Need some advice here Veeky Forums

I'm doing SS (not GOMAD). I've failed my squats for the third time and is time to deload I guess. My question is about the timing. I've been doing this program for about 14 weeks. My squat started at 95lbs and I'm stuck at 285 for 3x3. My other lifts are also reaching the point where I'll have to deload and work back up. At 14 weeks, is this where I should be? Am I doing this right? When can I expect to stop making linear progression?

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unkess youre like 300 lbs, move to an intermediate program

if you like SS, youll like texas method

>When can I expect to stop making linear progression?
Typically, 3-9 months. It varies widely. Unless you started doing something differently recently, you've probably hit the end of linear progression.

The Texas Method is the standard recommendation for people who finished SS.

You can also check your strength on the tables here:

startingstrength.com/files/standards.pdf

If you are category 3 or higher, you've finished your noob gains. If you're category 1 or lower, you're still can make noob gains.

>If you are category 3 or higher, you've finished your noob gains. If you're category 1 or lower, you're still can make noob gains.
This is fucking retarded.

You've finished noob gains when you can't progress on a simple LP program anymore.
If you've deloaded as per the program, and you still can't progress, you need to move on to different programming.
Texas Method is fucking shit, so don't do that.
The intermediate bench + deadlift + squat from gnuckols 28 free programs (strengtheory.com) are pretty good.

>obvs doesnt have much experience judging programs

>Says it's retarded
>Doesn't give a reason why
Are you in category 1?

>Texas Method is fucking shit
Why?

I actually do.

It only works for more than a few weeks if you're young, male, eat a lot, are roughly of average height and weight, have an athletic background and/or have good genetics.
Otherwise, you'll just burn out after a month or so, and make no progress, perhaps even regress.

Even Lascek himself has said that the original book on TM had some fundamental flaws. The second book is a bit better.

It's retarded because why stop making gains if you still can?
Because some strength table says so?
No, you stop a program when you stop progressing on it. (assuming your recovery is adequate)
This way people with shit genetics won't burn out trying to do a program that'll never work for them, and people with good genetics won't impair their strength progress prematurely.

>Doesn't have any substantial criticisms of the Texas Method
You're just asserting that it's wrong. Do you have any actual reasons it is wrong?

Moron.

I weight 345lbs . . .

Lascek explains it a bit in the preface of his second book.

As to why it doesn't work for many people, one day of "high" volume just isn't enough to keep the weights on intensity day progressing.
You'll notice that you need to increase the weights on volume day so quickly, that they become roughly the same as the weights on intensity day. And that's it, you can't go on from there.

If you don't fall in the category I mentioned earlier, feel free to do TM and burn out.
Have fun, mate.

I'm category 1 on everything except squats where I'm a category 2. I guess I'll keep riding the noob gains train.

Your first priority should be weightloss. That will make it hard to progress in any program. Just saying.

Shhheeeiiittt. I've made some awesome strength gains so far. I'm not buying into the cut/bulk meme. I'm progressing in my strength, that's my first priority. I haven't lost weight but I've definitely lost fat. My clothes fit better, my gut is smaller. I'll cut weight when I reach my strength goals.

You can't ride the noob gains train if you can't make anymore noob gains...
Don't judge whether you can make progress on some dumb table.

This.

You're fucking fat, OP.

No shit I'm fat. You think I don't see myself in the mirror. If you had been paying attention to my original post I was attempting to start discussion about the timing of my deload within the scheme of the program. I have to deload my squat for the first time. I will have to deload my bench after next B session if I can't hit 3x5. I have two more sessions to break through on OHP and powerclean before deloading. My deadlift is so progressing. I'm not yet unable to make linear progression. I just wanted some insight on how much longer I can expect to be able to considering that I am going to deload 3 times before switching the program.

> I've made some awesome strength gains so far.
There are two types of gains

1) Neuro-muscular, where your nervous system gets better at performing the movement with heavier weight

2) Hypertrophy, where your muscles grow in size/strength

Chances are, you've seen a lot of 1, and not a lot of 2. And you won't see much of 2 until you eat a lot of food.

And you don't want to eat a lot of food until you're at a proper weight.

