Who lived in Poland and Germany before the Germans came?

>Corded Ware population, speaking in an extinct irrelevant language
it evolved into balto-slavic and indo-iranic, not went extinct.

He probably means a linguistic branch stemming from Corded Ware that went extinct.

Threadly reminder that Lusatian culture wasn't Slavic btw

we've already seen your sperg out about 'balto-germanic', no need to go at it again.

And we've also seen you ignore my explanation of the term Balto-Germanic and your failure to refute any of the information I provided regarding the ethnicity of Lusatians.

i'm not the guy you argued with. and no, you didn't present any evidence regarding their 'ethnicity' if you can even use that term for people of that era.

if you claim they were Germanic, then you're wrong. Lusatian Culture was a Bronze Age one, Pomeranian was an Iron Age phenomenon, just like Germanics. if you think they were baltic, then you may be partially correct, because Balto-Slavic would be more appropiate.

nonetheless, even if they weren't balto-slavic, they were something from Corded Ware, Germanics simply weren't there yet.

I don't think they were Germanic, although the Pomeranian groups obviously experienced strong Germanic/NBA influence. And I don't think they were Celtic either. You're right in saying that I didn't provide any evidence regarding their "ethnicity", since I didn't actually make any speculation as to what their "ethnicity" was. My only goal was to prove that they could not have been the original "Proto-Slavic" culture. If you asked for my opinion on their ethnicity I would say that it would be reasonable to assume that they spoke a now extinct language derived from Corded Ware with strong influence from western, Centum languages.

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When did this take place? I don't see any dates

Bronze Age.

500 bc

>bronze age
>slavs
Slavs were sitting in pripet marshes up to late medieval.

see

That's a map made by Polish eupedia autist.

It's accurate though.

If Lusatian culture was Proto-Slavic, then the Proto-Slavs would have been in constant direct contact with Celtic cultures for almost 1000 years. Celtic influence on Lusatian culture can also not be overstated. And yet, Celtic influence on Proto-Slavic is minimal, with very few Celtic loanwords in Proto-Slavic. By far the most loanwards in Proto-Slavic come from Germanic languages, despite the first Germanic peoples proven to have had extensive contact with Proto-Slavs being the Goths, who only made extensive contact from the 3rd century AD onwards.

There is also no real evidence for this supposed eastward migration of the Lusatians. The creator of that image has two arguments - Lusatian influence on Zarubintsy culture and depopulation in Poland. The first argument is ridiculous since cultural influence does not imply a mass migration. The second argument is equally ridiculous since depopulation does not imply a mass migration, and if there was such a migration, it could have also been to other regions. Depopulation can be explained by other factors, including the effects of climate change on agriculture and invasions from the Scythians. Any evidence for a mass migration actually points to a migration westward, since the western Lusatian regions were far richer and more developed, and naturally less liable to attacks from the Scythians. The last remaining Lusatian settlements after its decline were all concentrated in the west, not the east.

Then there's the issue of successor cultures. Lusatian culture was destroyed and succeeded by La Tene culture in the south and Pomeranian culture in the north. Pomeranian culture is the only culture to have directly evolved from Lusatian culture and it cannot be considered Slavic.

This map actually implies Lusatians were non-Slavic, but only Corded. Slavs would be a mix of Lusatians and Milogradians (Slavs proper), M458 and Z280, and we spot that every Slavic country has both these subclades, where either Z280 or M458 is predominant. Poland is for an example predominantly R1a-M458, but Slovenia R1a-Z280.

And we quite know that Lusatians were Satemic speakers, because we have R1a samples from there. They probably spoke some irrelevant language and adopted "Milogradian" (Proto-Slavic?) though.

This scenario is quite aproved by Jordanes's Getica, where he wrote that Veneti (Lusatians) fled from Gothiscandza, and would explain why Veneti changed it's meaning into "Slavic".

>This map actually implies Lusatians were non-Slavic
True, but when you read the creator of the map's in depth explanation of his theory it becomes clear that he's trying to imply a Polish homeland of the Slavs. He refers to Milograd culture as being mere "local Balto-Slavs" and says that the Slavs were formed by Lusatians mixing with Milogradians. He may not outright call Lusatians Proto-Slavs, but he's implying that they are responsible for the Slavic ethnogenesis.

kek

>He may not outright call Lusatians Proto-Slavs, but he's implying that they are responsible for the Slavic ethnogenesis.
Because it's more likely true. Well, we do not have any R1a-M458 sample from Lusatian culture, but he have a plenty of R1a samples from CWC Poland (Cordeds didn't burn bodies, but Lusatians did).
There probably is a reason why "Wendish" meant "Slavic" for Germanics.

>Because it's more likely true.
See

They were not influenced by Celts... as they escaped Poland before their migration. At least according to this theory.

Also Slavs actually do have some Celtic influence, for an example used similiar musical instruments.

>they escaped Poland before their migration
According to the theory, they moved eastward due to a combination of Scythian, Celtic and Germanic invasions. Assuming that there was an eastward migration (despite there being no evidence of course), this would have occurred primarily due to Scythian invasions, as these had by far the biggest impact. The destructive series of Scythian invasions began in the 6th Century BC, only 100 years before the decline of the Lusatian culture, and by this time the Lusatians had been in direct contact with the Celts for many centuries, with sustained influence from the Celts over this time. It's very hard to believe that the Celts had so little influence on Proto-Slavic, especially when compared to Germanic influence on Proto-Slavic, and Germanics only had sustained contact with Proto-Slavs from the 3rd century AD onwards.

>impact. The destructive series of Scythian invasions began in the 6th Century BC, only 100 years before the decline of the Lusatian culture, and by this time the Lusatians had been in direct contact with the Celts for many centuries
Celts were a quite minor in Bohemia and other Eastern European lands. Their impact was weak.
Also Venedi impact on Milogradian Slavs Proper wasn't great as well. They adopted Slavic tongue (which was very similiar to their own), and the only souvenirs of them are M458 line in many Slavs, and "Wendish" names.

Modern Czechs are more Celtic than Slavic genetically though.

Not really, but they have a lot of R1b due to Germanic influence (Marcomanni).

>A group of scientists suggested that the high frequency of a gene mutation causing cystic fibrosis in Central European (including Czech R.) and Celtic populations proves a proto-Celtic population origin, besides the Slavic, in the Czech population
Czechs being Germanic is a meme. They've been culturally germanized to a significant degree but genetically not so much.

Their "Celtic" influence is probably via Germanic one. Bavarians are also "Celtic" even if they are Germanic.

We're talking about admixture not about influence.

*Influence on genes
Happy now?

>Their impact was weak.
Nah, it was massive. Hallstatt culture bordered Lusatian culture and the two were strongly connected through trade with the amber route. The Western Lusatian Zone was particularly influenced by Halstatt culture, its most characteristic features including its own varieties of more general Hallstatt traits, such as fortified settlements, production of iron, and decorated pottery. Local manufacturing; jewelry and other decorative products made of iron, bronze, glass, amber and other materials as well as luxurious painted ceramics were patterned after the Hallstatt craft. Celtic influence was such that early Iron Age settlements in Lower Silesia might have actually been Hallstatt rather than Lusatian settlements.

You stupid?

Yep.