Why is it more socially acceptable to fly a USSR flag than a Nazi flag when the USSR was objectively a worse regime...

The ideology behind the USSR is far superior to the ideology behind Nazi Germany, even if the regime was worse.

>kill all the rich people lmao
That's a pretty shit ideology.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
You sure about that?

>bans religion
>bans personal property
>bans means of production so there's almost no amateur hobbyist movements
>bans home ownership
>bans freedom of expression
>your boss and corporation is also your government and also your union
>transportation and communication are supposed to be held by the state but the state has to lease them out to keep up with western standards
>has two of Russia's worst famines in a decade of one another
>higher ranks still own dacha's anyways despite bullshitting low IQ literal plebs with talk about equality
>people are still falling for this
>and all it took was a civil war that killed 7-12 million people and costed them to lose a world war
>and the commies immediately invade invade eastern europe anyways because they lost land
>and can't feed their people
>even though they were shouting "peace land and bread" three years earlier

Which race were they trying to exterminate, exactly?

>socially acceptable to fly a USSR flag
Playing the Soviets in Red Alert was enough for dad to give me an hour long lecture on the evils of communism.

>this terrible regime killed millions of people!
>yeah well THIS terrible regime killed tens of million of people!
Jesus Christ this is the worst kind of dick comparing

>tfw I just remember the ridiculous lyrics of Soviet songs in RA3

>first mission
>strafing civilians with YAKs
good times

>killing over 60 million people is ok as long as it's not racially or ethnically based

Nobody is saying its OK.

You just moved the goalposts straight into the ocean.

>bans means of production so there's almost no amateur hobbyist movements
pretty much false
We've got hobbyist magazines from the soviet union, even on computing (oddly enough)
>>and all it took was a civil war that killed 7-12 million people and costed them to lose a world war
Lol do you suppose they could have kept fighting

One is shit in practice, the other is shit both is theory and in practice. If can be a commie without supporting genocide but it's part of the nazi ideology.

One can be*

This really does sum it up. The Nazi's were destroyed, the Soviets petered out and put on business suits and run things as "President" and "Prime Minister" now

>the Holodomor killed 60 million people

none of what you've just posted is true, Nazis were a fascist regime who systematically killed anyone they thought of as subhuman.

The USSR morphed into something completely different after Lenin, but Lenin's original red terror was completely justified. The rich, landlords, etc deserved what happened to them.

>We've got hobbyist magazines from the soviet union, even on computing (oddly enough)

For mechanics and tech boys mostly starting in the 70's and into the 80's. In the early USSR it was basically non-existent. It wouldn't be fair to say the hobbyist movement was as significant in the USSR as it is anywhere else in European countries or America.

>Lol do you suppose they could have kept fighting

I'm supposing they shouldn't have to begin with.

Where does the 60 million figure come from in relation to the ussr?

Are Jews more of a "race" than Ukrainians? Race is pretty poorly defined but I think a religious group is on par with an ethnic group.

>The rich, landlords, etc deserved what happened to them.
How is this different to saying the Jews deserved what happened to them?

Jews are an ethnicity. Also, the Holodomor didn't target Ukrainian as an ethnicity.

The famine didn't target ukrainians specifically. It affected all ethnic groups in the ukrainian countryside, which of course was majority ukrainian, and was part of famines that affected other parts of the ussr too (like kazakhs).

Use your brain. One was an ethnic group of people, most of which were poor, the other were exploiting the lower classes for labour and money.

>Civil War = 7-12 million
>Invasion of Poland and Baltic States = +300k
>Famine of 1921-22 = 3-5 million
>purges,executions, Gulag deaths, residual shortages anywhere from 8-20 million, certainly that later number despite CPRF denies it. The 20 million figure includes the Yezhovschina, Beria's Era, and Yagoda's kill counts(but using Yagoda's low end figure, his high is allegedly 12 million but generally that number is doubted).
>Holodomor = 3-6 million, contested
>Three wars with Finland, not including civil = about 500k

This is includes the continuation war, but not the war with Poland. So this is up to the mid 40's and doesn't include anything concerning ww2.

