Obviously Operation Sealion wouldn't have works because of the UK navy, but why couldn't a massive paratroop invasion work?
Why couldn't Germany air dropped MASSIVE amount of troops into the UK and had them secure locations like airports and open fields to be able to resupply that way? Allied forces in Bastogne were resupplied by air drops so why couldn't Germany do it on a massive scale?
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No it wouldn't have because Germany would need full air superiority which they did often not have over Britain.
Logistics wins wars.
A division is going to require thousands of tons of war materiel on a fairly regular basis to keep functioning, and you aren't going to get that much shit to your guys with the British actively attacking all planes in their airspace.
Because they lost the Battle of Britain: no air superiority.
And how would you propose they be able to arm, feed, and otherwise supply their army after the first days of combat? How about armor, artillery, or anti-armor support? What would your proposed plan be if they somehow did manage to achieve in taking their strategic objectives, and cause encirclement or breakthrough?
>air superiority
Fair enough, but was that a focus for Germany? Especially after the Russian front opened?
Also, if you were planning on an air invasion, wouldn't you handle the situation differently?
>it's another what if ww2 thread
just fuck off
also, they tried that at Crete and it was fucking slaughter for them
>supply first days of combat
The first days of combat would be over the airports/fields for the supply planes. First day really.
source? Wouldn't mind reading about this
Obtaining air superiority was certainly a focus, I believe the British spitfire plane often outclassed German planes and I think Britain simply had more planes, as well as things like the Polish Air Force in exile and dominion air forces to further bolster the number of pilots and planes.
Germany lost the battle of Britain, which was about establishing air superiority.
Besides, the sixth army got ganked in Stalingrad when they tried supplying it entirely by airlift.
Weren't the British short on spitfires and mainlyiy had hurricanes, which were outclassed by German Messerschmitts?
Why does it feel like every ww2 question on Veeky Forums is written by someone who gets their info from hoi4?
> did they try hard enough
Yes, they threw thousands of planes and men at Britain, and still failed.
Germany had more planes (see pic).
> Polish Air Force in exile
Just the pilots, who did a great job, by the way.
> British spitfire plane often outclassed German planes
A myth. The Spitfire had its problems, just like the German planes.
Forgot pic...
Considering the outcome of the Battle of Britain a mass paratrooper drop would be just as hopeless as an amphibious landing. There's no handling the situation other than giving up the idea.
>The first days of combat would be over the airports/fields for the supply planes. First day really.
That literally answers nothing I asked. And something tells me you have no clue how armies work, or even what a normal combat load entails.
Because finding books is hard or smth
Because deliberately putting troops in a place where you don't have the ability to re-supply them is basically just giving the enemy free POW's. Also, why the fuck can't I post without doing the capchta a billion times? It didn't used to be like this?
>Not using legacy captcha
Fucking end yourself
They took Crete off the bongs, brainlet.
They withdrew from the aerial offensive against the bongs because the bongs were fully cucked and they had business to the East.
Number of reasons
1. No air superiority ment that transports and supplies would be seriously limited due to casualties, so not nearly enough resources and men would land to support such a large drop let alone take over all of bongland
2. Airborne infantry is at a significant disadvantage due to lack of armour, look at arhnem for an example, without heavy weapons the German paras would be overrun or encircled and starved out
3. If the plan failed (which it would) the Germans would have no way to evacuate it's troops leading to effectively an axis Dunkirk but with no navy to evacuate
4. The axis (along with any other nation on earth) did not have enough airborne troops to carry out an operation of that magnitude
Germany simply couldn't invade bongland regardless of the timeline
>And never did another airborne operation ever again due to casualties.
Crete gave the allies a hardon for airborne assaults that would last all the way to market garden but turned the axis off it permanently.
t. Goering
Paratroops at the time only consisted of infantry. Securing and holding key military locations with mere small arms would have proved very hard. And airfields tended to have anti-air elements and whatnot.
They brought the British airforce to its brink, but were provoked by a few succesful British raids to Ruhr that they went full autismo and started to blitz London way before the eastern war begun. This was in September 1940 for the record, a time when the war was only being fought in Africa.
Perhaps, but the Crete operation was successful. Had the krauts decided to invade Bongistan, they'd undoubtedly have used a paratroop assault on harbor/airfields. Heavy casualties were always expected by anybody advocating such operations, but if the objective to be gained outweighed that...
This might be a myth, although a popular one - and in reality, the RAF was never pushed to a brink. However, I'm no expert on the subject, I just read experts and try to figure out which seem most credible.
