"Bro I could totally wreck martial artists"

please don't listen to that kid, he has no idea what he's taking about and likely does wing chun

Yea sure its not thought much any more but it still exists and is still very legit. That is true that a lot of BJJ guys beat judo but this is like me saying that orthodox boxers beat Conventional Boxer and i assume that you know that BJJ came from judo.
>call me a kid
>his martial art is shit
>he has no idea what hes talking about
Wew thats some nice rhetoric you got their

>100% untrained will always lose
>with people at different weights and belts, 10 lbs of muscle sort of 'make up' for a belt
>on average, and for small differences, it even works, but don't get into 'frail old master vs semi-trained roidbeast' debates

>like me saying that orthodox boxers beat Conventional Boxer

ahaha holy shit ok ok you win i fell for the troll

lol ok kid sure you're martial arts work alright in a formal fight in you're little "dojo" as you follow your perfect little script but it's not going to work that way in the real world fucktard the bodybuilder would get off the first hit and it would be all over the prissy martial artists dont have the strength or stamina to last or even finish the fight

>not being a bodybuilder AND doing bjj
There was a blue belt that would regularly tap purple and brown belts because he was so fucking massive and strong. I think he was around 6'7 and 300lbs of just solid fucking muscle. His neck was so thick most of the guys literally couldn't wrap their arms around it to choke him. He wasn't a cardio king for sure, but it didn't matter because it took him minimal effort to tap out even the most experienced guys. Because of him, most of the guys started bulking hard, so we had a gym with 80% of the people that train there being >185lbs.

>Have fun grappling with randoms on the street while two of his buddies kick you to death

ftfy. Grapplers are fucking retarded. Enjoy your fucking one hour of "sparring" a week thinking you're anything like the pros you would blow and swallow if asked.

Did you even see the video? Strength has obviously nothing to do with it if he can be taken down by a chick. And to say that MAs don't train for stamina is beyond retarded.

>Grappling is only about being on the ground
>take downs and slams don't matter
You are the cancer of grappling and kys
Also i used that as a point to explain that their is never 1 way of doing a martial art and that its a far more complex adapting then you think it is.

You know whats the best defence for any "real life" fight. A fucking gun so we should never even work out or practice any martial art because we can just shoot each other.

Germanicum Est Non Legitur

lol
if he was experienced he'd destroy every single one of them dude and he'd only need half the skill

Or perhaps never getting into a goddamn fight in the first place or simply learning some actual striking worth a shit. You wanna play a good ground game? Fine, next thing you know his buddies are stabbing you to death.

Don't pull guns on random unarmed people, moron.

Yeah but he wasn't, just like most bodybuilders aren't. If he were better he'd be better, no shit sherlock.

"real" fights are a meme word used to peacock about how "deadly" a martial art is and the fact is that their is no "real" fight because a real fight in Brazil or Africa is far more different from a "real" fight in us. I tried to make this point to you but you chose to shit on grappling and bring up a scenario where their is no context behind it to prove your point that grappling is shit when you fight more then 1 person. Guess what everything is shit when you fight more then 1 person and thats why i brought up the gun point.

Yeah if you want a lawsuit on your hands. Real men know how to defend themselves using only their body and don't have to rely on a coward's weapon.

box, have seen heaps of body builders come in and they're not suited to it, slow and get gassed easy and seem like kinda all stiff? idk

that said you could like do some lifts and it'd be good boxing but

AESTHETICS

IS NOT

ATHLETICS

People say Arnold could beat Jackie Chan all the time on here and it's just not true

>hurr don't pull a gun
>hurr lawsuit
>hurr real men know how to rough and tumble

In the real world, you don't fucking fight people. If someone is threatening your life, either:
A: It's not enough of a threat to bother with, so you walk away
B: It's a significant enough threat to bother with, walking away isn't an option, so you have to stand your ground

If option B comes to mind, you stand your ground and shoot to kill. Either there's a threat to your life or there isn't. The middle ground is such a fine line it's nearly impossible to see.

Now we get on to addressing autism.

>simply learn some actual striking worth a shit. You wanna play a good ground game? Fine, next thing you know his buddies are stabbing you to death.

>Don't pull guns on random unarmed people, moron

>Stabbing
>Unarmed

If they pull a knife for any reason, you pull your gun, and you shoot. Self defense isn't a fucking game, cops and lawyers and judges don't think it's a fucking strategic D&D game where you need to calculate some bullshit. He pulls a knife? He just threatened to kill you, blow him away. No middle ground. Even if he drops it, you don't put that gun away until he and his friends are in cuffs. You don't know if he's picking the knife up, or if a friend is circling around you. You get into a fistfight with knives, you already lost.