Neuromuscular gains is exactly what I've been experiencing. I'm eating at a 500 calorie deficit. I'm not trying to gain anymore weight, I'm fat as fatass. Hypertrophy can come later, after I cut weight. I know that toss is a multi-year process. I'm in it for the long haul. I did lose 40 pounds before starting weight training doing nothing but cardio so I feel like that helped alot.

*this

You can always add more sets.

If you aren't having trouble recovering, try doing bench, OHP, and squat for 5x5.

Alternately, you could add accessories that might help your man lifts. Tricep Extensions, Dips, Curls, Pullups, et cetera.

If you had been paying attention to any of my posts, you would've realized why questions like "is this where I should be?" are wrong.
And that questions like "When can I expect to stop making linear progression?" can't really be answered, because it depends on your body (genetics).

Here, read the sections "stalling" and "strength and programming" *carefully*
startingstrength.com/get-started/faq

Read the last section multiple times to get it through.

>I just wanted some insight on how much longer I can expect to be able to considering that I am going to deload 3 times before switching the program.
This is different from what you were asking in the opening post.
Generally, after people have deloaded once, it won't be long before they stop progressing for good.
A few weeks, maybe a month.

Thanks. That will help.

Also, I'm sorry I called you fucking fat.
Damn tumblr posts have made me forget most overweight people actually know it's bad to be overweight and want to change, but it's just hard for them.
Good luck.

count calories and don't even worry too much about building muscle at that stage. if i was 345 i'd be squatting and benching the fucking bar and focusing way more on taking walks and using a cal count app

I do track my calories, track my macros, and I do take walks. Thanks for the profoundly insightful advice.

It's okay the tumblrfats ruin it for all of us. I spent alot of my life drinking, doing drugs, and eating all while being very sedentary and working in the food business. I'm drug free now, seldom drink alcohol, and have an active job away from food. I know I'm fat but I know that I can do better. That's what I'm trying to do before I get too old.

Go to Black Iron Beast and pick 5/3/1 for conditioning.

Great that you're on a good path, keep it up.

If you have a 500 cal/day deficit, you'll lose 1 pound a week. You probably should be shooting for 2 pounds a week. That will halve the time it takes for you to get to a proper weight.

You can also do a lot of cardio.

Wtf are your strength goals if you are squatting 285? Wouldn't you rather be a healthy weight and look decent?

Maybe he wants to be a powerlifter.

I'd like to squat 300+ for 5. I'll look good when I'm done. It's going to take awhile, I'm in it to win it. I'm not in it for aesthetics, I'm in it to get healthier and be stronger so I can still get around when I'm old. This includes losing weight. All in due time.

this guy is absolutely right and you newfags should listen to him

the technical reason TM isn't the best choice for most of you:
texas method stifles the development of your work capacity by forcing you to peak at the end of each WEEK and try to hit a new max

for a truly intermediate lifter this is insane, the entire point of intermediate training is to increase your ability to handle volume

with TM, you are fairly limited in your ability to accumulate volume, because significant fatigue will not go away by friday and you will not PR

this limits the amount of volume you can use, which is especially problematic for bench press

also one fatigued working set of deadlift is shit

compare this to something like Sheiko which hits you with high volume and fatigue over a month or two, and then tapers you down to let you hit new PRs

do candito 6 week if you're foolish and brave, or some greg nuckols programs from the 28 free ones, or maybe Sheiko intermediate if you want to get into PL (great for bench)

No. I'd actually like to get into strongman but that will be about 2 - 3 years from now.

anecdotally: Texas Method works like a charm for people who aren't yet truly done with linear progression, but for who it has slowed down a fair amount

it also works for genetics outliers that get an adaptation with little volume (and yes, 5x5 is little volume - TM is a low volume program, it just distributes this volume in an extremely silly fashion for most people)

Agreed.

All of the popular Internet routines such as SS, SL, ICF, TM and whatever are just peaking routines where you trade away the things that would make you better - hypertrophy, conditioning, work capacity and coordination - just to realise your CURRENT strength potential. After a year of doing those routines you are literally no better off when you started. You may or may not have learned how to move more weight but you haven't learned how to build that strength. Putting on a belt, sleeves/wraps and snorting amoniac before your squat work-sets is not impressive, it's pathetic.

