Sleep bad = life is shit

sleep bad = life is shit
sleep good = not so shit anymore

why is sleep the deciding factor in everything?

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examine.com/supplements/melatonin/
thelastpsychiatrist.com/2007/07/the_most_important_article_on.html
justgetflux.com/
youtube.com/watch?v=ueAYUp4rHZI
twitter.com/AnonBabble

I'm more interested in why I naturally gravitate to going to bed way too late. It seems to be genetic because my dad is the same. Unlike me he has been getting up at 5 am or earlier for the past 30 years. Yet he still goes to bed at 2 am, just like I naturally tend to do.

There are rare occasions when I will be exhausted and go to bed early (say, 10 pm) and feel great the next day, and when that happens I wonder if it could be like that all the time. But usually the next day I'm right back to my routine of staying up past midnight.

Have you tried Melatonin? I had your same problem when I was young and my folks just said I was being stubborn. Yet, after I got older I realized I really did want to sleep but my body wouldn't want to settle down. Just start off with a 1 mg around 30 min before you want to sleep and increase the dose slightly every night until you get tired at the right time that you want to start sleeping.

Keep in mind it doesn't work for everyone and don't worry about it being dependent or harmful. I've had 3 doctors tell me it's fine to use since it is only an herb and all natural.

>only a herb

So is weedlmao. I'll look into it but I can't imagine adding that agent into my system would not somehow upset the balance and potentially make things worse once I stop taking it.

yeah weed isn't bad user :^)

>there are concrete pharmacological detriments to cannabis that are supported by academic literature
Enlighten me.

I don't have any scientific sources, just a decade of experience smoking weed myself and being around a lot of other people who smoke(d) weed. Weed smokers are generally lazy and feel justified in being so. Some people become paranoid/anti-social on weed (could have something to do with the fact that it's criminal so you start worrying about getting caught buying/transporting that shit). Some women become sluts, some men become douchebags on weed. And habitual smokers will never get anywhere in life, they just waste away rolling one joint after another, always out of money because they spend it all on weed. Weed can absolutely addict people, I've seen it happen to others and I've felt the habit forming myself at points.

From your personal experience does all of this sound outlandish? Are the weedsmokers you know ALL just casual smokers who have their priorities straight, are actively pursuing realistic goals in their lives, don't spend too much on the habit, don't smoke every week, can enjoy themselves sober etc.? Or are a significant number of them neurotic bums going nowhere in life?

Are you afraid of the silence that comes when you try to sleep? Are you afraid of being left alone with your thoughts?

I smoke 3 bowls a day and i have a solid GPA at my U. Money isn't a problem when you're dead inside and don't spend money on anyone or anything except for food, insurance, and weed. Feels good man.

Supplementing your own melatonin is safe. It's not a foreign substance. The effect of supplementation isn't large either. Regarding why you gravitate to going to bed too late, some people are born with a 25 or 26 hour biological clock. You might just be naturally fucked up and incapable of following the sleeping pattern society requires without adjusting your system. If you think every person is perfectly adjusted to the bodily requirements of modern life you are totally wrong. There's plenty of completely natural and normal things people are born with that are inherently harmful for health in today's environment. You don't want to shy away from adjusting your body just because it wouldn't be natural. Natural isn't equivalent with good.

I 100% agree with you. I myself struggle with weed addiction it's very real and because weed is so "harmless" it's extremely hard to quit when you have an addictive personality. Weed makes you think being lazy is okay and lots of people I know are just smoking away their days and brains.

Not really, I cherish long walks alone, couldn't do that if I was running from my thoughts. Interesting idea though.

Its not a fuckin herb its a hormone

>my life is shit and I hate it and I have severe mental issues but it's okay because I keep my grades up and get high to forget how much I hate my life

You do realise that you're proving his point and that weed allows you to ignore the things that makes you feel like shit and therefore you never work on them?

I think theres a porn vid of this post sauce

Have you tried having self discipline?

Yeah man, I've been trying this new herb called hemlock. Shits so fucking cash. All natural.

>dead inside
>Feels good man.