Gun point best point. I CC every day, no matter how much I lift and exercise. Only place I don't have a gun is the gym.

>lawsuit
>Real men know how to defend themselves using only their body
>coward's weapon meme

Okay buddy. Let's put it this way. Either:
A: A guy threatens to attack you, you diffuse and walk away.
B: A guy actually attacks you, you engage. With your gun. It doesn't matter if he's armed, if you can say you believed there was a risk of him causing death or grievous bodily harm, you have the risk to shoot. Unless you live in some eurocuck nation.

you have the right to shoot*

Lawfag here. If you shoot an unarmed person you have a very small chance of getting off on self-defence. A knife maybe. If he drops the knife and puts his hands on the air or in any other way stops being a threat, you're not allowed to shoot him.

>200 word response on Veeky Forums
>autism

pick both

Most bodybuilders dont know how to fight, dont try fighting. This guy isnt big at all either lmao. These videos are for dyel manlets to feel good about training, because in real life, theres a guy whos 6'5 300lbs jacked up on roids, benches 500lbs and squats 700 for reps + is decently lean and can fight

man being strng is certaintly advantageous in combat or whatever but it doesn't just magically give you the ability to 'fight', what planet are you posting from

YOU WOULD LOSE AGAINST A MASSIVE GUY WHOS TALLER AND 5X STRONGER THAN YOU EVEN IF HE HALF HALF THE TRAINING YOU HAD YOU DELUSIONAL TURD

>Lawfag
In what state are we talking about? Because Corrections fag here, if someone starts swinging at you, you have the right to shoot in stand your ground states. There's no judge, jury, or DA that's going to look at some 130lb guy or 80lb grandpa getting targeted by some 300lb roided up nigger and say "oh shit the nigger didn't have any weapons, we better throw them in jail for shooting them!"

You pull your gun with the intent to kill, they intend to hurt you? Fucking shoot them. That simple. If they for some reason, not so magically stop being a threat AFTER you pull your gun, and you haven't fired off a shot yet, keep it pointed at them, order them down, and call the police. They can get up, they don't have to listen, but if they come at you again you can always pull the trigger. If they decide to just get up and walk away, let them, you diffused the situation, the police have a description and location, and you just saved your own skin.

I also interned for a DA and have a bachelor's in Criminal Justice. Trust me when I say that the "unarmed" rule doesn't apply to most states, and if it does, it is ALWAYS taken on a case by case basis, because life and the law are circumstantial.

You're moving the goalpost. The discussion of this thread is whether strength can generally substitute for training. There aren't many 6'5 300lbs roidheads walking around who want to kick your ass. Most likely it's a skinny manlet from the middle east, in which case it's obviously better to be trained in MA than just being strong lol.

prime arnold could've, yeah

when you're 15cm shorter and weight half of what the other guy weights + you're 5 times weaker, you really don't have a chance. Mass and size are a huge factor in fighting

I know bro, I'm from Europe so we have stricter self-defence conditions. Not to mention guns are generally illegal to carry here. Shooting an unarmed person is considered disproportionate.

LOL so youre admitting that huge trained guys obviously dominate tiny trained guys.
And why do you dumb fucks even put bodybuilders against fighters in the game of fighting. Do you know how ridiculous this sounds?
I really think you guys are just jealous dyels

if someone is trained sure, that's why weight divisions exist

and yes, strength and size do play a factor in fighting

but if you can't use your implied strength and size it's not relevant, like if you can't punch or kick you can't punch or kick, there's more to it than you might think man

Yeah obviously someone who weighs 3x your weight is going to kick your ass, but that doesn't apply in everyday life. So your argument consists of huge exaggerations and has no practical application.

you speaking more nonsense, pathetic dyel. Im speaking of how trained guys who are big and strong will destroy you. And dont make up bullshit excuses about weight classes just to "even up the odds" LMFAO.. first you try to put up people who arent fighters, against fighters, now you want to add weight class divisions to help the smaller dudes lol.

in everyday life, youll hardly ever see bodybuilders or anyone who even knows how to fight you dipshit. People have priorities. I have a friend whos 6'6 300 lean and benches 500 for reps and he does mma training. And when i see these stupid posts i just think to myself "good luck fighting him lol"

Yeah which is exactly my point. If you're discussing whether in a fight it's better to be strong or skilled you don't have to take into accoutn massive bodybuilders because you hardly see them. Duh.