The notion of "intermediate" training is retarded - you are either a beginner or advanced and it has more to do with knowledge and experience. Just do something that has sound principles and sane progression behind it such as 5/3/1, Sheiko, Greg Nuckols free programs, Candito 6wk or whatever the fuck.

TM works like a charm for squats and deadlifts because you can handle more weight on those exercises, hence you accumulate more volume. 5x5s are squat routines because they flat-out won't work for the upper body and don't work for the upper body because it takes time and effort to actually build upper-body strength.

>doesnt read about how the program manages volume
>assumes it doesnt
>compares it to an advanced program

confirmed for retard

so... intermediates

since its a goddamned intermediate program

you fucking moron

Glad to see you are eating at a deficit. I'm not sure if losing massive amounts of weight fucks with your linear progression. That seems to be the question you should be asking.

What's an "advanced" program?

monthly (or longer) periods to make progress steps rather than weekly or every workout. may involve explicit autoregulation and rotation of exercises. early examplea include linear periodization where you ramp up volume and down intensity (or vice versa) over a month then start over.

where you build load over a series of weeks of workouts rather than relying on a single workout to drive progress and take intentional deload periods rather than continuing to push linear gains between cycles.

So after around 6 months to a year a trainee goes from "beginner" to "intermediate" to "advanced"? I hope you realise how ridiculous this sounds.

And yet you end up doing the same thing trying to "milk the beginner gains" because your body simply doesn't have the needed muscle to handle the constant increase in intensity.

go read a serious book on program design

supertraining, some of the russian periodization stuff, or, hell, even pracrical programming which has a full and detailed description of everything from the texas merhod to pendlays hormone optimization stuff.

even a google search could answer your question tho

youve sort of put your head up your ass and decided that the shit is coming feom someonw else

you progress when you need to progress. timeframe is barely relevant beyond a noob gets about 6 mos, and an intermediate about 2 years, bigger workouts with more volume and load and more rest for recovery as you progress.

go read a proper training book or a sports science journal or something other than whatever goober's free training site youve got a hard on for this week.

Linear periodization and conjugate training were developed for Soviet kids. Are these "advanced" lifters?

yes, theyre advanced if they require that much variation for recovery, stimulus and progress

it depends on training experience, not age

>you progress when you need to progress
So it's the trainee and not the program now? Do you want the textbook definition for a beginner athlete in ANY sport:

Someone lacking in hypertrophy, work capacity, coordination, balance and mental toughness.

Because a beginner has such a high response to training they should be focusing on improving ALL of these qualities AT THE SAME TIME because they simply can. They shouldn't be specialising in maximum strength so early not because they can't but because it's stupid as they don't have the ability to have high maximum strength.

This is something understood by anyone who has ever done some physical activity in their life.

We are talking about children aged 10-14. These are not "advanced" lifters. Hey, how about this - bodybuilders that use DoggCrap (essentially an LP) and elite powerlifters using the Cube, Juggernaut or Westside - "intermediate" programs?

You need moar protein fast desu.

You may want to try beet juice, or eating like a beet everyday for a week before you try to push through that again. But I would back off just a little bit first.

I know it sounds crazy but I started juicing when I was trying to reach 400x5 last year. I cut out sugar and gluten, took a shit ton of vitamin C, plus the juice (spinach or carrots, blue berries and beets, maybe other fruit) a few times a week, and I'm positive it help put me over my previous limit. Its like my blood was stronger or something.

You may not think its a diet issue, but if its not in technique or lack of sleep/genetics (reaching 300 on squat shouldn't be for a man) then its definitely a diet thing.

I really haven't lost a "massive" amount of weight. Maybe 15 lbs while I've been lifting. It may be affected by eating at a deficit bit like I said, I'm not trying to get any fatter.

I know I don't sleep enough. It's impossible with my work schedule. That's what's fucking me. That and my age, I'm 36.

General question here. If you diet down and go on a cut and lose some strength can you then back on a linear progression model?

Yeah.

Hmmmm interesting.

Where can I find the SS program? It doesn't show up on google for me.

it's laid out pretty clearly in Mein Kampf

Fucking retard could have helped me instead of memeing. I wish you get fat like me and see how it is

Bill Starr used LPs to get football players' strength back (or some of it) after the summer break. In reality, you can use whatever you want.

Hey buddy just some friendly advice, don't eat that chip on your shoulder