Mixed signals.

You smoke cigarettes? The only way to quit weed in that case is to quit smoking altogether. No more smoke of any kind entering your lungs, ever again. Make that committment right now and you will be free, just like that.

Of course this means you can no longer slack off and rely on smoking supplying you with occasions to talk to people or giving you something to hold on to when you feel insecure in social situations. That's the hardest part imo. Relearning to be a normal person who can function without the crutch.

This. Just go to sleep earlier you fucking faggot. It's not genetics. You just lack the discipline to put down the phone/turn off the TV/computer.

same.

if i dont get enough sleep i feel like a piece of shit and make no gains.

when i tell people they should sleep more dey go

>hurr i only need 6 hours of sleep, i dont know why but its enough for me

and then they are stressed out acne filled eye bagged no gains making low energized pieces of shit and wonder why.

and when i tell them that literally everyone says the same shit dey go like:

>hurr no its only me, other people need more sleep but i function best with only 6 or less hurr hurr

and as soon as they actually try getting more sleep, they come back to me and be like

>hurr you were fucking right brah holy shit i have never felt so good before

and im like

>i told you fgt

Because it's during sleep that major regeneration takes place. People that sleep too little eventually go crazy (psychosis, structural degeneration) and die earlier.
Melatonin is not a herb, lol. It's synthesized from serotonin in the brain. It works by regulating the biological clock, but has no hypnotic (sedative) properties on its own.
The only problem is that body has tight regulation systems on hormones, so when you introduce high amounts of exogenous hormone, the body stops producing it to maintain balance. So, short term use of melatonin is the only way to be safe. It's definitely not a supplement like B vitamins.
There's ton of natural substances that are extremely poisonous and from which we derived the synthetic versions. "All natural so it's good" is a meme.

>when you introduce high amounts of exogenous hormone, the body stops producing it to maintain balance

True, but your body may simply not produce the right amounts naturally. You can't trust nature to do the right thing for you. Melatonin is cheap. Having to take it for the rest of your life is a small price to pay for sleeping well during that life.

Like I said, melatonin is not a hypnotic. It does not cause sleep. It is merely involved in daily waking-sleep cycles. It starts being synthesized in high amounts during the onset of darkness and this is true for everyone, yet, you don't just feel sleepy when it's dark, but rather, after a certain amount of hours. You become sleepy faster if you have a sleep deficit and/or got tired by working.

>Some people are born with a 25 or 26 hour biological clock

I have this. It's called Non-24. Before some dweeb comes in suggesting I turn off the computer, I've had issues falling asleep since I was a small child; had terrible behavior because of that. After I was homeschooled, my sleep schedule pretty much immediately started rotating, and the behavior issues stopped. I spent a month over the summer without a computer, and still the same thing happened to my sleep.

Although I don't think I'll ever have it fully under control, melatonin is a god-send in helping to manage it. I also get a prescription for midazolam (fun fact: some states have started using this in their lethal injection cocktail) which I take occasionally when I have to sleep at a certain time. I've tried using and abstaining from caffeine; some get better consistency without it, but personally I find the assistance in dealing with fatigue and drowsiness to outweigh the slight amount it makes sleep wonkier than it already is.

also can confirm sleep is far, far more important than people realize; bad sleep can bring about terrible depression, not to mention being stuck up at night and sleeping all day is pretty fuckin' bad for social/academic/career life. Anxiety about insomnia also happens to be something that can cause insomnia. Being completely unable to wake yourself up before your internal clock is ready, to the point of turning off alarms and telling people to leave you alone without any conscious awareness or memory of doing so, is somewhat terrifying. Waking up (and being unable to continue sleeping) after only a few hours of sleep because your body thinks it's time to get up is awful. Waking up with light outside and without my alarm blaring sends me into a panic. Hard to keep control over, and life is much harder when you have a sleep disorder doing it's thing.

