Who /antigrains/ here?

completely agree OP i don't eat that shit

Literally this. Easy to produce an absolute fuckton of it very quickly, and is one of the single most nutrious diet staples there is. Bless grain for gains and human civilization. Only lazy dumbasses who stuff their faces with pulverized white grain shit get fat. Never insult the ultimate harbringer of human civilization boys.

Whatever happened to the squats and oats meme

high sugar + high fat is the real issue.

...

>this shit is the reason everyone is so fat today
No, the reason everyone is so fat is because they consume more calories than they burn. Today's lifestyles are sedentary compared to previous generations.

Not sure if bait but ill bite either way
thee reason people are fat is because their sedentary life styles and they gorge themselves of massive amounts of calories.

carbs are essential for any athlete

>this shit is the reason everyone is so fat today

ya all those fat Spartans and Vikings who ate diets that were high in grain...

that looks so tasty

eat the GRAINS for bigger GAINS

Saying that the reason for mass obesity is excess calories is like finding a dead body and saying cause of death stopped breathing

that is probably the most retarded analogy i cant even see what youre trying to convey

Yeah this explains why Asians are so fucking fat, especially in the mid-20th century when their diet was 70-80% carbs from white rice

You're not explaining anything when you're saying people are fat because of excess calories. Everybody knows that already. The big question is why are people consuming excess calories now but not 200 years ago.

because food is so abundant in modern western civilization? I wouldn't say that people are obese in countries living in poverty

I guess the lesser amount of physical labour required now could also be a factor

no grains no gains. be it physical or intelectual gains

everybody who's well built or relatively smart eats grains in basically every meal
it's really easy to notice in real life

>this shit is the reason everyone is so fat today
wrong. it's the abundance of sugar and the fact that it is fucking addicitive

Two bagels are about 450 kcal. It's probably the cream cheese and other shit on it that caused you to become a fatty.

Fuck off faggot, you're an idiot and you're weak as fuck.

Yes they are. Hunter-gatherers had a life expectancy of about 30.

WE BESEECH THEE GRAIN OF GAIN

German bread is the best. A loaf like this is to be preferred over "muh brown rice". Bread is only bad when all you eat is American white flour wonderbread.

>grains 200 years ago

A pot of boiled barley kernels with herbs and salt or a dense, filling loaf of brown bread with chunks of rye and whole oat kernels stuck in it

>grains today

Mac n cheese, cheese pizza, cheese and meat sandwiches, beef and cheese tacos, meat-fried rice.... with cheese

Insofar as you're saying that obesity is caused by excessive intake of animal products and dietary fat, I agree (which means OP is wrong). It's really the lack of grains in the diet that is the problem.

no it's meat and calorie dense food like corn syrup

This

>Chicken breast
>Kcal dense

>the keto/paleo war against grains ignites again

This topic is such a great potential fracture point.

>loose evidence for both pro/anti
>lots of speculation
>lots of faggy parties involved that do not hum to reason, but whom do trouble to find their favorite piece of research, like vaggyterians
>on the other side are the "I AM SO EDGY THAT WE SHOULD KILL ALL BEASTS AND EAT THEM ALL"

this pot should not have been stirred.

everyone is so fat because having an abundance of food (calorie dense, cheap and delicious at that) YEAR ROUND and not having to work physically is not what lives of humans have looked like for the past few million years

thinking of jumping on an only meat diet, 80% of the calories would come from fat, the 20 others from protein. how stupid is this?

Who /grains responsibly/ here
I only eat whole grains to fill calories.
If that day I've eaten 1.5kg of veggies, 200g protein and 80g fat I fill the rest with nuts, legumes, and wholegrains

Actually it´s white bread, deepfried "food" and fatty processed meat. Also sodas of any kind are a huge issue.

No, you are fat because you eat too much. Period.

So what are you trying to say? People consume too much calories because grains?

>>mixing red and yellow is the reason you get orange
>red is yellow
This is what you just did.

Yes.

Grains and other high-carbohydrate foods are calorie-dense, not very nutritious, and usually stripped of their natural fiber.

Combine that with how cheap they are, and there you have it.

It is not that stupid perhaps, but there are a lot of unknown variables involved.

The biggest issue is the insulin response, the dietary cholesterol and the "hyper sensitives", who respond badly to dietary cholesterol.

