What is the difference between Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism?

What is the difference between Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism?

real social democracy has been tried

There are no universal properties of either one.

Originally, in the beginning of the 20th century, almost every Social Democrat was political follower of Marxist ideas, and vice versa, with communist splitting up on the issue of Revolution vs Legal political struggle

In a social democracy, the means of production remain in private hands.

bump

why

DS is fascism, SD is socialism by definition

Isn't Soviet style communism socialism by definition? And didn't they actually achieve their variation?

One is not gay.

Up until Gorbachev yes.
>achieve
no meaningful difference exists between any of the communist creeds

Isn't social democracy just liberalism with lots of welfare like the nordic countries?
Democratic socialism is basically just rebranded communism

>Social democracy
Large welfare state

>Democratic socialism
Democratic control of capital

>Large welfare state

They're both welfare states.

This looks about right.

Communists are opposed to welfare.

need more clarification

If everything is owned by the government, which is also your company, and also your union, welfare and wages are an easy mix up. Suppose I just don't like the idea of dependency or exile.

>no meaningful difference exists between any of the communist creeds
So what you’re saying is that you didn’t read any of them.

In practice they're mostly interchangeable and the difference is semantic. The "means of production" shit is mostly irrelevant today

Shit is shit even if you polish it and stick someones name on it

Communism is the way they achieve socialism. Violence instead of peaceful democratic and legal means but the result is still to create a socialist utopia

One operates within the framework of capitalism.

Social democracy is about achieving socialism through gradual peaceful reforms while democratic socialism is about governing socialist state democratically while still accepting violent revolution as method.

Though neither of these matter as social democrats have given up being reform socialists and become mere reformists instead and democratic socialist never were relevant.

Social democrats want a capitalist welfare state.
Democratic socialists want worker management of businesses.

Democratic socialism believes in getting into power by democratic means, by voting and respecting the parliament, unlike communism which holds revolution as the only valid means of getting into power. In terms of policies, they don't differ much. Both draw their policies from Marxism.

Social democracy is something newer. It is for capitalism but allows state intervention to maintain social justice, income, etc.