? From day one it was a protectionist country imposing heavy tariffs on imports and redtaping the absolute shit out of everything.

>From day one it was a protectionist country imposing heavy tariffs on imports and redtaping the absolute shit out of everything.

5 seconds of googling.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariff_of_1789

>The Federal legislature, acting under the recently ratified US Constitution, authorized the collection of tariff and tonnage duties to meet the operating costs of the new central government, to provide funds to pay the interest and principal on revolutionary war debts inherited from the Continental Congress

Wow, it almost sounds like the elected government was mostly just trying to repay the money they borrowed from the citizens in ways established by the Treaty of Paris, which I should remind you was supervised by the French who where also at war with Britain at the time. What a breach of classic Libertarian principles, this singular wikipedia article has proven that the early United States was a protectionist 3rd world shithole that was even more oppressive than the Soviet police state and put red tape over everything.

Blow it out your ass cuck.

The only thing modern Libertarianism has in common with the founding of America is the bill of rights. Everything else - protectionist economic policies, denial of the rights of minorities, nondenominational Christianity heavily involved in politics - is more akin to Trumpism.

>trumpism

I can't really produce a source because I'm on mobile but the old west from the movies and the old west in real life were really different. That said, it wasn't really libertarian either as that implies social liberalism and market freedom. Neither of which existed on any meaningful scale back in the day. At least not any more than, say, ebay.

>The United States is the greatest experiment of libertarian values
Liberal, if anything. Libertarianism didn't existed in mainstream American discourse up to 20th century and I don't remember it ever gained enough prominence to call it the ruling ideology.

Are tariffs relevant in this discussion? Because while your country can be libertarian it still has to compete in a protectionist world.

I think the USA could be seen as a society which based itself on certain libertarian principles without embracing them in a dogmatic manner.

>The United States is the greatest experiment of libertarian values
Liberal, if anything. Libertarianism didn't existed in mainstream American discourse up to 20th century and I don't remember it ever gained enough prominence to call it the ruling ideology.

Probably, because Libertarianism falls apart in a world where labor has to be divided and resources are scarce.

I thought communism was the ideology that actually buys into the post-scarcity meme?

Now it is. And we're in debt because of it.
America did not start that way nor proceed that way for 100 years

What is it about Veeky Forums that is so conducive to the production of this level of culture?

The Old West actually wasn't the every-man-for-himself ancap place it's portrayed as. People in small isolated towns rely on each other. Guns were kept track of on the local scale.

The US has been traditionally liberal but not libertarian as a lot of people define it today.

just stop

The American old West was run by the federal army and Marshals, you fucking idiot

libertarian is if anything, a more absolutist form of classical liberalism. The main difference between the two is the liberalism is less dogmatic and allows for a greater degree of compromise.

More like Pinkertons.

Define libertarian

Property rights absolutism.

The United States of America

>Property rights
there is no such right

US has progressive tax rates instead of flat, what the hell is libertarian about that? Actually try elaborating what's libertarian about America because I literally have no clue.

Of course there is, sperg. There may not be a *natural* right to property, but it being socially constructed doesn't mean it isn't real.

>it being socially constructed doesn't mean it isn't real.
it's as real as concepts of evolution, dna, and the trinity being God.

Are you saying DNA is a social construction?

>it's as real as concepts of evolution, dna, and the trinity being God.

No, it's way more real than those things, because none of those things have the power of hundreds of thousands of police officers and their firearms behind them.

>because none of those things have the power of hundreds of thousands of police officers and their firearms behind them.
nowhere are rights to property held in any country. Or there would be no way to remove their property from them. Rights are inalienable.
that its not real

Okay, you're obviously trolling.

>i beileve in spooks
take the wool of your eyes and read plato's theories of inherited forms

lol, I fucking knew it. You were either trolling or you were a "I've just read Stirner and now I have become lefty/pol/ ok? Praise Bakunin".

Have fun fagtron.

>implying America is libertarian in any way

W E W L A D

>succesful

No, they just understand that letting people "do whatever they want if they can make a profit at it, what are so mad about LOL" isn't the height of morality.

I'd that why they want more African migrants?

Pol probably had the highest Iq on Veeky Forums

Carrying a firearm was illegal for anyone not deputized in almost every city of any size.

So any taxation at all is a violation of the libertarian principle?