They've discussed the matter at extensive length over at the Axis History Forum:
forum.axishistory.com
Preparations for the war in the East obviously initiated at least a year before the June 1941 attack, and it really is obvious that the krauts were pulling out of the aerial offensive within that timeline. Bombing at night is the surest indication of this decision, as daylight attacks are the only way to hit specific targets in this era, as required for true offensive operations. The krauts turned their attention to the East, as the bongs were fully cucked at this point. What the bongs call "the blitz" (so named for propaganda purposes similar to Dunkirk being a "victory"), was really a placeholder and spoiling attack, to make sure the bongs stayed cucked. They did.
>a placeholder and spoiling attack, to make sure the bongs stayed cucked.
The Battle of Britain did almost nothing to limit British ability to prosecute the war and it cost the Germans more than it cost the British. Some cucking.
Well, if you have all of your reserves committed to a battle, you're on the brink, particularly if your government is financially bankrupt.
The bongs had no ability to prosecute a war either before or after the krauts withdrew from that theater. They were bankrupt. They were cucked.
>you're chucked if you stop your enemies attacks and go on to start attacking them
This is your brain on /pol/
>all your reserves
[Citation needed]
> Battle of Britain
> Battle of the Atlantic
> North Africa
> Burma
The British did plenty of fighting, son.
If you think the Brits were cucked before the BoB, then it seems a bit strange, and not really like a victory, to lose 4000 aircrew and 2000 planes just to make sure they stay cucked. On the other hand, if you think the BoB was necessary to cuck the Brits, then obviously they weren't cucked before, and you have to explain how exactly they were cucked after, given that they caused the Germans more military harm than the Germans caused them, and the German killing of Brit civilians just angered the survivors.
I'm not even sure he's /pol/. He might just be a fanatical bong-hater. I saw him here on a thread a few days ago doing the same thing, obsessively focusing on using the word "bong" as often as possible and on trying to downplay everything British.
Yeah he's just baiting, probably trying to become some icon like the TURKposter or that Rei guy, who knows
Hmm
If the brittish at dunkrirk were raped and the luftwaffe focused 100% air supremacy they probably could have blitzed the country with a sealion
The Luftwaffe did focus 100% on air supremacy, and they failed to get it.
Indeed but remember that Crete was landing on a small island with air superiority over a short distance along with some communication failures by the allies compared to bongland which is a massive island over a heavily defended channel with defence air superiority, along with the fact that after Crete the allies created air defence units making taking airfeilds much more difficult and the bongs would have armour unlike at Crete. The casualties the axis would face in such an undertaking would be biblical and heavily one sided. They wouldn't be able to take Britain.
Speaking of the Luftwaffe, is this the most Nazi-looking guy of all time? He looks like a Nazi caricature from an Indiana Jones movie.
his collar emblems look like wreaths
Well, 100% is an exaggeration. They also tried to lay naval mines and, later on in the campaign, to hit British cities. However, gaining air supremacy was the top strategic aim of the offensive, with knocking Britain out of the war being the top grand-strategic aim.
If they didn't invade the ussr they could sealion in 42. Torp bombers would fick the RN
>they didn't invade
When will this meme end? He invaded because Stalin was planning on invading. It was preemptive
And you sound 100% convinced of that... why, exactly?
>Stalin was planning on invading
that's why Red Army was so great in 1941?
Because a normal infantry division on the offensive consumes 100 tons of supply a day, at least for early to mid-war Germany. The British have some 26 divisions in the UK by September 1940. ibiblio.org
Paratroopers carry lighter equipment and generally cannot take an equivalent infantry division in a stand up fight. If you want this offensive, you'll probably want a 3-3.5:1 ratio.
Even ignoring the fact that Germany, nor anyone ever, did not have 78 paratrooper divisions, nor the means to transport them, even if you did get them there, you wouldn't be able to supply them solely by air. People make fun of how obviously stupid Goering's plan to supply the 6th army at Stalingrad by air was; you're talking about doing the same with a force almost 4 times the size and trying to go on the offensive, not just hold out until relief can arrive.
The plan is nonsensical even if the RAF does absolutely nothing to stop you, which it of course will.
You realize the "retreat and counter attack" is something Russians do right? They pull back into the motherland and poison the wells and fuck up the fields and just strip all resources so the invaders can't use them, wait until they're low on supply and then run them out
And when the British display that they are not total idiots, and keep their fleet out of fighter escort range for your bombers and station a couple of squadrons of fighters on permanent CAP to shred anyone you send at them?