Melatonin is made in the gut

>Taking melatonin is not associated with negative feedback (when taking supplementation causes your body to produce less of a hormone). It is also not addictive, and is not toxic.
examine.com/supplements/melatonin/


That being said, I only take it 1-2x a month

Can confirm (as can all of us)

I've been going to bed way too late for weeks, but I went to bed earlier last night and Jesus H. Christ I feel fantastic. Haven't been able to get much done these last few weeks either, but now holy coca colee.

This refutes what he said how?

>if you take melatonin your body will make even less of the hormone it makes nowhere near enough of which is the reason you're supplementing it in the first place
I don't see the problem

you take it for a few days to a week just to try and set a new sleep schedule

>melatonin is not a hypnotic. It does not cause sleep.

But it is hypnotic. It's not like other hypnotics that change sleep architecture and it's strength in inducing sleep is weak by comparison. It increases sleep propensity and when taken at a time when sleep propensity is already rising (like 1-3 hours before ordinary bedtime) it can cause sleep to occur earlier if you're trying to fall asleep. It certainly can't knock you out if you stay up and active. The circadian rhythm which dictates when you can fall asleep is affected by exogenous melatonin. So the effect of exogenous is really only felt noticeably in limited circumstances but it has an effect nonetheless.

Have you heard of taking low doses of mirtazapine for inducing sleepiness? The dose that induces the highest short-term sleepiness is around 4.5mg. I visited a doctor complaining about not being able to fall asleep easily and she prescribed this for me citing a study where they found that low doses had a short-term sleepiness effect that peaked, on average, at 4.5mg. I tried googling for this study but couldn't find any references at the moment. But when I did this myself it did precisely that. After taking a third of a 15mg tablet i'd get intensely sleepy about 30min later and be able to easily fall asleep. If I failed to fall asleep the sleepiness would have completely passed after an hour or so.

If you want to understand how different doses of the same drug can have different effects, then read this:
thelastpsychiatrist.com/2007/07/the_most_important_article_on.html

I haven't heard of that, although those effects are about the same as what I experience with melatonin %90 of the time (melatonin is of course very effective when taken within a few hours before your natural bedtime, and very ineffective when taken in the middle of your circadian day). I live in Asia, though, and doctors are pretty reluctant to give out drugs. I have to get melatonin mailed to me or bring bottles back when I travel, because it's not available (and possibly not even legal) locally. Antidepressants and adderall might be a good idea for me, but apart from being stubborn and not wanting to use them, I also am afraid that seeming like I'm seeking drugs or making up conditions, or worse, possibly suicidal, would cause doctors here to cut off the sleep medication which is one of the few things that makes my disorder mostly manageable.

Not that it's really logical not to give me any of these drugs, but where in the west doctors actually sometimes listen to the patient, doctors here are of the just stuff a bag of pills at you, don't explain what they're for (if they're not completely useless and/or unrelated to whatever issues you're having), don't tell you if you're dying, etc. camp of "Doctor Knows Best". Patients coming in asking for specific drugs is not really something that happens; most people have no clue what drugs they're even on.

Causal smoker for the past 20 years here. Own a house outright, married 8 years, successful career, Masters degree. Life is good.

Everything comes down to personal accountability. Some people got it together and some do not and blame their vices.

I always gravitated towards being awake during the night, waking up late morning.

Then I tried f.lux and everything changed. I think mostly I was staying awake because of blue light. At least with f.lux on my machine justgetflux.com/ and using an iPad which has a night light mode which is pretty much the same I now fall asleep at 12am and wake up at 8:15 am

All in all I would recommend it, getting used to your screen changing colors takes a couple of weeks, but it has helped my quality of sleep quite a bit.

Holy shit guys is there a science between sleep position? I just slept on my back for the first time all year and had the best sleep ever, my posture feels better, my sinuses are better, my mind feels perfectly relaxed yet focused. I usually sleep in fetal btw.

Also should I get a humidifier if it's dry where I live?

>"masters degree"
>can't spell "casual"

He is a causal smoker, as he only smokes in certain circumstances.

Say, when drinking a beer. Which causes him to grab a smoke.