The glycemic index vs insulin load is a big issue, though some loose research also suggests that it may not be so.

Then there are the paleo fags who think that we only ate meat. Who need to be reminded of the fact that europeans managed to digest milk, to adapt to milk ingestion in only 50 thousand years, probably the same amount of time it would have taken to adapt to grain, possibly.

So yea. The best, the most surefire way to go through with this is to see if you are one of these hypersensitives (most likely shitskins) and if you are not, you may not run into any problems with such a diet. Apart from perhaps not having enough glycogen reserves or something like that.

No, I'm not OP.

People in the West consume too many calories because they consume too much fat, animal products, junk food and not enough grains.

People in the West consume a lot less grains than elsewhere in the world where people are slim and trim so immediately you know the grain thing is bullshit.

>People in the West consume too many calories because...

They don't know how to portion control, it has nout to do with how healthy or unhealthy a food is.

>how healthy or unhealthy a food is
on a scale from 0 to 10 you're at 20 points of mental retardation

Do tell

>be me
>german australian brought up in a largely traditional household
>used to take this bread to school home-made, felt like the biggest loser
>begged my mum to get wonder white like all the other kids
>be adult now
>this bread is fucking god-tier, cant find it anywhere
mum always knows best m8s

Fucking retarded. You're retarded.

ITT: Disgustingly obese amerishits who have never in their lives eaten anything other than triple-quarter-pounder-mega-mcmeme-burgers.

Grains are pretty cool op. Its that shit American bread thatll get ya.

Also ITT: yuropoors who's entire daily kcal needs are met by guzzling sandnigger jizz.

Have your wife make it for... nevermind

>Sugary drinks, cooking fats, and a shift towards meat and dairy based diets and away from traditional diets based on unprocessed grains are seen as the major causes of the obesity pandemic.

I was waiting for you to spout vegan lies by mentioning meat and dairy with the rest. What, you think if you obfuscate things with just enough truth we won't notice?

The fact is that seed oils, processed grains, and sugar are absolutely, undeniably the cause of obesity in our society. Unprocessed grains can be healthy, but most people don't eat them anymore. So when we say "grains", we mean modern grain consumptions, not traditional ones. Funny enough, vegans are the ones trying to deny the enormous importance meat and dairy has had in civilization and heslth, especially in the west, while at the same time trying to defend grains for the same.

Nah it's a good analogy you're just stupid

You guys forgot to mention the huge portion sizes that's the real cause of the weight gain

>why would it be why people are fat today
genetic modification

>who /antigrains/ here?

Absolutely. But only for real grains, I eat rice everyday.

>Unprocessed grains can be healthy, but most people don't eat them anymore. So when we say "grains", we mean modern grain consumptions, not traditional ones
Yeah this explains why Asians are so fucking fat, especially in the mid-20th century when their diet was 70-80% carbs from white rice

>le seed oils
>le sugar
Meme overload

ITT: anons don't realize that genetic modification of foods today are designed with max profit in mind to the point where certain proteins and the like are added to foods that make them addictive and make you crave more and more to the point of binge eating

no one binge eats on broccoli and apples, but they binge on pizza, pasta, cookies and cake

why is obesity such a problem today when it wasn't 100 years ago? because the grains you eat today are not the grains your great grandma ate

No it's not, retard. We're just over consuming.

Those foods are binged because they contain addictive properties like specific sugars which spike your dopamine and make you addictive to it, dumb GMO-sceptic scum. Also; obesity is a problem because American and western culture has devolved into an cesspool of overconsumption and where the "progress" of technology makes us implicitly more useless and inactive.

Non one binges on PLAIN pasta or PLAIN bread either. So immediately your whole hypothesis turns out to be horseshit.

>blood sugar is the primary source of appetite and the only trigger that makes people eat more than they should

>no one binges on plain bread or plain pasta
bullshit, pic related

Even if that was true, we have studies showing that forcing fatties to eat a large amount of plain white bread causes weight loss.
youtube.com/watch?v=nP47Yessp_8

>fiber makes you feel full so you don't eat as much
wow completely fucking ground breaking

>skeptics believe that eating white bread affects blood sugar *rolls eyes*
>fiber isn't digested, which means the calories in/calories out rule is violated when there's lots of fiber around
this is the dumbest fucking thing i've ever watched

My gf ate 7 white dinner rolls in 1 day

I eat rye bread every day. On the weekend I eat it with ham, egg and cheese. Delicious

>I was waiting for you to spout vegan lies by mentioning meat and dairy with the rest. What, you think if you obfuscate things with just enough truth we won't notice?