So you're trying to argue that Stalin was going to invade German-controlled Europe... by retreating into Russia?
war isn't static. You have to react to the battlefield. Stalin probably figured that Germany wouldn't be prepared for an assault, but when they attacked he shifted strategy.
Not him but you should be able to Google it pretty easy. If I remember right it was stationed with a lot of Maori folks at the time, and the Germans - being new to paratrooping - thought it'd be great to land straight on the bases they intended to take rather than land nearby, regroup and take it out.
This led to a slaughter as people just drifted downwards over lots of machine gun fire. I think they managed to capture only 1 of 3 base targets through a bit of luck in the end, not sure.
Why didn't they just fill in the channel? buncha idiots
Fuck that, why didn't they just dig a tunnel under it?
Because amusingly they lost most of their transport planes in the pointless paradrops over the Low Countries.
To the tune of, by 1941, only being capable of dropping 4,000 troops a day assuming no further losses. Which means it would take almost 6 runs to drop a single division.
Not even close to true. They capped Greece using those and gliders.
>Move the fleet away like the Germans want
>Disregard that the overwhelming number of German losses were due to Soviets and not Brits
>Disregard the potential for Germany bumping air production in 40-42
>>Move the fleet away like the Germans want
That is not what the Germans wanted. The Germans wanted to destroy the RN if at all possible before invading. Even if you make landfall, Britain won't collapse immediately, especially with the pathetic sealift capabilities of the Third Reich. It will take months to build up the beachhead until you have a force capable of matching the British, let alone embarking on a major offensive. (Recall that the time between D-Day and Cobra was 49 days, with virtually unlimited transport to work with, as well as total command of the sea and skies, and with the German rail structure in shambles. None of these would apply to Sealion) At any point in that timeframe, it would be simple for the RN to sail into the channel at night and disrupt communications, especially shelling whatever improvised harbors the Heer develops.
>Disregard that the overwhelming number of German losses were due to Soviets and not Brits
What the hell does this have to do with the claim that torpedo bombers would fuck the royal navy?
>Disregard the potential for Germany bumping air production in 40-42
They DID bump up air production in 1940-42. So did the Brits, who after all, have a considerably larger economy and manpower pool. The longer you wait, the worse it gets, not better.
Quads of Truth
Yeah those 150 gliders and 350 Junkers are totally enough to take over England user. Oh wait, even with the Gliders they can barely bump the initial airborne force to less than half a single division, and the gliders are single use, so they don’t even make a second run. Jesus Christ whehraboos are fucking idiots.
>The Germans wanted to destroy the RN if at all possible before invading
No, they just needed to clear the channel for French civil transports to land troops and supplies. The RN isn't sub based or prepared to defend the channel against torpedo bombers. It would not be simple for the RN considering they're already weak to torps on subs and planes. Outdated Swordfish bombers took out the Italian fleet at Taranto(8 ships). The Japanese took out both battleships Prince of Wales and Repulse using the same tech. The RN is useless without air superiority.
>What the hell does this have to do with the claim that torpedo bombers would fuck the royal navy?
If the Germans didn't fight the USSR, the German air force would far exceed the British RAF. Most of German air force losses were not due to the British despite the British trying to build themselves up as an air contender or more significant in this regard.
>They DID bump up air production in 1940-42. So did the Brits, who after all, have a considerably larger economy and manpower pool. The longer you wait, the worse it gets, not better.
I was referring to Speere's armaments program of 42-44 being done two years earlier. The Germans were trying to protect their civil economy, therefore restrained war production.
en.wikipedia.org
There's no reason that the Germans wouldn't be able to defeat the Brits on home territory. Keep in mind half their number had to be sent to fight the Japanese or risk total annihilation in the far east and Raj.
First, you don't know what a division is. What was referred to above is a corps of multiple divisions. Secondly they could use torpedo bombers to clear the RN main fleet in conjunction with U boats. The result would be steady supply drops via civil transports taken from France and the lowlands. A reverse Dunkirk scenario.
>The krauts turned their attention to the East, as the bongs were fully cucked at this point. What the bongs call "the blitz" was really a placeholder and spoiling attack, to make sure the bongs stayed cucked.
>Some cucking.
>They were bankrupt. They were cucked.