> that guy that has conversations with himself on Veeky Forums

I also did this with SunsetScreen which can be set to follow a set time instead following the sun which is not useful. I use a sleep mask too, make sure to go to bed at the same time every day and listen to calm and quiet music while reading for 30-45min until I'm sleepy enough. Only by doing all this have I been able to keep my sleep duration and quality sufficient after having had trouble falling asleep all my life.

how do you guys relax everyday? I always get really stressed out for no reason.

when I think about the empty blackness that will be my reality for eternity some day I panic and realize there's literally nowhere to run so I've been up for almost a day now

I want to go to sleep but I get stressed out
I started getting light flutters in my chest when I try to sleep last week and it feels like I need to manually breathe cause my body wont do it automatically, legit think I got triggered by the recent police shootings cause I'm black and got stopped by cops for the first time 2 months ago at night and it escalated because they thought I was trying to run away but I just wasnt sure where to stop and he ended up just wanted to tell me my license plate light was out

Yes you will die someday. It's the fate of all things that live in this universe.

You know your time is limited yet you waste it fearing something that is as inevitable and expected as the sun rise.

Accept it as the doom of all life, live your life in the best way you can, and put this out of your mind.

>empty blackness that will be my reality for eternity
you wont be conscious for it. before you were born, it was likely the same, but you werent conscious for it and it wasnt a burden on you in any way

>tfw

youtube.com/watch?v=ueAYUp4rHZI

Melatonin makes me wake up in the middle of the night.
I've been thinking of smoking weed or using xanax to help me get to sleep on time because I constantly stay up way too late. I don't smoke weed now, but friends say it helps them sleep. I don't like the idea of using exogenous chemicals to assist in sleeping, but...I'm running out of ideas.

There's evidence that mirtazapine increases melatonin secretion during sleep. Mirtazapine is used as a sleep aid so you could get a prescription from a doctor by complaining about trouble sleeping and asking for it.

It probably has to do with light.

Are you watching TV, playing video games, reading with lights on?

In a study that showed people who work the night are more unacceptable to cancer they also discovered that there's a wavelength of light that "wakes" the body naturally. It's the blue spectrum and its most prevalent around 10am.

Since everyone has different tolerance levels to everything it may be that your exposure to more light at night time keeps your body from producing the chemicals it needs to naturally fall asleep.

>decide to drink lots of water to stay hydrated
>wake up every morning at 3am to take a piss

how long before bedtime should i stop drinking and eating?

The bladder processes urine at X amount of drops per minute. IF you want to drink before bed drink an amount of water that won't overfill your bladder while you're sleeping.

This requires you to find out the average bladder size, average "droplet" size, and do maths.

fuck

Need to go to bed early because need to wake up early!

>can't fall asleep for at least an hour and wake up feeling like shit
or
>wake up at shitfuck AM when it's dark and cold for a piss THEN can't fall asleep afterwards

Hey weekend starts tomorrow! Can't wait to do all those exciting things on Saturday!

>wake up at something like 9AM after solid 8 hours of sleep with a massive headache like I'm hungover without actually drinking anything on friday, it's only over on sunday and I'm like a zombie the entire saturday

>sleep only a few hours every day for a certain period of time due to insomnia
>don't even bother going to bed early cause falling asleep is impossible
>exhausted all the time, feel like I actually suffer from a mental disorder

>all of a sudden one day I feel more chill and sleep early
>from 1am to 11am
>still wake up feeling tired and sleepy

any medfag here? I've been thinking it could be a thyroid problem, because I just feel bad all the time, although I got a blood test months ago and the thyroid values were normal.
It could also be meme depression or some mental disorder? anxiety?

IDK about OP but I sure am. Fuck.

Tfw i have to wake up in 3 hours

I go through this so much. Fuck.

That weird feeling when you and another user start and finish peeing at the same time in a public lavatory.

>wash your hands

>live under Heathrow flight path
>planes at all hours of the day and night
life is truly suffering

Being in a dim/dark room makes you naturally more tired, looking directly at light artificial or not will keep you up longer so just do something else for 30 minutes with no screens.
Fuck right a poem if you have to.

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