A higher percentage of Kazahks were killed than Ukrainians.

Literally
>Their hearts were in the right place, they just fucked up everything else

Rinse and repeat for every other failed not!socialist regime

Jews are not a single ethnicity, there are multiple and all were targeted. And the UN found that Ukrainians were specifically targeted.

>the other were exploiting the lower classes for labour and money.
Actually both were doing this.

Same with confederate flag, you can yell "muh states rights and southern pride" all you want, it doesn't change the fact that the flag stood for slavery.

And there were 50-80 million WW2 deaths, all which can be attributed to Adolf. So why is OP pretending that Stalin was so much worse than Hitler?
A better question, why do people feel compelled to measure the two against each other and try to find the "lesser of two evils?"

...

They keep inflating it. to cry about muh nazis dindunuffin

Soviet regime probably killed around 30 million in total which is less than nazis

>Well yes we killed ~30 million, but hey, at least it wasn't about race!

America has more Jews than Ukrainians.

I'm all for shitting on tankies but your numbers are overblown and comparing genocide to civil war is ridiculous. And even then you're still far from 60 million.

I don't know where you live but where I live flying the commie flag would make you a pariah on par with flying the swastika. Literally nobody would offer you a job if they heard you were an out and out soviet sympathizer.

you still aren't using your brain. Do some critical thinking here user.

what the fuck is a chud

Some of the most blistering critique of the Soviet Union I have heard in America came from Jews who escaped Stalin's purges.

>the flag stood for slavery
Is that supposed to be a bad thing?

He lives in Burgermuttland where the average schmoe can wave a Soviet or Nazi flag and no one would bat an eyelash

>exploiting the lower classes for labour and money
You're describing the Jews right?

>One was an ethnic group of people, most of which were poor, the other were exploiting the lower classes for labour and money.

That's some impressive indoctrination

history.hanover.edu/courses/excerpts/111stalin.html

>"An offensive against the kulaks is a serious matter." -Stalin, declaring war on his own people

>5% of top farmers want to own means of production and improve the other 95%
>"Somebody wants means of production you say...?"
>Take their expert advice and improve farming techniques and meet the demands of the people?
>NO! KILL THEM AND TAKE THEIR LAND!

>And there were 50-80 million WW2 deaths, all which can be attributed to Adolf

First off, I never defended Adolf or Nazi's. Second off, that doesn't take into consideration that Britain and France declared war on Germany, or that Soviet losses were significant due to their own mismanagement. In "Panzer Operations", Hoth mentions that the USSR was sending the Germans supplies after they captured towns for up to two days only to be captured. They took 2.8 million losses within the first year.

>A better question, why do people feel compelled to measure the two against each other and try to find the "lesser of two evils?"

I don't know, you tell me. You just did it.

>I'm all for shitting on tankies but your numbers are overblown and comparing genocide to civil war is ridiculous. And even then you're still far from 60 million.

Not even remotely. Those numbers are what has been generally accepted for at least 20 years now. And the Civil war, initiated by the Communists, also included purges. It wasn't like the American revolution.

No-one had any issue with the Confederate Flag until the internet started making people autistic

I'm sure, but all the Jews I've meet are far more viscerally offended by the swastika than the hammer and sickle.

They're both shit in theory and practice.
Jesus Christ, I hate the meme that "Communism is good in theory but bad in practice," because it's not good in theory at all.

what fat #wokeleft soyboys call alt-right soyboys

I am not saying that it was on the same scale as the rest of the world, but "almost none" is quite the exaggeration. There's articles on soviet pin collecting and memoir accounts of local amateur sports leagues. And, of course, late Soviet magazines.

Are you referring to the civil war or the world war? To me, it seems as though you are under the impression the civil war is the reason they had to sign brest-litovsk.