>successful libertarian societies?

The USSR.
>Gun rights
>free expression
>private property
>high levels of home ownership
>religious hub
>center of culture and arts built from grassroots
>high investment in individual enterprise
>high level of investment in small-medium enterprises
>well developed dual system of state and private education
>a culture that tests norms without breaking them or ignoring them
>farmer subsidies exist but only for struggling family farmers

I sincerely agree. It's very noticeable.

America became great because of libertarianism, now it too statist and regulated

Please tell me which American president called himself a "libertarian".

Please tell me where I suggested they were libertarians.

Marshals were needed BECAUSE the feds had no control. And typically there was only one in the largest town in a county. Even then, his power was only as much as the locals gave him and how many deputies he could hire. He couldn’t snap his fingers and have the army show up, he was pretty much on his own.

I think that this statement is somewhat more true than it would appear. U.S government had a miniscule involvement in the economy before 1910s, and their main economic effect was in foreign trade.

nvm, but tell me when do you think did libertarianism appeared in American political discourse?

>Please tell me which American president called himself a "libertarian".
All of them. In spirit of course.

Which is why the areas that make up the area are the most economically irrelevant ones in US aside from Texas (where the economically predominent zone is Eastern Texas, that was never part of the wild west)?

DA SOUTH

>Projecting ideologies to times before they existed

I hope you are not doing this.

Libertarianism is classical liberalism. I don't see why you're caught up on two different words for the same thing. Describe libertarianism and then look at what the founding fathers were trying to create. The only difference is the founding fathers wanted property owners(aka 90+ IQ) voters and European men(the more Anglo the better, truly ahead of their time).

As long as it's coerced yes, obviously. You might not like it, but libertarians are consistent with their moral theory.

Rome and Athens.

Holy fuck. A John Wayne movie isn't a credible source.

>America is one of the greatest superpowers in the world because of geography.

fixed

None. Libertarianism was created by people who don't have the mental or moral capacity to envision an economy that functions in any meaningful way beyond basic primitive means of exchange. It is the economic model of the mediocre, drug addicted, and downright immoral.

>denial of the rights of minorities

what are you talking about, I have plenty of rights

>Marshals were needed BECAUSE the feds had no control.
Because the feds had DIRECT control.

Many of the territories weren't even states yet.

>>Libertarianism is classical liberalism
>Both of those (and neoliberalims) are the Babylonian kind of neologisma that are not clearly defined and thus mean different things in different situation or even when said by different people. However they are not the same thing.
>Neither of those existed during Amerinan war of independence

>The only difference is the founding fathers wanted property owners(aka 90+ IQ) voters and European men(the more Anglo the better, truly ahead of their time).
Which is pretty damn major difference.

However you still fail to understand that in American political discourse "Libertarianism" splintered in 20th century and IIRC never took ruling position. American founding fathers did not had to deal with all the advanced economical theoeries we do now, thus had no reason to differentiate between the different shades of liberalism.

>Describe libertarianism
I can't, libertarianists range from KKK folks to feminist slut-advocates. You need to give me political party/movement/school of through.

>USSR
>gun rights
What the literal fuck?
t. Hohol

Well that's hard to pin down, certainly modern libertarians can point to several things in US history and claim they align with libertarianism because classical liberalism and libertarianism have a lot in common. But I dont think it really became a distinct thing until the fifties or sixties, at least if you're talking about the pure intellectual kind.

Well, a smoothbore or a hunting rifle is still a gun, no?

So this means that basically every society ever to exist more than a decade or so was not libertarian then?

THIS THIS THIS

See Ha-Joon Chang's "Bad Samaritans".

>2017
>historical examples of libertarian societies
Anything before 1960s, is by modern standards, authoritarian.

>A hunting-gathering society was authoritarian

authoritarian
ɔːˌθɒrJˈtɛːrJən/Submit
adjective
adjective: authoritarian
1.
favouring or enforcing strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.
"the transition from an authoritarian to a democratic regime"
synonyms: autocratic, dictatorial, totalitarian, despotic, tyrannical, autarchic, draconian, absolute, arbitrary, oppressive, repressive, illiberal, undemocratic, anti-democratic; More
antonyms: democratic, liberal, lenient, permissive
showing a lack of concern for the wishes or opinions of others; dictatorial.
"he had an authoritarian and at times belligerent manner"