Should the Captain always go down with his ship?

Should the Captain always go down with his ship?

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medium.com/incerto/the-logic-of-risk-taking-107bf41029d3
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_captain_goes_down_with_the_ship
bbc.com/news/world-europe-31430998
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yes a man should always go down with his whore.

I think captains and crew should do everything they feasibly can to ensure the safety of as many passengers as possible before attempting to save their own lives.

At least you shouldn't run away first like that Italian and Korean captain

No, having the captain around for debriefing after the accident happens would be invaluable for people trying to determine what went wrong and how to prevent it in the future.

The captain should do what is in the best interest of his crew and passengers.
Often this means staying on board to coordinate the evacuation better. But if it reaches to point where there is nothing left he can do there is no shame in evacuation, especially if the captain has more experience and knowledge regarding the ocean which in turn could serve the people in the lifeboats

International maritime law reads something such as this.

A captain must stay on board his ship and coordinate evacuation efforts. This must be done until all possible evacuees are gone, if not, the captain is liable to be charged with murder/manslaughter

This is a common practice among the over-educated. Imagine a philosophical scenario like a snapshot. Then ethics just becomes a utilitarian game within that snapshot. Weighing each variable.

Sorry to be rude. But you are naive. What the captain should do to help passengers on a sinking ship? That is not the point. That is just simply not the point.

The point is the weeks leading up to the sinking. The point is about incentive structures. The point is that the captain should have skin in the game. As strong as possible, a stake in the survival of the ship.

A captain should go down with his ship. It is not about helping others board the lifeboats. It is about being held responsible for the fate of his ship. The principle that whatever happens to the ship is his responsibility.

And here is what the over-educated do not want to acknoledge: punishment has a utilitarian benefit. Punishment plays an important role in incentive structures. The captain, should he sink his ship, deserves punishment: death.

It'd be pretty pointless to do so if you'd already evacuated all of the passengers.

>hurr durr talent should willingly dispose itself to suicide instead of redemption by remaining of use

On a side note, what the fuck is up with Italian, Korean and Greek ship captains being such cowardly pussies when there's a disaster on board?

That's correct.

Baka.

No, but they should be last off the ship. But if they've got everyone else to safety, committing suicide out of false honour is retarded

It serves literally no purpose to anyone or anything.

Lmao thats retarded but it made me laugh so whatever

>the captain should go down with the ship
doing so would make learning what happened, and how to avoid it in the future, much harder. Its hard to debrief a dead man.

>t.

If you have ever boarded a ship, you benefited from the rule that a captain should go down with his ship.
medium.com/incerto/the-logic-of-risk-taking-107bf41029d3
The purpose is that the captain should be kept responsible for causing the death of people. Do you know what the word "incentive" means?

>the rule

Which legal code is it found in?

Would you extrapolate this to other positions? There are plenty of jobs where if the guy up the top screws up there a massive consequences, often jail and the end of his career, but we don't actually murder him.

3950514
>All rules are legal

Well where is it found then?

They don't kill a bus driver or a train conductor if he fucks up

What profession leads to worse screw-ups than sinking a ship with passengers, leading to many deaths? Maybe military/political jobs. But death is understood to be a necessary sacrifice there. In ships, there is something particularly insidious about the captain lulling everyone into a false sense of security by being physically present, only to take personal priority when it comes to evacuations.

It is mostly a custom, but another person laid out the official law, that lines up pretty closely with it.

>Do you know what the word "incentive" means?
Do you know what the term "pretentious cocksucker" means?
You're so pressed on this idea of punishment when there's a plethora of other things that are entirely outside of a captain's control. He is but only human and allowed to be vulnerable to mistakes and unfortunate happenings. By your logic, if a terrorist took over a plane and killed a passenger in the process, the pilot should do most honorabu thing and kill himself. This isn't japan, nor is our collective moral consciousness enriched by someone dying without purpose.

Eh, good point, but still not the same thing. Accidents are sudden. If a captain evacuates a ship, he's taking a "spot on the lifeboat" away from someone else. For what it's worth, the captain should be able to evacuate when everyone else has (then be charged for the property damage).

...

In the US navy, it is the rule that a captain of a ship is responsible for whatever happens, whether or not you can point direct "blame" per so, or not. Look at the guy who got fired recently because two navy ships crashed under his watch. Not his fault. But in the navy, if anything under your command fucks up, it's taken as a strike against you. Is that fucked up? Maybe, but they know what they're getting themselves into.

Good for the US Navy, don't give a shit.

>custom

According to who?

>that posted maritime law

Not even remotely similar to what you're proposing. Staying until the evacuation is completed (part of the job of a captain) is not the same as pointlessly dying because a boat sunk.

In theory, plenty. There are other large vehicles like planes and trains that can hold hundreds of passengers. You already said military or politics, but other areas people doing a shitty job can indirectly kill hundreds.
If you're job is to inspect the structural integrity of a bridge and you half ass it and it collapses at peak hour, you will get fired and could face serious charges, but they don't make you go down with the bridge. There's also things like working with contagious disease or radioactive materials, and letting that shit through quarantine.