If you just want to brag about how strong your friend is that's fine, just don't use it as an argument here.

im not sure what point you're arguing anymore but we get it, you lift weights, good on you man

heavyweights in combat sports are like, not bodybuilding like a bodybuilder though, they're likely ''''naturally' around that weight (or height, whatevs), people do go up in weight classes but it's not really that common

im not sure what you're saying but yes, strength and size does play a part in fighting, but equally does speed and skill, so man relax

im bragging about how hes strong AND can fight

mate mma training is in general making you pretty average at a bunch of different stuff

there are people who are taking insane amount of drugs to make them faster stronger, bigger, increase endurace and they know how to fight. Trained bodybuilders will beat trained dyels the majority of the time and this is an undeniable F A C T. Thats what I want to see you admit

Maybe you should suck his dick then.

I'd give it to jackie. He's pretty tall for a chink and had ok mass. Not a massive difference in reach and probably strong enough to hurt him pretty bad when he connects.

>someone call 911

haha loser

Prove he dropped it.

Because it's laying on the ground?

Because when you shoot someone they obviously won't let go of a knife. Right?

>if someone starts swinging at you, you have the right to shoot in stand your ground states
Not due to simple size difference. A grandma and a feral nig? sure. Two healthy young men? Unless it's tinytrip against the mountain there's no way in hell that defense would hold.

i should make a thread as retarded as this and compare weak fighters to 198lb powerlifters
"HURR DURR fighters who dont lift heavy weight cant lift heavy weight!! haha how pathetic!!"

I don't get what your point is? If you hold someone at gunpoint and tell them to drop the knife, why wouldn't they?

bodybuilder, not likely, but like your average lifter or sorng guy, maybe, sure, that's what weight categories are for

but b o d y b u i l d e r s nah

If they charge at you, you can definitely shoot them, provided you're unable to flee.

youtube.com/watch?v=YAXaCmky4Hw

this is pretty funny

Generally speaking :
Wrestling applies exclusively to all styles of fighting involving and focusing on throws, sumbissions, etc such as judo, olympic wrestling (yes, that one with the skintight outfits) and plenty of local flavors.
Grappling applies to wrestling styles AND techniques without specific rules, such as : throws, takedown and ground techniques used in Luta Libre, MMA, No Gi BJJ, Goshin Jitsu in Judo and plenty of styles that do not focus primarily on wrestling (think throws and locks in Krav maga for example).

Example : Pic related (wrist and elbow lock) is a GRAPPLING technique, as it does not relies on a specific set of rules nor or the opponent's Dogi (vest), though the opponnents are clearly performing a Judo/Ju-jitsu (wrestling style) demonstration such as their outfits suggest.

>BJJ ain't grappling
>Praticing one Grappling style does not qualify anyone to talk about it
>Practices one striking style
>Feels competent to talk about BOTH striking and grappling
I'm sorry, who are you again ?
Because you don't talk much sense.

No. It requires both intent and ability on their part to inflict lethal harm. The ability part means you have to be severely fucking outmatched for self-defense laws to protect your pulling a gun, if the other party is unarmed.

If he's armed? Shoot away.
If you're an 80 year old granny with osteoporosis? Shoot that fucker.
If you're both non-elderly men? If he's more than twice your size, or you know he's a pro at martial arts. If not then no way in hell.

A gun is a smart man's weapon.

George Zimmerman/Treyvon Martin
Michael Brown

Someone starts fighting you, you shoot them. That's it. If you think they could kill or hurt you significantly, you shoot them. This isn't a fucking video game. You don't get a scouter to read their power levels. No judge is going to say "Oh shit, this guy is 200lbs, but the attacker was only 175, gee I don't know do you think you could have beat him in a fist fight?"

Unless the attacker is a kid, and I don't mean some Treyvon 17 year old, or 16 year old, I mean like an 11 year old, then no court is going to say shooting them was unjustified if they attacked you. Period.

This. In your car and they start smashing it up? Drive away, call the police. In a parking garage 100 yards from your car and someone starts some shit, yelling, threatening, etc? Walk away with your eyes on them. They start to engage, you fucking shoot them like the scum they are. If you start to attack someone on the street and they didn't start to attack you, a family member, or some innocent first, you basically deserve to get shot.

People who start fights are retards.

This entirely depends on the jurisdiction. It's kind of pointless to argue different jurisdictions.

Again, Treyvon Martin and Michael Brown would disagree.

Next example : This pics shows a wrestling technique (Gi Jime, or Collar choke) used in a self defense context (obviously a fitness-related quarell on a imageboard) wich tends to involve primarily grappling techniques in order not to rely on the assaillant outift/power level.

This.

Prove he doesn't have another weapon.

If he did, that would be only enforcing a self-defence plea, dumbass.

Martin had been suspended from school.

Stay in school kids!

Oh.. Wait.. That's not exactly safe either..