>Those numbers are what has been generally accepted for at least 20 years now
lol

This. It was literally a normal thing in movies, videogames, sports, plenty of rock and metal bands used it. Then around 2015 some retards on the internet launched this avalanche of retardation because some kid shot up some black grannies in a church.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Jewish_Labour_Bund_in_Lithuania,_Poland_and_Russia

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Jewish_Labor_Bund

Interdasting

And how much of those 7-12 million were purged rather than combat casualties

Have you ever investigated the sources in that image yourself?

Do you know who "George A. Simmons" is or why he would know anything about the ethnic composition of the Bolshevik central committee?

Civil war.

Alternative site maybe? I'm looking and all I'm finding is what I said. I've been reading about this stuff for about a decade, and I used to be a die hard socialist so I remember being in just as much denial. Just admit this is emotional and move forward.

Hard to say. Either way the communists initiated the civil war. Just above we had an user blame all of ww2 on Hitler, even for countries declaring war on Hitler, but we can't apply the principle of aggression to communists in the civil war they caused? I smell bias.

solargeneral.org/wp-content/uploads/library/dr-hermann-greife-slave-labor-in-soviet-russia-1937.pdf

Read more.

Why don't the Jews just apologise for Bolshevism, like Germans apologised for Nazism?

>Not even remotely. Those numbers are what has been generally accepted for at least 20 years now.
I'd like a detail on the 20 million figure then. Snyder says that:
>It turns out that, with the exception of the war years, a very large majority of people who entered the Gulag left alive. Judging from the Soviet records we now have, the number of people who died in the Gulag between 1933 and 1945, while both Stalin and Hitler were in power, was on the order of a million, perhaps a bit more. The total figure for the entire Stalinist period is likely between two million and three million.
Since the purges are 1-2 million more, we still have 15 million to go taking the highest estimates. Seems overblown to me. And even then you're far from 60 million. Overblown number upon overblown number.

>And the Civil war, initiated by the Communists, also included purges
You're not counting only purges though.

Because the nazi flag is currently being used by a cult that has little to do with the original workers party, and a lot to do with heroin and organized crime.

Cannibalistic Humanoid Underground Dweller

>solargeneral.org/wp-content/uploads/library/dr-hermann-greife-slave-labor-in-soviet-russia-1937.pdf
So you don't know who George Simons is or what his historical expertise is on that question is

do you also believe the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a real Jewish document? maybe don't believe everything you read, because the people telling you Bolsheviks were a Jewish conspiracy are the same people who post infographs on Veeky Forums "disproving" the holocaust.

he's a lefty soyboy sjw cuck like you, wrekt

The Holodomor killed about 5 million people by most estimates. The great purge killed about 600,000-2 million by most estimates. The GULAG killed about two million people if you consider the official tally to be only half of the real number.

Israeltimes reported that Putin said that 80-85% of early USSR leadership was jewish. They praised themselves for it. They do this all the time on their media. They don't give a shit about how much destruction they caused. They relish it.

>Snyder
Literally who?

>was on the order of a million, perhaps a bit more. The total figure for the entire Stalinist period is likely between two million and three million.

That's even worse than I thought. Most were executed outright or died from malnutrition.

>You're not counting only purges though.

No, and there's no reason why the communists shouldn't be accountable for the civil war they started so they could implement this:

I do. If I say I do, does it matter? You will believe what you want anyways. I'm trying to feed you real material and you just deny, ignore it, and attack me for something you don't even know about. Just admit this response and line of argument isn't reasonable and is based on attacking the opponent instead of the argument itself.

Oh they hated Nazis too, but why are you assuming that it is a zero sum game? That if you hate Nazis you can't also hate Stalin and the Soviet Union? The Jews did not have friends in either Russia or Germany in WW2, though they were once powerful interest groups in both.