That's what the peer-reviewed research article said. What do vegans have to do with anything?

>loose evidence for both pro/anti
>loose evidence
>for both

Don't be the douchebag in the middle pretending both sides are equally dumb and you're enlightened because you're more intelligent for not having an opinion. Virtually all the scientific data ever gathered on whole grains has shown that they're healthy, which is an overwhelming amount of research. The anti-grain side relies purely on rhetoric about cavemens' diets and misrepresentations about the obesity epidemic like OP.

>Hunter-gatherers had a life expectancy of about 30.
Only because of a high infant mortality.

>this shit is the reason everyone is so fat today
If you have weight issues you have carb (grain etc) issues.

If you do not have weight issues, you can eat whatever you want.

What's "true" depends on which person you are.

Nobody ever said "I eat low carb, never cheat, and can't keep the weight off."

Yes they are dude

>mfw Danish rye bread is superior to German
hehehe

I wonder if there actually exists more than one valid way to eat for humans.

With that I mean, what if both keto (with enough fat) actually may be as healthy as a normal carb included diet.

On double this chan I had brief conversation with a guy who dispelled some things, like the insulin insensitivity of primary meaty diets.

and both camps acknowledge the "hypersensitives" to dietary cholesterol. Meaning that if you arent one, you could perhaps be pretty healthy on a meat diet. Though I suspect some racial thing may be involved.

Wanted to get a cholesterol meter to test it out.

>and both camps acknowledge the "hypersensitives" to dietary cholesterol. Meaning that if you arent one, you could perhaps be pretty healthy on a meat diet

Dietary cholesterol isn't the only cholesterol-raising thing in meat, and meat has nothing like fiber to lower cholesterol, which is at least as important. Unfortunately, many people in the keto gang acknowledge that a low-carb diet doesn't give you low cholesterol, but they delude themselves into thinking that high cholesterol is good. "It must be good, keto is good and keto gives you high cholesterol" is how their thinking goes.

I think there's genetic freaks who do better with weird diets like all meat diets, but it's so uncommon that it's not even really worth mentioning. The vast majority of people doing 80% meat diets are just eating that way because it's tasty, not because they have unique dietary needs or that it's healthier for them.

>Nobody ever said "I eat low carb, never cheat, and can't keep the weight off."
This guy has apparently never been to a low-carb conference

That is why I am wary of both sides. On one side you have the nu cuck males who are like "but all animals are like puppies, we cannot kill them, lets be vile and disgusting human being and try to pervert scientific truth so we can hug animals"

and the other side is

>"well you know what is awesome? Kiling things!@, yea lets kill all things and then eat them all!@, look at those veggiecucks, lol, them being so retarded means that we are so right"

then of course there are the tastefags as you mention, and a bunch of other near mongoloid tards, Perhaps even some people with genuine problems, like migraines that want to solve their problems, and think that perhaps because society is so shit and wrong all the time, a good diet must be extremely different from the norm.

Its hard to tell what is right with so many different variables constantly shouting in your ear.

>People talking about the rise of civilization as if it were a good thing for health
The rise of civilization coincides with a decrease in height, decrease in bone mass, and an increase in dental carries literally everywhere it happened.

How come no one mentions that when you get factory farming of meat you will have in your salami animal parts (like joints etc) that you wouldn't eat if skinning by hand. Can it be that industrial meat just isn't as satisfying as the meat of our parents?

>meat of our parents?

Nice casual parenticide and cannibalism.

>ITT: lots of triggered vegans tossing around memeacience and outright fabrications

You fags are so predictable.

Le carbs are evil is memescience.
Read the sticky.

post ass pls

t. David Duke

Uh, no. People are fat because they eat ridiculous calorie surpluses of extremely fatty and sugary foods due to its wide spread availability and convenience.

I never claimed carbs are evil veganfag.

>hating on based buckwheat

Your delusions are flaring up again.

I never said I was vegan.

Mongos like you need to remember that sugar ≠ carbs

Isn't that technically a seed?

Grains are life. Bread, noodles, rice... Fug

Any grain is also a seed.

But not the converse?

sup