>If you think the Brits were cucked ... the BoB was necessary to cuck the Brits ... they weren't cucked before ... how exactly they were cucked after
HOLY SHIT JUST THE FUCKING FUCK UP BOTH OF YOU
FUCK
LEARN SOME NEW FUCKING VOCABULARY YOU GOD DAMN SPIT DRIBBLING BANDWAGONING DEAD HORSE BEATING MEME SPOUTING CUNTS
> Obviously Operation Sealion wouldn't have works because of the UK navy, but why couldn't a massive paratroop invasion work?
1. Sealion was a ruse from the beginning. Hitler's real target was Russia and it had been from the beginning. (Read Mein Kampf).
2. Putting the navy in the channel meant having it bombed by a numerically superior luftwave
3. Germany didn't have that much paratroops. They are very expensive and tend to get slaughtered if you leave them isolated for long. They serve as vanguard or special forces but need to be backed up by larger force.
You're cucked when your enemy cucks you and withdraws from the theater, and you're left bankrupt and begging others to help you.
>LEARN SOME NEW FUCKING VOCABULARY YOU GOD DAMN SPIT DRIBBLING BANDWAGONING DEAD HORSE BEATING MEME SPOUTING CUNTS
I know. I'm tired of watching Britain get invaded by angry anti-white welfare brownie's too all because those people honestly believed fighting Hitler on behalf of the bankers was actually the right thing to do. It's too late now. They've made their bed.
Hey that's not a bad post.
>wehraboos are this delusional
Churchill was visiting Fighter COmmand one day, and he asked what were the reserves during the day's battle. Answer came, 'there are none'.
This must be his... the poor children here don't know pocketbook history.
krauts withdraw from aerial offensive
bongs sunk on their own doorstep until US involves
Rommel BTFO bongs until US involves'
Japs BTFO bongs in Burma
You were saying?
The bongs were cucked and bankrupt, and left to beg others for help, which is when the Nazis left for other pursuits. Sorry, but them's the facts.
If the krauts had air superiority, they'd take Bongistan. They settled on cucking them and went East, which would have worked out fine for them if the US hadn't intervened.
>No, they just needed to clear the channel for French civil transports to land troops and supplies. The RN isn't sub based or prepared to defend the channel against torpedo bombers. It would not be simple for the RN considering they're already weak to torps on subs and planes. Outdated Swordfish bombers took out the Italian fleet at Taranto(8 ships). The Japanese took out both battleships Prince of Wales and Repulse using the same tech. The RN is useless without air superiority.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Look at the performance of the Luftwaffe during Dynamo; they managed to fail to sink anything as big as a cruiser with their air superiority, and that was with ships sitting still for long periods of time to load up evacuating troops in the daytime. It would be enormously different when 5 BB run through the channel at night, smashing as they go.
>If the Germans didn't fight the USSR, the German air force would far exceed the British RAF
[citation needed]
> Most of German air force losses were not due to the British despite the British trying to build themselves up as an air contender or more significant in this regard.
I never said they were, but the British built more planes than the Germans did, and had a larger economy to shift more resources to aviation production if they wished. There is 0 chance for the Germans to win a long air war.
>I was referring to Speere's armaments program of 42-44 being done two years earlier. The Germans were trying to protect their civil economy, therefore restrained war production.
You are incorrect. Speer's "Bump" in production was simply the investments of previous years in armament factories becoming active, something which all the major powers did. If you want it in detail, I suggest Tooze's work. As a quick guide, I would recommend pic related; Germany was spending far more of her economy on military outlays than the British were.
1/2
>There's no reason that the Germans wouldn't be able to defeat the Brits on home territory
>en.wikipedia.org
I like how it mentions that the British built more overall planes, and that doesn't go into the fact that if you measure by weight of airframes, the disparity is even bigger. How are the Germans winning this again?
>Keep in mind half their number had to be sent to fight the Japanese or risk total annihilation in the far east and Raj.
Are you retarded? Look at what was actually sent to the Eastern Fleet. en.wikipedia.org
>When Japan entered the war, they sent 2 battleships, a battlecruiser, a light carrier, and 2 real carriers, as well as some smaller ships.
Most of which went to the bottom as soon as the Japanese got ahold of them, and if the Nazis had ever taken control of the air, the same thing would have happened there. The bong surface fleets would have been even more useless within range of landbased air than against Japanese carrier based air.
>What was referred to above is a corps of multiple divisions.
Referred to where? Crete and the Low Countries operations, referenced here featured divisional sized formations, because the Germans only HAD one division of paratroopers before 1943, the 7th Flieger-Division.