Calm down Shlomo, I'm just aware that as a Middle Eastern ethnoreligious group that's faced constant persecution by homogenous societies Jewish interests aren't exactly aligned with my own - and if push comes to shove, Jews would happily undermine my people to ensure Jewish survival in my nation

Also, no middleman minority is built on anything except ethnocentric exploitation of the wider masses
>OY GEVALT, IT'S NOT MY FAULT YOU DUMB GOYIM WON'T HIRE YOUR BROTHER'S FRIEND'S COUSIN BECAUSE HE SHARES THE SAME RELIGION!

>doesn't know about Timothy Snyder
He wrote "Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin."

>great purge killed about 600,000-2 million by most estimates.

That's ONLY Yezhovschina and does not include the Beria period or the Yagoda period.

>The GULAG killed about two million people if you consider the official tally to be only half of the real number
Here's your problem:
>official tally

Believing murderous psychopaths whose whole ideology revolves around banning things and repo schemes.

t. communist

>Moving the goalpost this fucking hard

You're literally citing my graphic. Are you retarded? Did you think I wouldn't read the bottom of my own graphics? I try to use graphics that cite information. No, I didn't make the graphic but what did you think the point of pointing out what it says is? There's no way you're older than 17.

>it's another "Liberals STAND for something episode"
Fuck off, nobody who talks like this has principles.

The Yezhovshchina was the peak of the killings. The other two killed fewer.
>official tally
That's why I said the actual number may be closer to two million.

>Literally who?
Go back to /pol/ pls.

>That's even worse than I thought.
No, it's not "even worse" than the number necessary to reach the 20 million you posted. It's significantly less.

>No, and there's no reason why the communists shouldn't be accountable for the civil war they started so they could implement this
Debatable.

>I'm trying to feed you real material and you just deny, ignore it
I'm not that guy, but you aren't. I'm pretty sure I explained to you some days ago why the sources in that pic are shit, and even linked to the document to prove that the people were just going on rumors. Yet you are posting it again. You don't care about "real material", you care about spreading your propaganda. Hell, you just asked "literally who?" when I mentioned snyder, which is one of the (actually legit) sources in your infograph, which shows us how little you research the propaganda you vomit.

Then my question still stands regarding the world war: do you figure they could have continued fighting it in the first place?

>I smell bias
says the guy trusting a subcommittee interviewing randos
In any case, as the legitimate governing authority in the russian territory, it's clear who is the one on offense and the one on defense.

If you looked at the source you'd know who Timothy Snyder is.

He asked for material on Simons and all you did was give an article about an entirely different period than the subcommittee hearing in which Simons name is not mentioned.
>does it matter?
To you it doesn't, I suppose. You'll believe what you want anyways.

As much as of an inept dumbass Stalin was, he don't have an autistic plan to change the demographic of the world by exterminating all the untermensch user. That means killing more than 300 million people.
You could meme all you want about Holodomor, but the famine was not in anyway planned and was more of a sign of overbearing bureaucracy and governmental incompetence.

>Did you think I wouldn't read the bottom of my own graphics?
>synder? literally who?

>can't argue against it
>"ummm I got to attack him back for shaming my ideology!"
>sees another user post something about goalposts
>"heh, we got him now boys, no way he can attack l'gommunismus now"

Meanwhile, my face

>The Yezhovshchina was the peak of the killings. The other two killed fewer.

False. Read about Yagoda. His highest rates are 6 times higher than Yezhov's. And it makes sense, given the time scale one would expect the later purges to be less brutal than the earlier ones if there were in fact that many dissidents.

>No, it's not "even worse" than the number necessary to reach the 20 million you posted. It's significantly less.

No sweetie, read the rest of the post and think this through.

>Debatable.

The fuck? Is this bait? Are you just here to shitpost? There's no way the communists aren't solely responsible. You can't have a "communist revolution" and then just pretend the communists dindu nuffin because it placates your passivist sensibilities. Proof that gommies have no intellectual integrity.

>I'm pretty sure I explained to you some days ago why the sources in that pic are shit, and even linked to the document to prove that the people were just going on rumors.