When I was a captain in the army I once broke my rifle and they took the cost of a new one out of my pay. Now I understand why a captain in the navy goes down with the ship

tl;dr ur a fggt

Typical over-educated response.

>over-educated

There is no such thing. Knowledge is both power and a virtue.

Nationality doesn't matter. Statistically a majority of ship captains in the past 150 years do not go down with the ship nor do they issue effective orders to evacuate passengers before crew members.

Captains and crew, statistically speaking, look out for themselves (and each other) first.

Yes, the captain should go down with the ship, albeit once it is underwater he should be free to swim away. I don't expect the captain to literally accompany the ship to the ocean floor, but rather he must remain standing on it until it is covered by a layer of water.

If literally everybody has left the vessel, then sure he can leave early. He better be pretty fucking certain that everybody is safe, though.

yes, yes, yes, yes, yes
user you rule, academic butthurt proves it

>The captain, should he sink his ship, deserves punishment: death.
Why do this instead of submitting to review and punishment by the proper authorities? Would do a lot more than just honrabu sudoku. It's precisely because a captain is so responsible that they should not take justice into their own hands, even when the punishment is on themselves.

>he's taking a "spot on the lifeboat" away from someone else
>modern ships are all like the Titanic and don't carry enough lifeboats for every passenger to have a space

No, trained personnel like this doesn't grow on trees after all.

He should always put himself first

I wonder who could be behind this post

Kek

Why didn't he just put his hat on the guy nearest to him and be like "You the captain now"..?

Could've saved his life desu

It's a central element of the Zapp Brannigan school of ship captaincy.

at least he should be the last to leave
pic related is the captain of the Belgrano, 1982

You have autism.

fpbp

Yeah, since he's financially responsible and has no way of ever paying it off. Clean honorable death v rotting in debtor's prison.

GOTCHA
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T
C
H
A

so what?
>AHHHH YOU HAVE TO DO WHATEVER I SAY IS USEFUL
no I don't lmao

Professional mariner here. Fuck no. This isn't and never was a nautical tradition, the entire "hurrr durrrr captain goes down with the ship" meme stems from the Titanic. The captain is always expected to be the last one off the ship because he needs to oversee the evacuation process, but dying with your piece of shit tin can is retarded. Idk maybe in the naval service I can see it but in the merchant service I have never sailed on one of these pieces of shit I even enjoyed living on, there's no way in hell I'm going to die on one.

No

The captain isn't supposed to go down with the ship. He is supposed to abandon ship only at the end of the evacuation. That's because the captain's duty is to coordinate the evacuation, and he can't do that if he's evacuating himself. It also has the role of more closely integrating the ship's crew, as it shows the captain as a person with a crucial role in the ship's hierarchy, which he keeps performing even under risk of death (when the ship is sinking, sometimes not everyone has time to evacuate, and if the captain is to stay coordinating the evacuation for as long as it is possible to carry out, he puts himself at great risk).

got a good laugh out of this one

>this is your brain on /pol/

bullshit!
the captain must touch the bottom of the sea with his toe before he can honorably swim away.

The government believes that because it spends money training you, it owns you, and as such you have no right to kill yourself or willingly allow yourself to die, especially if you're an officer. I don't know how it is now, but I was taught that (as an officer) if everyone under me had to die for me to escape to safety, I needed to make it happen. It's one of the reasons I refused to allow my children to enlist.

Go drown on a boat then faggot lmao

>this is your brain on soy

That thing on the right won't reproduce.

...

Law of the Sea, matey.

>If a captain evacuates a ship, he's taking a "spot on the lifeboat" away from someone else.

Well that's an interesting totally made up statement.

>There are other large vehicles like planes

Does the captain always go down with the plane?

Utter unmitigated poop.

Honor and Neptune';s Code both require the Captain to set both feet firmly on the sea bottom and inhale at least 4 times. After this, he may honorably remain dead for a period of time not to exceed forever..

why did you put spot on the lifeboat in quotes? Is it a euphemism for something or do you think spot on the lifeboat is some kind of obscure phrase?

meant for

I work on a container ship, there are procedures. Captain is leaving the ship with the rest of the crew when there is no chance of saving it from sinking/fire

If it's his fault, yeah

Cringy /Pol/ meme aside, why Nicky?

Only when sober

>Nicolas II
>grandfather

I have bad news for you user...

should be opposite

t. Schettino

That was exactly the justification given by Schettino after half-sinking his ship. “I’m coordinating the efforts from the outside”. If the navy followed your logic, coward captains could abandon their ships and excuse themselves by saying that was a better way to assist the passengers and crew.

>charged with murder/manslaughter
has this happened recently?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_captain_goes_down_with_the_ship

there are some examples,yo.

Every ocean going vessel is required to have enough space in lifeboats and rafts for every person, as well as providing life vests

better to stay alive desu, unless the worlds better off without you, in which case, good fucking riddens cunt

Why not debrief the captain and then execute him, accomplish both?

bbc.com/news/world-europe-31430998

Agreed. No need to off yourself unless it's a question of spaces on the lifeboats.