Got a buddy like this. He actually says shit like 'xxx is the best martial art, you can fuck up anyone. Apart from maybe a bodybuilder'

Legit thinks he's The Hulk and that practicing to lift heavy things repetitively is equal to or greater than practicing to kill or disable one or more opponents.

Bear in mind this man has no actual stamina, he both skips leg day and can't physically run due to his grotesque upper body and stick thin ankles. He'd gas out in about 30 seconds.

youtube.com/watch?v=3dGI4NSpO6o
this is pretty much how i imagine 95% of the people who say "i can fight bro id easily smaash a bodybuilder" on the internet

I think we're on the same side.

>George Zimmerman/Treyvon Martin
The defense had him being grounded, straddled, and pounded into the concrete. That's not someone coming at you with their fists, that's someone trying to fucking kill you when you're already on the ground.
>Michael Brown
Was shot by the fucking police, not a civilian.

>these threads

i just don't get why people think their life is spiderman and they're going to be assaulted by several semi retarded goons in a dark alley, and only through their skill in martial arts survive the encounter

i don't know why people think that getting hit with fists/feet = you can't be seriously injured

if some dude is trying to punch me he could hit me once, knock me out, and then stomp/beat me to death

You're a huge faggot. Here's your (you)

And I don't know why people think that someone posturing and coming at you is somehow the same as trying to crack open your cranium like a fucking coconut against the concrete.

A man in my town killed a man with one punch. Fucked his brain up and he died a vegetable in hospital days later. Just a normal guy, did time in jail for it, drives busses now.

Videogames and movies have fooled us into forgetting the damage a person can inflict. We're not animals anymore, humans are alarmingly fragile.

People in here talking shit about fights have probably never been in a real one beyond ass slapping in the showers.

In every situation I've been in like that I just leave(I wouldn't leave if I was on my own property/in a public well populated area etc).

If after leaving someone is following me with the intent to do harm to be, even after I've shown I want nothing to do with it, then yes they will get shot if they don't fuck off.

I'm weak as fuck, I'm not going to wait until I'm getting beat to death to try to defend myself.

Because I can't read minds. Always assume the worst.

And you are probably going to go to jail for it.
It is extremely fucking rare for self-defense to hold against an unarmed assailant (exempting castle doctrine). It practically only ever does if the victim is female, elderly, or the outcome is already determined with one party rendered powerless to otherwise resist (zimm).

>(a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against another person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony.

yeah i'll definitely be going to jail xD

from my experience a lot of "bodybuilders" are motoric morons that couldn't coordinate their piss hitting the toilet because they were the fat/scrawny kid and started to overcompensate at some point. Most athletes and people with decent history in sports are considerably faster, more agile, with better coordination and aren't afraid of contact. If you're up against a linebacker and a bodybuilder of the same mass the linebacker will likely erase you while the bodybuilder won't know which way his limbs are supposed to go. In any case it's a retarded point as in 95% of real world fights the only thing that matters is who is crazier.

>if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury
>reasonably believes that that force is necessary
Are you fucking illiterate? That's what I've said.
If deadly force is necessary, that means you otherwise couldn't have prevented "serious bodily injury". Meaning, if you look like you could've had a chance in a fight, you're fucked. So pulling a gun on someone who's coming at you won't get you off with self defense unless you're severely fucking outmatched. As I've said like, 4 times now?

Learn your fucking law, idiot, or move to a better state.

>
>catch wrestling largely doesn't exist anymore and bjj beats judo once it gets to the ground
>there are judo black belts at my bjj school that are blue belts in bjj and aren't particularly good at bjj
Ftfy
There are high level bjj players in my judo dojo that get ragdolled by the low level judoka because the bjjers are guard pulling cunts that can't even footwork.
They are different games with different rules that happen to use the same techniques.

getting in a physical altercation is a risk of serious bodily injury

A "risk" of serious bodily injury is not the same fucking thing as actual serious bodily injury. The law talks about serious bodily injury, not about any fucking risk, actual injury. Is that clear enough, you retarded little shit?

Getting into a "physical altercation" and beating the crap out of someone is proof that deadly force wasn't necessary. If you look like you could've won a fight, the jury is going to fuck you right up the ass. Since you're a man, and lift, you're never going to get off on self defense unless you've already lost a fight and been rendered unable to defend yourself, the assailant is armed, or he's Nikolaj fucking Valujev.

>once it gets to the ground
>implying the judoka won't smash you into the concrete hard enough to break your shit
no shit it's better if laying on the ground on your back is a legit starting point, it's like saying you got kickboxers in your boxing gym and they're worse at boxing than dedicated guys