No you didn't. I wasn't that guy. Care to explain how it's rumors, because instead of claiming that you can debunk something, you might as well just put the effort into debunking it. I do know you from threads about a month ago though. You jump on a bunch of threads and claim that the other persons arguments have been dissected but never actually do it. You don't think that actually makes progress do you? It's a baseless claim, like everything else you stated. And it would've made more sense to say "literally which", I'll grant that.

>Then my question still stands regarding the world war: do you figure they could have continued fighting it in the first place?

I was discussing the civil war they started. They lost land and reinvaded it.

Snyder is an American retard married to a Jew connected to George Soros, who's been touring Eastern Europe and amerisplaining Eastern European history to actual Eastern Europeans.

Correct.
Pretty insulting if you ask me.

>and all it took was a civil war that killed 7-12 million people and costed them to lose a world war
>costed them to lose the world war
Dance around the question all you want, all I have to do is point out your own words.
Again: do you suppose they could have continued fighting it?

Bolshevism was a mistake. Hitlers regime was arguably trying to fix the mistake of Wilhelm's and the Jewish betrayal. Usury is a Christian sin.

>Read about Yagoda. His highest rates are 6 times higher than Yezhov's.
Then why do most sources claim that the Yezhovshchina was the peak of the terror?

> I'm trying to feed you real material
If you read the source in your own image you'll find the testimony is literally hearsay. He says "i heard from a source that (bolshevik committee is 95% yiddish)".

This isn't an academic examination of the ethnic composition. It wasn't a serious and deliberate attempt to examine the figures involved in the Bolshevik revolution. It's an American ex-pat passing along second hand information from an unnamed figure that he had just happen to hear.

>3886453
>can't argue against it
>"ummm I got to attack him back for shaming my ideology!"
>sees another user post something about goalposts
>"heh, we got him now boys, no way he can attack l'gommunismus now"
autism

>No sweetie, read the rest of the post and think this through.
Literally no argument.

>The fuck? Is this bait? Are you just here to shitpost? There's no way the communists aren't solely responsible. You can't have a "communist revolution" and then just pretend the communists dindu nuffin because it placates your passivist sensibilities. Proof that gommies have no intellectual integrity.
War death tolls are usually not accounted along with civilian killings. Not for tankies nor for nazis. It's okay though, count war death for both or for neither, it's arbitrary.

>Care to explain how it's rumors
archive.org/stream/cu31924030480051/cu31924030480051_djvu.txt

>He asked for material on Simons and all you did was give an article about an entirely different period than the subcommittee hearing in which Simons name is not mentioned.

I'm responding to at least two people itt. I'm posting in three different threads and messaging on FB. Sorry if I don't spoon feed you sauce. Find your own pdf's and read your own books please. It's not my fault if you can't sauce yourself on every single thing, I can only do so much. I'm clearly interested in providing as much as I can, which is why I bothered to post something back anyways.

Like I said, "Literally which" would've been better. You didn't bring up any of Snyder's actual work, so I really didn't know what you were referencing.

>Again: do you suppose they could have continued fighting it?

Well let's see here, in Brusilov's autobiography he says that Germany wouldn't be totally mobilized until 1915. He said Russia wouldn't be ready until 1917. 1917 is the same year of the revolution, but according to "A Soldier's Notebook: 1914-1918" and Brusilov's own analysis, yes they could have. No pdf's, go to the library.I got a copy from my college's a while ago.

>then why are adjectives used

Well let's see, we know that Putin and the Israeltimes both claimed that 80-85% of the early USSR was jewish. After Yezhovschina, it fell to 5%. Put two and two together. Look at the Doctor's Plot and the Trial of the 21. In both cases, the perpetrators were almost wholly jewish outside of a few exceptions.

>autism

That's what I'm saying

>Literally no argument.
The point was that Gulag's weren't the only sources of deaths in the interbellum periods. There, I wiped your ass for you with an obvious point which you missed not only once, but twice.

Out of words.