>Most of which went to the bottom as soon as the Japanese got ahold of them, and if the Nazis had ever taken control of the air, the same thing would have happened there
Then explain why it didn't happen during the Dunkirk evacuations. If, as you claim, air power is so instantaneously devastating, how come they were unable to sink so much as a single cruiser over the course of 9 days.
That's not even bothering with the fact that at best the Germans can achieve local air superiority, not total air supremacy anyway.
By the way, I assume you're giving up on your retarded claim that the British would send half their fleet to fight the Japanese, since you haven't even tried to support it?
>The Germans were trying to protect their civil economy, therefore restrained war production
Don't know why people still believe this, considering how much consumption declined in 1939-41 even compared to 1942-44, and the fact that converting civilian production to wartime production was one of the main goals of the government and in their own words it was "nearly completed" in early 1940.
Because Speer claimed it when he was writing his memoirs, and for some reason, a lot of people believe Speer, even when he's obviously lying.
>Crusader
Huh? A minor bit of hair pulling, following which Rommel resumed his steady kicking of bong incompetents, until the US had to resupply them and eventually invade themselves.
It was a battle that was enormously larger than any loss that Rommel had managed to deal to the British until Gazala. It bounced him back to right where he was at the start of his 1941 campaign.
How exactly does your bias manage to blind you this far? Do you have brain damage?
The Nazis were driving a land operation, and moving up tactical naval air power wasn't going to take place in a matter of weeks, particularly since the bongs ran like scalded dogs from Dunkirk.
I didn't comment on what the bongs sent East, because it was wasted anyways, as you should know. The Japanese destroyed them at every turn, as would have the Nazis if they had them in their sights. They headed East to the Sovs instead, once the bongs were cucked.
You're commenting on the ebb and flow of indeterminate actions in Africa, which gave no strategic output, and merely demonstrated that Rommel was able to expose bong incompetence with far less resources at his disposal, and the stalemate was only broken with US supply and invasion. Sorry.
They didn't "settle on cucking them". They got beat in the air by the Brits and realized there was nothing more they could do in that theater.
No, the bongs avoided being completely destroyed and having a swastika over their heads, but thoroughly cucked they were left watching the Nazis withdraw and go East to do what they always wanted, kill the Sovs. That's ALL that happened.
But before departing, they made certain the bongs were cucked, and proof of that was that they were financially bankrupt.
>The Nazis were driving a land operation, and moving up tactical naval air power wasn't going to take place in a matter of weeks, particularly since the bongs ran like scalded dogs from Dunkirk.
Wrong. The "tactical naval air power" was already there, in the form of the 1,882 bomber sorties; which again, managed to cause the damaging of ONE cruiser and sinking a bunch of smaller boats. The Japanese nailed the Repulse and Prince of Wales together with 88 sortied aircraft. The German naval aviation was pathetic, and would continue to be pathetic throughout the entire war.
>I didn't comment on what the bongs sent East,
Why do you tell lies when anyone can check back in the thread and prove you wrong easily? >There's no reason that the Germans wouldn't be able to defeat the Brits on home territory. Keep in mind half their number had to be sent to fight the Japanese or risk total annihilation in the far east and Raj.
>More delusional idiocy.
I'm done responding to your bait.
No, the Nazis didn't bring up anything but the same air forces they used to support their land operations, which are not the same as required for naval operations. The fact that the bongs ran up to the North and hid out for the war should be proof enough to you that they were fearful of what would happen, as they found out when they went against the Japanese, and believe me the bong navy was incompetent and vulnerable to destruction at all times, in any theater.
Hey faggot, since these posts aren't identified as to author, you might want to cease referencing posts other than the one you're responding to, since I don't know or care about what others post to you.
>Stalin was planning to invade Germany
>I'm tired of watching Britain get invaded by angry anti-white welfare brownie's too all because those people honestly believed fighting Hitler on behalf of the bankers was actually the right thing to do.
Hmm, I think I know who's behind these wehraboo posts. Pooland totally shot first, amirite?
Your reading of history is pretty fucking abysmal mate, but that's not surprising considering you use stupid /pol/ phrases in place of any critical thinking. Germany lost the battle of britain. They could not take Britain by air or by sea. Either would have led to a slaughter of axis forces.
Oh and the cherry on top, they couldn't even kill the soviets either! But i guess you try to put that in the back of your brain, you dipshit wehraboo.
Anyone still fucking falling for the "Barbarossa was pre-emptive" meme ought to read this
sci-hub.la
It's fairly short, only about 15 pages of text, so not like asking to read a whole book like some niggers do here on Veeky Forums
lol